Why is WW fighting street levelers from other heroes rogue galleries lately?

[SiegePerilous02]

Not having his weaknesses is not the same thing as not having weaknesses or limits of her own.

And aside from when Cheetah took down the League in Johns's run, when has Superman ever jobbed to WW villains?

She has limits but none that as easily exploitable. Nobody wants to deal with the tying bracelets together thing (with good reason) and the piercing weapons isn't consistent and a lot of fans don't want to deal with it either. Aside from those two things which are divisive, what clear weaknesses does she have on the level of Kryptonite or a red sun?

Cheetah kicked his ass in the Brave and the Bold cartoon, and there is Sebastian Ballesteros beating him up. Circe's also brainwashed him a couple times. Which should be in their wheelhouse, but it IS done as a way to prop them up the same as Mongul defeating Wonder Woman.

[Agent Z]

She has limits but none that as easily exploitable. Nobody wants to deal with the tying bracelets together thing (with good reason) and the piercing weapons isn't consistent and a lot of fans don't want to deal with it either. Aside from those two things which are divisive, what clear weaknesses does she have on the level of Kryptonite or a red sun?

Magic and mystical weapons. She's been killed twice by those.

[SiegePerilous02]

Magic and mystical weapons. She's been killed twice by those.

But are those explicit weaknesses unique to her, or does she just not have a special immunity to them? Magic as a weakness has never been made as consistently big of a deal for her as it is for the Kryptonians. It actually SHOULD be an advantage she has over them, one of her arch enemies is Circe after all so she has more experience with it.

[achilles]

I've seen Supergirl and Powergirl for that matter get put on their butts to many times by Wondy to be considered on par with her physically, sometimes even by one hit KOs. I don't think she should be stronger then Superman, equal is what the intent was, and wasn't there a story that explained why Superman consistently beat other Kryptonians; like he was basically the super solider equivalent to a Kryponian? But that's an off topic question.

What really sets Diana apart from other heavy hitters was her skill. This is a woman with combat speeds on par with Flash on her best days. Someone that even Batman considers to be the greatest melee fighter in the world. I'm annoyed and bored reading a story where Diana is physically a little more impressive then Deathstroke, I'm more so pissed that she losses fights to minor no name villains or cannon fodder. I mean 3000+ years of amazon training and experience amounts to nothing I suppose. DC's greatest warrior and they can't even let her win fights.

Diana can have the physical stats of a God, the skills of a world class fighter, and OP gear; she can have all of that and still have drama, suspense, and struggle in her stories. All it takes is a bit of creativity.

I can't speak as to Supergirl, but Diana has never one punched PG, or indeed overpowered her; she's always won with skill, mostly a headlock, which PG seems to have as her weakness more than Kryptonite. And...there's no getting around Diana's own comments on that very subject, "at least as fast and as strong as I am".

But more generally, I think the sword and shield should go, and leave Diana with her lasso, and other classic gear. And bring back the bullet blocking deal as a real thing again, one she needs to do. All that sets her apart from every other mega-super in the DCU. As for fighting street level people and having difficulty with them....er, no. I personally don't favor Batman dropping the higher level supers, so it doesn't work for me that Diana should ever have trouble with street level bad guys. Unless the trouble lies in finding them. As for Vertigo...I don't think his powers should give anyone like Diana any problem, for reasons I won't get into as they'd take too long to list.

[WonderLight789]

I can't speak as to Supergirl, but Diana has never one punched PG, or indeed overpowered her; she's always won with skill, mostly a headlock, which PG seems to have as her weakness more than Kryptonite. And...there's no getting around Diana's own comments on that very subject, "at least as fast and as strong as I am".

But more generally, I think the sword and shield should go, and leave Diana with her lasso, and other classic gear. And bring back the bullet blocking deal as a real thing again, one she needs to do. All that sets her apart from every other mega-super in the DCU. As for fighting street level people and having difficulty with them....er, no. I personally don't favor Batman dropping the higher level supers, so it doesn't work for me that Diana should ever have trouble with street level bad guys. Unless the trouble lies in finding them. As for Vertigo...I don't think his powers should give anyone like Diana any problem, for reasons I won't get into as they'd take too long to list.

I don't remember WW one punching pg. But i do remember that she was one hell of a match for pg physically when they have fought. Based on that and overall feats. It is safe to say that WW is just as strong if not stronger than pg. And as years have gone by. DC has been more active in putting WW in the title of strongest female hero.

[WonderLight789]

Yeah of course it applies to Wonder Woman too. But i don't try to bring her down a notch, i try to bring her up millions of notches as it stands, all i am saying is that i don't think if Superman and by extension Supergirl could lift the eart and Wonder Woman just the venus, but as trade off could Wonder Woman fight at 3,3 times the speed of light in an effective way and Superman and by extensions Supergirl just at 3 times the speed of light. I am well aware that Martson has specifically said all the strenght of Superman, but i don't even think he would have a problem with my proposal.



I however have to disagree with this, DC has contradicted their own words often enough, and by the same token would it be head canon without too much basis to talk about modern Supergirl being stronger than modern Wonder Woman, especially by looking at who is portrayed as the strongest female superhero with statements and suggestions from DC.

And i have also disagree about the rest, because you are not talking about Superman being physically a bit stronger than Wonder Woman, you are talking about outright making Superman superior to Wonder Woman because he would b otherwise allegedly inferior due to his weaknesses. This is strongly contradicted in a time were it has been not long that Wonder Woman's often existing weakness to weapons of the piercing kind, was going so far that get shot by regular bullets got portrayed as life-threatening event, even in a very bad context scene were the same bullets first bounced off Superman and with the incredible silly explanation that Wonder Woman could not react to indirect attacks. And if we are honest, being outright inferior puts Wonder Woman not even on the second but often enough on the last place of the heavy hitters in the Justice League in modern times, which opens another can of worms. Last but not least should be Superman's weaknesses not even common enough for this argument, it just sometimes looks like that because of bad writing, red suns should be no typical problem for obvious reasons, kryptonite should be a very rare material, and magic is not even meant to be a hard counter in general like any Superman fan could explain. In fact should Superman outright lose any direct enconuter with Wonder Woman if magic would be a big enough weakness to jusify making Superman superior, Wonder Woman is a magical beig, with magical weapons, who even uses more dire magic like Zeus magical lightning now and then. But even Shazam or Black Adam are just portrayed as threats, but not as certain loses for him.

Of course has Wonder Woman bigger problems, but the idea of making her outright inferior to Superman is part of the same problems, and Wonder Woman's fights with Doomsday as example, or half canon/alternative world fights with Superman or Bizzaro as other example are usually more impactful and worse than the few times Superman jobbed to Wonder Woman villains. I am talking about storylines like this blatant insult to Wonder Woman as a character as example:





This is also not truly a good argument in this case, looking at Flash's stupidly wide array of speed force powers and possibilities like the infinite mass punch, is Cheetah like she is portrayed most often far more of a character who can only do that one thing than Flash himself. And as a physical challenge would she just make sense in a higher echelon of speed than Wonder Woman or Superman, and i don't think it would be unfair to let her crack the speed force level in parts because she has still far less powers. It could get even explained with divine magic, the god wave was even the source of the speed force in the past, and we saw full blown gods like Mercury/Hermes do things like speed stealing:

Based on current events. DC hsas made it clearer than ever that they view WW as the strongest female hero over supergirl. All i'm saying is that WW shouldn't need to be brought down a notch. While others still enjoy theeir powers in big ways. Something Diana hasn't had in a while. I'm not even asking to see her wrecking superman. I just want to see what DC says she is(and used to be). And that is a powerhouse Diana. I want to feel the epic and powerful action in big adventures. DC keeps saying how she is so powerful and skill, yet they show almost nothing outside of sword and shield. My issue is that i'm tired of empty promises. Tired of being deceived by DC. If they want Super human xena, fine i like xena. But i want them to be honest. Don't want them to keep promesing things that aren't their real intentions for the character. Don't keep telling us that she is very poewerful Goddess that can face big threats on her own, only to constantly water down her power in any event that would call for her so called Godly power.

[SiegePerilous02]

Yeah of course it applies to Wonder Woman too. But i don't try to bring her down a notch, i try to bring her up millions of notches as it stands, all i am saying is that i don't think if Superman and by extension Supergirl could lift the eart and Wonder Woman just the venus, but as trade off could Wonder Woman fight at 3,3 times the speed of light in an effective way and Superman and by extensions Supergirl just at 3 times the speed of light. I am well aware that Martson has specifically said all the strenght of Superman, but i don't even think he would have a problem with my proposal.

I'd be fine with this.

I however have to disagree with this, DC has contradicted their own words often enough, and by the same token would it be head canon without too much basis to talk about modern Supergirl being stronger than modern Wonder Woman, especially by looking at who is portrayed as the strongest female superhero with statements and suggestions from DC.

By the same token, if they've contradicted their words often enough, we can't really trust them when they say they view Wonder Woman as the strongest female either because they aren't very consistent with it.

And I'm not just talking about modern Supergirl, but the character's entire history. Pre-COIE Kara (who was allowed to age and be older than she's ever been in modern times) was portrayed stronger than she is a lot of the time in modern times. And was often billed as Earth's mightiest champion after Superman, which leads us to infer that she is stronger than Wonder Woman. We then get into weird things like COIE with Kara's very existence and status quo being in doubt, along with being de-aged. But at one point, the status quo was that Supergirl was stronger.

And i have also disagree about the rest, because you are not talking about Superman being physically a bit stronger than Wonder Woman, you are talking about outright making Superman superior to Wonder Woman because he would b otherwise allegedly inferior due to his weaknesses. This is strongly contradicted in a time were it has been not long that Wonder Woman's often existing weakness to weapons of the piercing kind, was going so far that get shot by regular bullets got portrayed as life-threatening event, even in a very bad context scene were the same bullets first bounced off Superman and with the incredible silly explanation that Wonder Woman could not react to indirect attacks. And if we are honest, being outright inferior puts Wonder Woman not even on the second but often enough on the last place of the heavy hitters in the Justice League in modern times, which opens another can of worms. Last but not least should be Superman's weaknesses not even common enough for this argument, it just sometimes looks like that because of bad writing, red suns should be no typical problem for obvious reasons, kryptonite should be a very rare material, and magic is not even meant to be a hard counter in general like any Superman fan could explain. In fact should Superman outright lose any direct enconuter with Wonder Woman if magic would be a big enough weakness to jusify making Superman superior, Wonder Woman is a magical beig, with magical weapons, who even uses more dire magic like Zeus magical lightning now and then. But even Shazam or Black Adam are just portrayed as threats, but not as certain loses for him.

You know that Superman's weaknesses to magic, red sun and Kryptonite appear even in the modern day far more frequently than Wonder Woman getting shot, right? The scene where she was shot in in JL was bad, but that I think is more due to her creator giving her the bullets and bracelets thing, in turn leading creators to wonder why she doesn't just let them bounce off her like Superman, which in turn leads to the conclusion that bullets can hurt her. And no, her being second doesn't automatically lead to her being in last place as the heavy hitter in modern times. If they can't write Wonder Woman well in that capacity, what makes you think she will get treated any better if they create the firm rule she is as equal to him?

Yes, she has magical tools. That's why if they fought 10 times, she'd win 5 of the fights due to her superior combat training and tools balancing out the small gap in strength, and the strength she has should allow her to hurt him with her blows (not something a lot of people can brag about). But the stance that she is exactly equal to Superman in strength (and not slightly weaker) isn't consistent enough to be anything but headcanon fanfic, and it's not the DC universe's fault that it isn't lining up with that headcanon. Marston's intentions are irrelevant because he only had the character for her first decade, and she's long out of his hands and in a shared universe he didn't create. It sucks, but it's reality.

[WonderLight789]

I'd be fine with this.



By the same token, if they've contradicted their words often enough, we can't really trust them when they say they view Wonder Woman as the strongest female either because they aren't very consistent with it.

And I'm not just talking about modern Supergirl, but the character's entire history. Pre-COIE Kara (who was allowed to age and be older than she's ever been in modern times) was portrayed stronger than she is a lot of the time in modern times. And was often billed as Earth's mightiest champion after Superman, which leads us to infer that she is stronger than Wonder Woman. We then get into weird things like COIE with Kara's very existence and status quo being in doubt, along with being de-aged. But at one point, the status quo was that Supergirl was stronger.



You know that Superman's weaknesses to magic, red sun and Kryptonite appear even in the modern day far more frequently than Wonder Woman getting shot, right? The scene where she was shot in in JL was bad, but that I think is more due to her creator giving her the bullets and bracelets thing, in turn leading creators to wonder why she doesn't just let them bounce off her like Superman, which in turn leads to the conclusion that bullets can hurt her. And no, her being second doesn't automatically lead to her being in last place as the heavy hitter in modern times. If they can't write Wonder Woman well in that capacity, what makes you think she will get treated any better if they create the firm rule she is as equal to him?

Yes, she has magical tools. That's why if they fought 10 times, she'd win 5 of the fights due to her superior combat training and tools balancing out the small gap in strength, and the strength she has should allow her to hurt him with her blows (not something a lot of people can brag about). But the stance that she is exactly equal to Superman in strength (and not slightly weaker) isn't consistent enough to be anything but headcanon fanfic, and it's not the DC universe's fault that it isn't lining up with that headcanon. Marston's intentions are irrelevant because he only had the character for her first decade, and she's long out of his hands and in a shared universe he didn't create. It sucks, but it's reality.

Talking about the status quo. I have seen WW being called strongest female by DC many times. Why shouldn't WW be the strongest female? The most iconic powerhouse female hero in comics can't even have that? I don't understand your view. You say she must be weaker than superman. And she must be weaker than sg. Basically always second best but never the best, is what you seem to want for her. And if we talk about Pre Crisis. Diana used to perform crazy strength feats back then too. She should be just as strong as kryptonans. Because not only based on Marston. Based on how DC promotes her and calls her a mighty God in line with superman power level, she should be up there. She shouldn't be weaker.

Also. WW doesn't get treated properly today being second or third best. That is also the problem. We have seen the results of her not being as strong as sm. The effort into her power leve portrayal is lacking. So of course a lot off fans want better. Aka making her more in line with superman power. You say if they can't write her well as second best, nothing gives us the guarantee that making her equal to sm would help. And to that i say it's worth the try. Because if being second best means we have to settle for the mess we currently have, then a lot of us don't want it.

[achilles]

I don't remember WW one punching pg. But i do remember that she was one hell of a match for pg physically when they have fought. Based on that and overall feats. It is safe to say that WW is just as strong if not stronger than pg. And as years have gone by. DC has been more active in putting WW in the title of strongest female hero.

I'd say considering it's also seen PG pretty much wreck Diana blood and all before Diana wins....which was always the same way, headlock, which others also do on PG. Diana is just a better fighter than PG, though Diana herself says PG is good, but not someone like her who spent her life training to fight. Physically, they seem well matched, with those words of Diana's, (which were in reference to PG), backing that up. r That was in fact the seeming point of their last fight, that Diana couldn't overpower Karen, but had to outskill her, which of course she does once she realizes that.

But a character like that, who does beat Kryptonians in fights regularly, wouldn't have any trouble at all with anyone not a high level super. There, steered it back on course...

[SiegePerilous02]

Talking about the status quo. I have seen WW being called strongest female by DC many times. Why shouldn't WW be the strongest female? The most iconic powerhouse female hero in comics can't even have that? I don't understand your view. You say she must be weaker than superman. And she must be weaker than sg. Basically always second best but never the best, is what you seem to want for her. And if we talk about Pre Crisis. Diana used to perform crazy strength feats back then too. She should be just as strong as kryptonans. Because not only based on Marston. Based on how DC promotes her and calls her a mighty God in line with superman power level, she should be up there. She shouldn't be weaker.

And there have been times when the stories didn't reflect that, mainly in the pre-Crisis Silver/Bronze Age. I'm not saying she shouldn't be DC's strongest female, just that the evidence in some of the stories suggests that Supergirl is around the same level if not sometimes more depending on what era we're looking at. Why can't Supergirl be considered the strongest female? The truth is we just like Wonder Woman more, and we stick by that stance even if the evidence doesn't always support it. Even though Supergirl fans, in the same debate, would probably disagree and provide evidence to the contrary. Like Supergirl could fly so fast she broke through the time barrier and traveled back to Krypton's past, is that something Wonder Woman has ever done?

She's weaker than Superman because she has been portrayed that way for the vast majority of publication history. Previous debates on this forum on this topic had scans of Superboy accomplishing similar feats as Wonder Woman if not greater ones, so this is not a new thing. You're saying you don't want her to be weaker than Superman, but that's not the reality of the situation. It's not necessarily that I want it that way, it's what it is and mostly always has been. And I became a fan of the character anyway, nor do I view her as a weakling because she's not quite as strong. All the stuff you're saying is just empty promotion seldom backed up by the stories themselves, which is more important. And even if she's slightly weaker, concluding that she isn't one of the top tier powerhouses and can't take him in a fight isn't logical, because she is and she can.

Also. WW doesn't get treated properly today being second or third best. That is also the problem. We have seen the results of her not being as strong as sm. The effort into her power leve portrayal is lacking. So of course a lot off fans want better. Aka making her more in line with superman power. You say if they can't write her well as second best, nothing gives us the guarantee that making her equal to sm would help. And to that i say it's worth the try. Because if being second best means we have to settle for the mess we currently have, then a lot of us don't want it.

She's been second best (and not with a wide gap) since the Golden age throughout post-Crisis, it hasn't really proved that much of a problem for her powerhouse feats in the past. I don't get why it suddenly is now if that's the reason. It's mainly that current writers suck with the character, and that won't change not matter how many empty "she's as strong as Superman" statements they put out. Because they don't consistently give a crap about him either.

[WonderLight789]

I'd say considering it's also seen PG pretty much wreck Diana blood and all before Diana wins....which was always the same way, headlock, which others also do on PG. Diana is just a better fighter than PG, though Diana herself says PG is good, but not someone like her who spent her life training to fight. Physically, they seem well matched, with those words of Diana's, (which were in reference to PG), backing that up. r That was in fact the seeming point of their last fight, that Diana couldn't overpower Karen, but had to outskill her, which of course she does once she realizes that.

But a character like that, who does beat Kryptonians in fights regularly, wouldn't have any trouble at all with anyone not a high level super. There, steered it back on course...

Making WW bleed doesn't put pg in a higher level. She should be strong enough to do that. It doesn't make her stronger. As the comic said they are power peers.

[WonderLight789]

And there have been times when the stories didn't reflect that, mainly in the pre-Crisis Silver/Bronze Age. I'm not saying she shouldn't be DC's strongest female, just that the evidence in some of the stories suggests that Supergirl is around the same level if not sometimes more depending on what era we're looking at. Why can't Supergirl be considered the strongest female? The truth is we just like Wonder Woman more, and we stick by that stance even if the evidence doesn't always support it. Even though Supergirl fans, in the same debate, would probably disagree and provide evidence to the contrary. Like Supergirl could fly so fast she broke through the time barrier and traveled back to Krypton's past, is that something Wonder Woman has ever done?

She's weaker than Superman because she has been portrayed that way for the vast majority of publication history. Previous debates on this forum on this topic had scans of Superboy accomplishing similar feats as Wonder Woman if not greater ones, so this is not a new thing. You're saying you don't want her to be weaker than Superman, but that's not the reality of the situation. It's not necessarily that I want it that way, it's what it is and mostly always has been. And I became a fan of the character anyway, nor do I view her as a weakling because she's not quite as strong. All the stuff you're saying is just empty promotion seldom backed up by the stories themselves, which is more important. And even if she's slightly weaker, concluding that she isn't one of the top tier powerhouses and can't take him in a fight isn't logical, because she is and she can.



She's been second best (and not with a wide gap) since the Golden age throughout post-Crisis, it hasn't really proved that much of a problem for her powerhouse feats in the past. I don't get why it suddenly is now if that's the reason. It's mainly that current writers suck with the character, and that won't change not matter how many empty "she's as strong as Superman" statements they put out. Because they don't consistently give a crap about him either.

If superman has to be the strongest male hero because it's part of his thing. Same goes for WW. WW has moved planets and moved faster than light, traveled through time etc. So yes. She has performed feats like supergirl. And i see no reason why she shouldn't. On top of that, she has defeated sg in all their battles and vis called strongest female over sg. So if you want to play with sm has always been stronger, and you think it has to be that way. well according to DC WW>sg. And i think it has to stay that way.

Also WW has not been second best for a while. Her power feats have not been the tea for over a decade now. And Post Crisis, although was really good. Her overall performances against superman did not show as just a little weaker. So yeah, i have a problem with all of this. Because DC keeps saying jow an important part of DC she is, how skilled and powerful she is. Yet they don't really show it. What i want for WW, is to be represented better since she is the female hero. I am not going to settle for mediocre portrayals. So please don't tell me they don't give a crap about sm because they do. He still gets to show his power in big ways. WW hasn't had that in more than a decade.

[SiegePerilous02]

If superman has to be the strongest male hero because it's part of his thing. Same goes for WW. WW has moved planets and moved faster than light, traveled through time etc. So yes. She has performed feats like supergirl. And i see no reason why she shouldn't. On top of that, she has defeated sg in all their battles and vis called strongest female over sg. So if you want to play with sm has always been stronger, and you think it has to be that way. well according to DC WW>sg. And i think it has to stay that way.

At the end of the day, what either of us want* isn't always going to be reflected in the published material. You can want WW to be stronger than SG all you want, and I think there is precedent for it to be true, but it's not always clear cut when we factor in all the reboots and different continuities. All their battles took place post-COIE and beyond when Kara was younger and Kryptonians in general were not as strong as they were pre-COIE. Even when she was considered as strong as Superman post-COIE, they had to power Clark down to get to that, and it didn't last forever.

*I'm not even firmly attached to the idea that Kara be stronger, that's why I emphasized "maybe" in my first ranking. I imagine Kara has fans that are more attached to her than Diana, so they would feel as strongly as you that she should be stronger and aren't necessarily wrong to want that.

Also WW has not been second best for a while. Her power feats have not been the tea for over a decade now. And Post Crisis, although was really good. Her overall performances against superman did not show as just a little weaker. So yeah, i have a problem with all of this. Because DC keeps saying jow an important part of DC she is, how skilled and powerful she is. Yet they don't really show it. What i want for WW, is to be represented better since she is the female hero. I am not going to settle for mediocre portrayals. So please don't tell me they don't give a crap about sm because they do. He still gets to show his power in big ways. WW hasn't had that in more than a decade.

If it's only in the last decade, that doesn't really indicate they are nerfing her in favor of him. She has been a close second best since the shared universe began in the 50s/60s and she isn't exactly short of impressive feats from that period through post Crisis or even Flashpoint. She's always been just below in terms of strength but nobody would come away from that thinking she isn't still one of the top powerhouses in the DCU. Yet some WW fans conclude that since she's not either #1 or sharing the #1 spot, she's a total weakling. Which isn't very logical.

She's gone that long and been fine in that spot, so second place itself isn't the cause of the current treatments in the Rebirth era post-Rucka.

But nobody is going to convince each other in this debate, could this forum's energies possibly be spend on something (anything) else? These ego measuring contests get very tedious very quickly, especially as they are impacting a lot of people's excitement for the upcoming by movie by constantly hearing "they are not doing it right!"

[WonderLight789]

At the end of the day, what either of us want* isn't always going to be reflected in the published material. You can want WW to be stronger than SG all you want, and I think there is precedent for it to be true, but it's not always clear cut when we factor in all the reboots and different continuities. All their battles took place post-COIE and beyond when Kara was younger and Kryptonians in general were not as strong as they were pre-COIE. Even when she was considered as strong as Superman post-COIE, they had to power Clark down to get to that, and it didn't last forever.

*I'm not even firmly attached to the idea that Kara be stronger, that's why I emphasized "maybe" in my first ranking. I imagine Kara has fans that are more attached to her than Diana, so they would feel as strongly as you that she should be stronger and aren't necessarily wrong to want that.



If it's only in the last decade, that doesn't really indicate they are nerfing her in favor of him. She has been a close second best since the shared universe began in the 50s/60s and she isn't exactly short of impressive feats from that period through post Crisis or even Flashpoint. She's always been just below in terms of strength but nobody would come away from that thinking she isn't still one of the top powerhouses in the DCU. Yet some WW fans conclude that since she's not either #1 or sharing the #1 spot, she's a total weakling. Which isn't very logical.

She's gone that long and been fine in that spot, so second place itself isn't the cause of the current treatments in the Rebirth era post-Rucka.

But nobody is going to convince each other in this debate, could this forum's energies possibly be spend on something (anything) else? These ego measuring contests get very tedious very quickly, especially as they are impacting a lot of people's excitement for the upcoming by movie by constantly hearing "they are not doing it right!"

sg being young doesn't mean she should be stronger than WW when sg gets older. Because based on actual info from Wonder verse, Diana can also get stronger over time. And in pre crisis. Any amazon could be as strong as her or more. It all depended on how much effort they put into their training.

WW hasn't been second best for many years. Her feats flashpoint and onwards are not the tea. Objectively speaking, nobody can look at her feats of the last decade and say she is just a little below sm or second best to him. She dropped in power a lot. She has done nothing close to his best or just a little below his best in the last decade. So i don't know what feats you are talkjing about. WW does indeed look like a weaklink compared to sm. And it's been that way for 10 years. Maybe you think there is nothing wrong with that, but it is a problem for me and many other fans who think she should be treated better than that.

[SiegePerilous02]

sg being young doesn't mean she should be stronger than WW when sg gets older. Because based on actual info from Wonder verse, Diana can also get stronger over time. And in pre crisis. Any amazon could be as strong as her or more. It all depended on how much effort they put into their training.

WW hasn't been second best for many years. Her feats flashpoint and onwards are not the tea. Objectively speaking, nobody can look at her feats of the last decade and say she is just a little below sm or second best to him. She dropped in power a lot. She has done nothing close to his best or just a little below his best in the last decade. So i don't know what feats you are talkjing about. WW does indeed look like a weaklink compared to sm. And it's been that way for 10 years. Maybe you think there is nothing wrong with that, but it is a problem for me and many other fans who think she should be treated better than that.

No I think (barring Rucka) her feats in the comics in the last few years haven't been great and I don't like it. You're making it sound that her status as #2 is the direct cause though, and I don't think it is. Because I want her to be at the power level she was Golden-post Crisis, and I still view her as the #2 there. She is infrequently portrayed as well below that now, which is an issue. I don't think it directly has anything to do with Superman though, as they do not show any signs of nerfing MM, Supergirl, Captain Marvel, Mary Marvel, etc for his or anyone's benefit, and they even had him take shots from Aquaman in early Rebirth. This is a problem unique to her that they are screwing up, and I don't think there is any reason why beyond the fact that they are putting boring writers on her title.