Should the Clark Kent identity be confident or bumbling

[Frontier]

actually,private clark kent is superman and He was pretty self assured.The guy was a lot like zorro.

Women were pretty impressed with the dude.(i am not advocating for a stereotypical portayal where woman swoon over a mysterious guy because "He is soo handsome and powerful").Clark was pretty much like a shonen hero.He had no time for romance of that sort.(Except for lois)

In so much as private Bruce Wayne is "Batman."

With so many people having fit physiques these days, I don't think Clark needs to make himself look fat by wearing baggy clothes and slouching. That stands out as much as anything else, especially in the judgmental world we live in.

As long as they don't judge him as being capable of being Superman, it works .

[objectivewatcher2013]

Before it was Superman disguised as Clark Kent, he could be bumbling, but the paradigm shifted, it's Clark Kent disguised as Superman, so therefore bumbling Clark is outdated.

[seismic-2]

Before it was Superman disguised as Clark Kent, he could be bumbling, but the paradigm shifted, it's Clark Kent disguised as Superman, so therefore bumbling Clark is outdated.

But at that point there is no reason to maintain two distinct personae. Clark Kent can be the superhero, flying through the air to rescue people. "Look, up in the air! It's a bird! It's a plane! It's CLARK KENT!!!"

[Sacred Knight]

Before it was Superman disguised as Clark Kent, he could be bumbling, but the paradigm shifted, it's Clark Kent disguised as Superman, so therefore bumbling Clark is outdated.

The paradigm shifted again though, some time ago. Since at least IC. Not all the way back, its more a middle ground now, but its no longer the post-Crisis mindset of Clark Kent disguised as Superman.

[Arsenal]

Clark should be true enough to himself that anybody who knows would look at him and think “yeah, that’s Superman” but anybody on the outside looking in wouldn’t bother to even humor the sentiment that Clark = Superman. He doesn’t need to necessarily put on a persona when he’s out and about, just lean a little heavy into his own natural flaws/issues.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Bruce wayne is a guy worth being.I mean,cars,women,toys,money,fame...etc you can name all the superficial things and he's got it.Yet,Suspecting him of being batman is easy.Being Batman requires resources. He has a region of operation.And people do suspect him.Let's face it,he atleast covers his face.
Clark needs to be the bad guy in some way in the cloisuper triangle.In this case,by being weak and not standing up for her.Otherwise,Lois choosing superman will always be her fault.Ofcourse,her own superficial outlook about the clumsy guy needs to be challenged as well and through her people in general.

Wrong, that'd Clark's fault since he wasn't presenting himself as someone she could take seriously romantically - which was the point, nobody must suspect he's Superman. But it's not superficial, Clark's guise was made and maintained for years to throw off people, he wasn't doing the bare minimum and he knew how smart Lois was. Didn't stop her from suspecting him, though. And it's not like she couldn't find someone else, she's not a bad catch herself.

[manwhohaseverything]

Wrong, that'd Clark's fault since he wasn't presenting himself as someone she could take seriously romantically - which was the point, nobody must suspect he's Superman. But it's not superficial, Clark's guise was made and maintained for years to throw off people, he wasn't doing the bare minimum and he knew how smart Lois was. Didn't stop her from suspecting him, though. And it's not like she couldn't find someone else, she's not a bad catch herself.

Sheesh!did I right in Arabic or something?People have a tendency to blame Lois for not choosing the persona and instead superman. So clark needs to be the bad guy,which he was in regards to their relationship problems.

Moreover,his disguise is poultry. It always was.it is a freaking joke.No,amount of "i slouch, so I am not superman" is gonna make it convincing.It was meant to be.the secret id played out in a comedic manner.
Atleast,if the Id is played out as joke people won't go looking for realistic explanation and when they don't find it declare it as stupid.Clark Kent persona was based on a comedic character.The persona constantly acknowledged fourth wall.Clark Kent persona represented a particular brand of humour that was used by Lloyd,chaplin..etc

In so much as private Bruce Wayne is "Batman."

The difference is, clark is superman.He is extraordinary in every manner .He doesn't declare that.People called real clark Kent or kal el-superman.

[Robanker]

Sheesh!did I right in Arabic or something?

No, people just don't agree with you or your reasoning. The character has grown a lot since the 40s and even then Clark wasn't 100% some joke. Yes, he started as a disguise because the character was a two-dimensional strongman. Over time he developed into a more nuanced character, the understanding of relationship dynamics has improved and the classic Superman-Lois-Clark relationship proved to be toxic because it's predicated on gaslighting Lois, so it evolved. Clark shouldn't be eradicated into just some hick commentary on the whole of humanity because you're basically reducing Superman into some ******* who gaslights a woman who loves him dearly and takes the one public thing he has to affirm the love of the people who raised him, their name (which given their bloodline ending with them is the only thing that continues IN CLARK after they die) and runs it into the ground.

You've mentioned that no, his actions as Superman validate the Kents, except that's just to the readers. To everyone else on DC's Earth, the name Kent will forever be remembered as some incompetent rube from Podunk Nowhere who was so incapable that he'd fall into a pool of water and fail to get wet.

The Golden Age was great for a social crusader strongman Superman but it was pretty awful for Clark Kent's side of the equation, even if I think people exaggerate how foolish Clark was in a lot of those stories (myself above included).

Maybe you look on at bullies and think "what a specimen" but most of us don't, dude. I like seeing Clark beat up on bullies, but he shouldn't be gaslighting his friends because it amuses him and his representation of all the love his parents put into him shouldn't be to make fun of that.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Sheesh!did I right in Arabic or something?People have a tendency to blame Lois for not choosing the persona and instead superman. So clark needs to be the bad guy,which he was in regards to their relationship problems.

Moreover,his disguise is poultry. It always was.it is a freaking joke.No,amount of "i slouch, so I am not superman" is gonna make it convincing.It was meant to be.the secret id played out in a comedic manner.
Atleast,if the Id is played out as joke people won't go looking for realistic explanation and when they don't find it declare it as stupid.Clark Kent persona was based on a comedic character.The persona constantly acknowledged fourth wall.Clark Kent persona represented a particular brand of humour that was used by Lloyd,chaplin..etc

Lois was literally blamed for Clark succeeding at gaslighting her.

Otherwise,Lois choosing superman will always be her fault.

This is made to be her failing. And those people would be wrong, which was my argument. He is the bad guy when he does that, that's why the relationship became much less toxic over the years when DC let her figure it out his secret and be in the loop.

Except Clark relied on more than that to trick Lois, like having friends like J'onn pose as him or Superman to maintain the secret from her. He didn't just stop doing things when he got glasses and a slouch, you're underestimating how intelligent and crafty he and Lois are. Except the disguise wasn't a joke it was played straight in the comics and other media. Clark's human identity hasn't been a Chaplin joke that much in the decades he's had it.

The difference is, clark is superman.He is extraordinary in every manner .He doesn't declare that.People called real clark Kent or kal el-superman.

Clark is multifaceted: he's Clark, Kal-El and Superman. Batman is real, Bruce Wayne died the night his parents were mrudered in Crime Alley.

[manwhohaseverything]

classic Superman-Lois-Clark relationship proved to be toxic because it's predicated on gaslighting Lois, so it evolved.

I don't see any nuance.Just a dude with powers doing soap opera drama and nothing else.Furthermore,No the original goldenage dynamic didn't gaslight lois one bit compared to current dynamic.Clark kent was the bad guy in that dynamic.This discussion has been had many a times.I don't look at bullies as "what a specimen".That's basically a strawman.Moreover,there are adequate enough reasons for clark to hide himself.Him being a bad guy in the relationship was very much understood.Yes,lois did have certain prejudices about the clumsy guy clark was.But that,was never the reason she rejected clark kent.I have already said why clark was rejected.If you want pictures of why lois rejects clark.i can.How this gaslights lois more is beyond me.The guy literally is the same as superman and as clark.yet,It's treated as serious drama.There is no humour or fourth wall shinenigans.That "hick" commentary is basically what made clark an alien and sun wukong a monkey.People can't change if they don't recognise their own faults.Humour is the best way to address faults.

Relationshipwise all they did was, have lois choose clark so that they could appeal to the demographics.Remove clark kent and superman duality in personality/identity and keeping it in name only.By having clark be this confident uber reporter ,that saves people on the side.That's it.Then have clark reveal he does superman things like beat giant hulking monsters or something.If the evolution of the dynamic worked at the very least people wouldn't need a contrived "serious" explanation for his disguise(which itself doesn't work most say, it's stupid).Clark basically does the lieing in this too.He just doesn't act,the drama is "serious" and "Romantic".Lois is basically called stupid more now for not realising that "superman is clark kent" due to inherent sexism in people.Heck!People blame her more for actually falling for superman first instead of clark(the plane/helicopter rescue that happens in every origin since donner movie ).The titular identity became an act.That for me is the biggest sin.Moreover,clark nor Lois has any layers are basically a saints in the relationship as it is.Layers bring nuance.This removes every nuance.

Finally,No the name kent will be known as the incompetent rube reporter from podunk who was sometimes cowardly and sometimes brave who exposed the corrupt.The guy that ran away from trouble but always still brought back help.Always wrote truth on behalf of the common man at the end of the day.Clark is also the compassionate dude that helps.but, is too weak to confront evil directly.

[Agent Z]

I don't see any nuance.Just a dude with powers doing soap opera drama and nothing else.Furthermore,No the original goldenage dynamic didn't gaslight lois one bit.Clark kent was the bad guy in that dynamic.This discussion has been had many a times.I don't look at bullies as "what a specimen".That's basically a strawman.Moreover,there are adequate enough reasons for clark to hide himself.Him being a bad guy in the relationship was very much understood.Yes,lois did have certain prejudices about the clumsy guy clark was.But that,was never the reason she rejected clark kent.I have already said why clark was rejected.If you want pictures of why lois rejects clark.i can.How this gaslights lois more is beyond me.The guy literally is the same as superman and as clark.yet,It's treated as serious drama.There is no humour or fourth wall shinenigans.That "hick" commentary is basically what made clark an alien and sun wukong a monkey.People can't change if they don't recognise their own faults.Humour is the best way to address faults.

Relationshipwise all they did was, have lois choose clark so that they could appeal to the demographics.Remove clark kent and superman duality in personality/identity and keeping it in name only.By having clark be this confident uber reporter ,that saves people on the side.That's it.Then have clark reveal he does superman things like beat giant hulking monsters or something.If the evolution of the dynamic worked at the very least people wouldn't need a contrived "serious" explanation for his disguise(which itself doesn't work most say, it's stupid).Clark basically does the lieing in this too.He just doesn't act,the drama is "serious" and "Romantic".Lois is basically called stupid more now for not realising that "superman is clark kent" due to inherent sexism in people.Heck!People blame her more for actually falling for superman first instead of clark(the plane/helicopter rescue that happens in every origin since donner movie ).The titular identity became an act.That for me is the biggest sin.Moreover,clark nor Lois has any layers are basically a saints in the relationship as it is.Layers bring nuance.This removes every nuance.

Finally,No the name kent will be known as the incompetent rube reporter from podunk who was sometimes cowardly and sometimes brave who exposed the corrupt.The guy that ran away from trouble but always still brought back help.Always wrote truth on behalf of the common man at the end of the day.Clark is also the compassionate dude that helps.but, is too weak to confront evil directly.

You're not even being consistent. You jump back and forth between saying Clark was the bad guy in the relationship, saying he wasn't gaslighting (the how was he the bad guy) and saying he had good reasons to hide his identity.

[manwhohaseverything]

You're not even being consistent. You jump back and forth between saying Clark was the bad guy in the relationship, saying he wasn't gaslighting (the how was he the bad guy) and saying he had good reasons to hide his identity.

bad guys can have good reasoning for doing something that's bad.Moreover,you can understand and many a times redeem them.Everybody lies and has secrets.My thougths aren't well put together.I am tired and a bit sick.Anyways,they just made the disguise serious without any satire at all and had clark/superman be same.He wasn't gaslighting her specifically.He was hiding from everyone.The disguise was basically she hulk walking between panels(different kind of humour employed than that).Lois especially is called stupid more cause she can't see beyond a pair of glasses in a realistic manner.Nobody asks why charlie chaplin gets hit constantly.Similarly,a joke doesn't need explanation.If people laugh they won't demand any.Clark kent glasses persona deserves none.That's the gist of it.