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  1. #1
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Default Does SHIELD Still Exist After Secret Empire?

    I don’t think there is a SHIELD anymore in the 616. Correct me if I’m wrong. After the debacle of Hydra Captain America, I think the US government is far too cynical to adopt another organisation like SHIELD considering the failure of the Organisation and the super heroes who were associated with Alpha Flight.

    I give the examples of handing over the reign of power to Hydra. That was a big mistake to think a super hero could be trusted to make good. I give you Maria Hill, who was ordered by old man Steve Rogers to destroy Kobik. Maria Hill made Kobik created Pleasant Hill concentration camp, Kobik who was consequently hired by the Red Skull. Maria didn’t destroy the Cosmic Cube (Kobik), and then this happened. Kobik created a Hydra Cap to replace the heroic Steve Rogers, and hid him away in the Avengers for a good while.

    Next came the heroic Carl Danvers, the leader of Alpha Flight, who on grasping the idea of a Future predictor, Ulysses the Inhuman, consequently had Bruce Banner Killed, had her boyfriend, War Machine, killed, and ended up by killing Tony Stark.

    Then comes Secret Empire, the nightmare scenario of handing your civil power over to an amateur. It almost destroyed the idea of America when Hydra Cap indoctrinated school children into being a combination of Nazis/Stassi era dobbers.

    So do we need a SHIELD anymore? Could the US government trust that type of organisation again? I’m unsure if a SHIELD still exists, but if it does, I think after Nick Fury’s experience of disobedience in Secret War in 2003 and Original Sin, Steve Rogers’ ineptitude as manager, and Maria Hills insubordination, that maybe reverting back to a US Armed Forces authority gave the public a better protection than an undisciplined SHIELD. To my mind, (if I’m wrong that SHIELD doesn’t exist, then so be it), I like that the 616 has reverted back to a 1960’s structure, where the Armed Forces is used as first response, and super heroes are on-call for the unusual threats.
    Last edited by jackolover; 11-30-2020 at 04:38 PM.

  2. #2
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    No, S.H.I.E.L.D. was formally disbanded by the U.S. government at the end of Secret Empire, precisely because of those events you outlined. That said, there is a new clandestine agency out there introduced in the recent Ravencroft miniseries that reestablished Norman Osborn after the events of Go Down Swinging and Absolute Carnage; it's called JANUS (after the god of two faces) and has G.W. Bridge, a former S.H.I.E.L.D. operative, on its leadership council, with other members including Monica Rappaccini from A.I.M., Viper from HYDRA, Valentina Allegra de Fontaine from Leviathan, Malcolm Colcord from Weapon X, and even James Hudson/Guardian from the Canadian Alpha Flight/Department H. From what I recall, they masterminded the "rehabilitation" of Norman Osborn so they could use him to access Ravencroft's secrets for their own ends, whatever those ends may be.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Hopefully SHIELD will make a big comeback, and regain their respect.

    They’ve been pumped out to and by every Tom Dick and Norman imaginable over the last 10-15 years.

  4. #4
    see beauty in all things. charliehustle415's Avatar
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    There might be a comeback since a certain somebody who called the moon home was resurrected.

  5. #5
    Astonishing Member pageturner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliehustle415 View Post
    There might be a comeback since a certain somebody who called the moon home was resurrected.

    In agents of Wakanda? he was an LMD. IS there something else.

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    No, S.H.I.E.L.D. was formally disbanded by the U.S. government at the end of Secret Empire, precisely because of those events you outlined. That said, there is a new clandestine agency out there introduced in the recent Ravencroft miniseries that reestablished Norman Osborn after the events of Go Down Swinging and Absolute Carnage; it's called JANUS (after the god of two faces) and has G.W. Bridge, a former S.H.I.E.L.D. operative, on its leadership council, with other members including Monica Rappaccini from A.I.M., Viper from HYDRA, Valentina Allegra de Fontaine from Leviathan, Malcolm Colcord from Weapon X, and even James Hudson/Guardian from the Canadian Alpha Flight/Department H. From what I recall, they masterminded the "rehabilitation" of Norman Osborn so they could use him to access Ravencroft's secrets for their own ends, whatever those ends may be.
    That’s interesting to me. When did this happen, and what series please? That is a disparite collection of characters as I have ever heard of.

    Yeah, thanks Huntsman. To my mind during the absence of SHIELD after Secret Empire, Meleketh, the Cotati, and now Knull attacked during this era. It’s very intriguing the structure of security while these events were going on.
    Last edited by jackolover; 11-30-2020 at 05:12 PM.

  7. #7
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pageturner View Post
    In agents of Wakanda? he was an LMD. IS there something else.
    Yeah, the Fantastic Four epilogue issue for Empyre. spoilers:
    Ended with the return/revival of Uatu the Watcher, who warned Fury that "there will be a reckoning."
    end of spoilers
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  8. #8
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    That’s interesting to me. When did this happen, and what series please? That is a disparite collection of characters as I have ever heard of.
    The Ravencroft miniseries by Frank Tieri following Absolute Carnage. The revelation of JANUS happened in the fifth and final issue.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  9. #9
    Astonishing Member Riv86672's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, the Fantastic Four epilogue issue for Empyre. spoilers:
    Ended with the return/revival of Uatu the Watcher, who warned Fury that "there will be a reckoning."
    end of spoilers
    Well that’s ominous. I like ominous, though,

  10. #10
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackolover View Post
    That’s interesting to me. When did this happen, and what series please? That is a disparite collection of characters as I have ever heard of.

    Yeah, thanks Huntsman. To my mind during the absence of SHIELD after Secret Empire, Meleketh, the Cotati, and now Knull attacked during this era. It’s very intriguing the structure of security while these events were going on.
    You're welcome, and at least with the Cotati, Abigail Brand quit and/or disbanded Alpha Flight because Carol Danvers and the rest of the Avengers didn't think it was worth keeping her in the loop about that situation, and it nearly ended up with the destruction of planet Earth. Now she's bringing back S.W.O.R.D., albeit aligned with the mutants of Krakoa this time, and it'll tie into the King in Black.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riv86672 View Post
    Well that’s ominous. I like ominous, though,
    Yeah, at least as long as it's pulled off well.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #11
    Extraordinary Member jackolover's Avatar
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    As for SHIELD, after 2001, as a general rule -

    When Stark/SHIELD is in place, Super Heroes attack - Doom.(Unthinkable), Richards (Authorative Action), Fury (Secret War 2003), Wanda (AD and HoM), Hulk (WWH), Capekillers (CW)

    When Steve Rogers is the security in place, Villains attack - Cul, Phoenix, Ultron, Thanos, Builders, Red Skull, Beyonders, Secret Wars 2015 Doom, Kobik, and Hydra Cap.

    From a philosophical standpoint, Rogers in charge best restrains superheroes to be more responsible, and villains are the only concerns. When Stark and SHIELD are in place, superhero issues tend to boil over, because Stark and Fury are sympathetic to superheroes and allow a lot of of superhero drama to get out-of-control.

  12. #12
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, the Fantastic Four epilogue issue for Empyre. spoilers:
    Ended with the return/revival of Uatu the Watcher, who warned Fury that "there will be a reckoning."
    end of spoilers
    And a long time coming, I might add!

  13. #13
    Spectacular Member MacrossPlus's Avatar
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    I don't think SHIELD will be brought given its tarnished reputation after the events of Secret Empire. Not even the agents of SHIELD can fix its image

  14. #14
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    And making Coulson a willing agent of Mephisto (and implied to have murder at least one of the other AoS characters) was a hint that SHIELD was staying down for a while

    I understand it might, like what happened to the Inhumans, be a result of Perlmutter being unhappy with AoS

  15. #15
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    And making Coulson a willing agent of Mephisto (and implied to have murder at least one of the other AoS characters) was a hint that SHIELD was staying down for a while

    I understand it might, like what happened to the Inhumans, be a result of Perlmutter being unhappy with AoS
    At the risk of opening a can of worms that might be better closed, what does Perlmutter have to do with this? I thought that was more to do with tensions between Marvel Studios under Kevin Feige and Marvel Television as headed by Jeph Loeb.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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