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  1. #106
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    The First Born was able to hold a Boom Tube open with his bare hands, and Diana was able to go toe to toe with someone like that. Even over power him to tie him up with the lasso.

    I don't know how one concludes "mid tier" with that.
    first born's feats are not quantifiable. How much force does it take to hold a boom tube open? WW's feats in new 52 are not good enough to call her a high tier. And the gods she fought in azz run had no impressive feats to call them high tiers. Being called a God means nothing when your feats are lacking.
    Last edited by WonderLight789; 12-04-2020 at 09:26 AM.

  2. #107
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    first born's feats are not quantifiable. How much force does it take to hold a boom tube open? WW's feats in new 52 are not good enough to call her a high tier. And the gods she fought in azz run had no impressive feats to call them high tiers. Being called a God means nothing when your feats are lacking.
    Lol what. Now you're just getting nitpicky.

    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    Well shazam hasn't been equal to superman in a long time. And if somebody elsse can share number one spot with sm. Then WW should be there too.

    Lifting an aircraft and surviving high level of pressuare is indeed a mid tier field. These are things that charaters like namor,she-hulk(before amp), carol ms marvel(no binary), the thing etc can do. And they aren't high tiers.
    So Superman's mid-tier too because he did the same feats as her in that story. Good to know.
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 12-04-2020 at 09:45 AM.

  3. #108
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Lol what. Now you're just getting nitpicky.



    So Superman's mid-tier too because he did the same feats as her in that story. Good to know.
    No i'm being serious. How much strength does it take.

    Superman has many, many feats doing better than that and without help. She doesn't. So no, he is a high tier and new 52 WW and onward a mid tier at best.

  4. #109
    ᱬ Master Of Chaos ᱬ Cruelrain's Avatar
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    Rebirth is trash at least New 52 gave her the God Mode or whatever

    it was an *interesting concept when she takes off her bracelets she becomes more powerful
    Last edited by Cruelrain; 12-04-2020 at 10:05 AM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cruelrain View Post
    Rebirth is trash at least New 52 gave her the God Mode or whatever

    it was an intesting concept when she takes off her bracelets she becomes more powerful
    Most of the time, the god mode was of no consequence.

  6. #111
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    At this point, DC should just shelve Diana for a while until they can come up with better stories and a stronger direction.

  7. #112
    The Last Dragon Perseus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Lol what. Now you're just getting nitpicky.



    So Superman's mid-tier too because he did the same feats as her in that story. Good to know.
    I mean... to be fair, Superman also got to rip a Doomsday clone in half, one that Diana struggled with while Supes flew from planet to planet. Supes also got to bench the weight of the earth for 5 days straight, punched someone to the moon and back again, created earthquakes during his fights, etc.... Like the difference in what happens to other power houses in their own books compared to Diana really shows.

    First Born really does only have that one feat that could put him on Darkseid's strength, every other feat doesn't really put him there so its questionable at best that he's even that strong. His pain tolerance is another thing though....
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  8. #113
    Moderator Nyssane's Avatar
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    I don't think I'd ever want to see Wonder Woman rip anyone in half, no matter how evil or destructive they were.

  9. #114
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    No i'm being serious. How much strength does it take.

    Superman has many, many feats doing better than that and without help. She doesn't. So no, he is a high tier and new 52 WW and onward a mid tier at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by masterwitcher88 View Post
    I mean... to be fair, Superman also got to rip a Doomsday clone in half, one that Diana struggled with while Supes flew from planet to planet. Supes also got to bench the weight of the earth for 5 days straight, punched someone to the moon and back again, created earthquakes during his fights, etc.... Like the difference in what happens to other power houses in their own books compared to Diana really shows.

    First Born really does only have that one feat that could put him on Darkseid's strength, every other feat doesn't really put him there so its questionable at best that he's even that strong. His pain tolerance is another thing though....
    "The First Born doesn't have any feats that put him on Darkseid level except for the one that clearly does, so it doesn't count." Huh?

    Other books written by other authors don't count when looking at Johns or Azz's uses in isolation. This is moving the goal posts when your first statement that they depict her as mid-tier doesn't hold up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    At this point, DC should just shelve Diana for a while until they can come up with better stories and a stronger direction.
    That doesn't sound like a bad idea for her, Superman, Captain Marvel or a lot of characters. The shared universe in general can stand to be downplayed or ditched entirely. All three might be better without it.

    Though it runs the risk of DC just using it an excuse to ignore them and go all in on focusing on Batman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I don't think I'd ever want to see Wonder Woman rip anyone in half, no matter how evil or destructive they were.
    Also this.
    Prioritizing this is how we get some comments that JL/U Wonder Woman is better than Gal Gadot because she's super powerful and more aggressive. But also incredibly underwhelming and disrespected as a character.

  10. #115
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    "The First Born doesn't have any feats that put him on Darkseid level except for the one that clearly does, so it doesn't count." Huh?

    Other books written by other authors don't count when looking at Johns or Azz's uses in isolation. This is moving the goal posts when your first statement that they depict her as mid-tier doesn't hold up.



    That doesn't sound like a bad idea for her, Superman, Captain Marvel or a lot of characters. The shared universe in general can stand to be downplayed or ditched entirely. All three might be better without it.

    Though it runs the risk of DC just using it an excuse to ignore them and go all in on focusing on Batman.



    Also this.
    Prioritizing this is how we get some comments that JL/U Wonder Woman is better than Gal Gadot because she's super powerful and more aggressive. But also incredibly underwhelming and disrespected as a character.
    azz and johns did not show WW as a high tier. Doing things like lifting an aircraft is not something a mid tier coudn't do. A high tier should be able to throw things into the sun, or pull somebody out of a black hole's gravity force. Help move the earth. Punch other heavy hitters from one country to another etc. Wonder Woman used to do those things. But not anymore. She did not perform like that in new 52, and doesn't perform like that in rebirth. While superman has performed like that in both.


    And since when JLu WW is super powerful? She is not, on top of being writen poorly in terms of personality.

  11. #116
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    She did nothing impressive in azz. The Gods in that run are featless and nothing impressive. The same way that calling WW a powerful God means nothing without feats to back it up. She was a mid tier in azz. Which is well above green arrow or batman. But not on the same level as a high tier.
    I have to agree with others here, this is coming off a nitpicky. Wonder Woman isn’t suddenly mid-tier or street level because every fight she has doesn’t decimate a section of the globe.
    Quote Originally Posted by mystical41 View Post
    azz and johns did not show WW as a high tier. Doing things like lifting an aircraft is not something a mid tier coudn't do. A high tier should be able to throw things into the sun, or pull somebody out of a black hole's gravity force. Help move the earth. Punch other heavy hitters from one country to another etc. Wonder Woman used to do those things. But not anymore. She did not perform like that in new 52, and doesn't perform like that in rebirth. While superman has performed like that in both.


    And since when JLu WW is super powerful? She is not, on top of being writen poorly in terms of personality.
    If lifting stuff like modern aircraft is mid-tied I think one would have redefine entire definition of whatever “mid-tier” is.

    Tbh, I don’t even think in WW’s acclaimed runs you saw this sort of stuff you’re taking about. Aside from maybe GA, which was more cartoony overall and probably not even concerned if power levels remained consistent issue to issue.

  12. #117
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Tbh, I don’t even think in WW’s acclaimed runs you saw this sort of stuff you’re taking about. Aside from maybe GA, which was more cartoony overall and probably not even concerned if power levels remained consistent issue to issue.
    Yeah, WW, Superman and Captain Marvel's most OTT feats happened in the Golden and Silver age with cartoon physics. Like Wonder Woman lassoed and tugged the sun, but no way would you see any of them do that now.

    The lack of consistency is another thing. She's swifter than Mercury, but Priscilla Rich (a non-powered crazy lady in cheetah print pajamas) can outrace her? It was just cartoony stories for children and not anal adults like us who nitpick everything (cuz god knows I do it too). They were arguably better off back then without having to worry about catering to an older, more quibbling audience.

  13. #118
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    At this point, DC should just shelve Diana for a while until they can come up with better stories and a stronger direction.
    I doubt DC wants to be seen as the company that stopped publishing Wonder Woman, now more than ever.
    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    That doesn't sound like a bad idea for her, Superman, Captain Marvel or a lot of characters. The shared universe in general can stand to be downplayed or ditched entirely. All three might be better without it.

    Though it runs the risk of DC just using it an excuse to ignore them and go all in on focusing on Batman.
    I don't think the shared universe is a wall preventing good writing from happening.

  14. #119
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    I don't think the shared universe is a wall preventing good writing from happening.
    It can and it can't. Much like everything, it has its ups and downsides.

    Like when they want to reboot some portions of it but not others, creating their messes.

  15. #120
    Astonishing Member WonderLight789's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    I have to agree with others here, this is coming off a nitpicky. Wonder Woman isn’t suddenly mid-tier or street level because every fight she has doesn’t decimate a section of the globe.

    If lifting stuff like modern aircraft is mid-tied I think one would have redefine entire definition of whatever “mid-tier” is.

    Tbh, I don’t even think in WW’s acclaimed runs you saw this sort of stuff you’re taking about. Aside from maybe GA, which was more cartoony overall and probably not even concerned if power levels remained consistent issue to issue.
    Mid tiers can lift aircrafts. A mid tier is far above peak human level and just super human beings. But not as powerful as a high tier. The greatest feat of strength in New 52 for WW. Was to lift and throw more than half a million tones from earth into outter space. That is a very good one. But not on the level of her previous self. As far as i can tell. Based on my knowledge and the way others clasify tiers. High tiers should be able to easily lift millions of tons. Create earthquakes with their best hits. Punch other heavy hitters into other countries etc. The problem isn't that WW doesn't do this in every fight. The problem is she hasn't done any of this in over a decade. So yea, i think she was portrayed as mid tier in new 52 and even more so in rebirth.
    Last edited by WonderLight789; 12-04-2020 at 12:30 PM.

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