Oh yeah, the accelerated decoys were hella dope
Right, I was thinking modern Kaine who doesn't have that ability anymore IIRC, but yeah that for sure works.
Lol fr... Istg thought she did. Does she just glide then?She doesn't actually fly, which would be better to implement since flying in games can get messy.
Yeah, I guess more sensitive Spider-Sense would be tough to implement in a meaningful way... you could just increase the perfect dodge window but that's kinda boring lol. In terms of more impactful changes I feel like the web based attacks are necessary as something that actually changes the way she plays rather than just making her attacks a bit faster IMO. Even though it's not strictly comic accurate.Don't think she should go as far as Spidey in that game with some of the stuff he could do, but yeah, she does have more flexible webs...
She has a more sensitive Spider-Sense too, maybe that could be implemented? Typically the way Spider-Sense is implemented in games is that Peter's head gives a warning but the player won't even see who's doing it (Which, can really make a player understand why there are times Spidey takes a hit even after being warned lol), so Cindy's could point in a specific direction, or even show the attack briefly like an after-image before it happens (Might be better to just point, 'cause the after-image could look confusing), she could also have faster attacks than the rest too.
Honestly I'm not super familiar with either which is why I didn't mention either lol. I do really like your ideas here though, that sounds like a lot of fun. The psi-webs could actually work like the Amazing Spider-Man from Shattered Dimensions (what I said for Silk) and it would be more comic accurate that way too hahaAnd since no one else will talk about Anya, an idea I have about her is being more defensive oriented, better if she has the carapace, but what I'm thinking is her fighting kinda like she did in her Spider-Girl comic (Don't remember right now how she fought in Araña), since she was powerless and had to fight stronger enemies, she had to play it smart, use other ways to damage than just punches and kicks, laying traps and whatnot, but also get more stuff to not rely on the environment too much like reversals, being able to block attacks, stuff like that.
If she were to have all the Araña powers, then the Hunter power could work too, and replace the defensive attacks with ofensive ones, a temporary power up for her to kick ass in a more standard way, and the difference between both could mean that the Hunter power could be worse in some situations, so it shouldn't be like the fucking costume powers with shit like 3 minutes of cooldown lol.
And yes, I know Anya is not popular, plus having magic based origins in a science based game would be odd, but hey, just for fun lol.
Hell, since I'm talking about Anya, I'll mention Julia too, as Madame Web, she can see the future, so maybe something like what I suggested for Cindy, but stronger, with the player being able to activate it at will, and maybe waste whatever bar so there would be those disadvantages, psi-webs would be pretty awesome to have since they're essentially a much shitter, web shaped green lantern's ring so she'd have a lot of ways to use that, dunno how astral projections could be useful in combat, probably better for stealth only, and telepathy, not much she'd gain from it unless she can use a brain blast.
"Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man
Lol, always weird when I have joke ideas that have anyone's actual approval.
Granted, it hardly ever happens, this might be like the second or third time, but it's funny it happens at all.
Either way, for a proper way to implement Clone Saga's stupid ending ideas to work without feeling too out of place, those endings would be better as something that's hard to get, like secret endings, have the players do stuff that's against all sorts of common sense (Like say, joining Jackal, which, why the fuck did that happen for real?) and not be treated too seriously, specialy stuff like the time-loop one, that way fans who read Clone Saga and are aware of those ideas would get a chuckle when seeing those endings on-screen (Or get pissed for seeing 'em on-screen lol), and players who aren't aware of those would think it's just a weird joke ending, have a laugh and keep playing.
It would certainly be somethin' if Clone Saga as a game also had the cancerous greedy gaming shit, like lootboxes, paid DLCs up the wazoo, intentional bad design with a promisse that never comes of the game actually improving to keep players addicted... Would at least be kinda funny if Clone Saga made similar mistakes in two different mediums.
The only of his old powers he specifically lost is the precognition, since the clone degeneration is no more, he still has the Mark of Kaine, we can see it in his Scarlet Spider#1 when he uses it to... Cut his hair and shave:
Only way he lost it is if losing The Other made him lose Mark of Kaine, which would make no sense, but then again, he kept powers he didn't have before like organic webs... It's confusing lol.
I don't think he uses Mark of Kaine anywhere outside of this in his comic, which makes sense, he avoids being sadistic when fighting this time around, and whenever he does want to kill, he goes for the stingers which are faster... Thinking of it, I'm not sure how effective Mark of Kaine would be gameplay wise... Maybe if he could hold someone, doing damage while still being able to move?
From what I've seen and been told, when Veranke was disguised as Jessica, she had all of her powers, plus actual flight, but Jessica, I think a few times she was shown flying, but mostly went back to gliding (If they even bother to show that lol).Lol fr... Istg thought she did. Does she just glide then?
Gliding could be interesting enough, but she'd need good ways to go back to the ground fast, maybe using venom blasts for that, 'cause with no webs she would be a real oddball to control in a Spider-Man game which relies on webs to move in the air for air combat, including air dodge.
Yeah, what I suggested wouldn't be that helpful in the long run with more experienced players, could even be a crutch and make it a bit harder to switch characters for newer players too if they get too use with it showing when to dodge essentially...Yeah, I guess more sensitive Spider-Sense would be tough to implement in a meaningful way...
I think the right way to do it would be to do something that is unique to her, and that rewards the player if using well, like say, her Spider-Sense activates, and for a bit, Cindy can activate what's pretty much a stance that has an unique dodge system to avoid attacks and counter enemies, being able to choose between a quick dodge for a counter, or jumping towards an enemy who's far, and/or hit them before they get to attack, basically, have the Spider-Sense be implemented in a way that if a player pays attention to it, he can pay attention to the battle around, get ready for the Spider-Sense to activate, then be able to dodge and attack enemies well.
Then again, something like this would be better for Peter to have too (Him with a super primitive Spider-Sense while Cindy gets an entire mechanic around it? Yeah that's kinda too much favoritism...), but maybe he gets a more strict version while Cindy's is easier? I dunno.
Reminds me that Ultimate Alliance had an, interesting implementation of Spider-Sense, you activate it, and the world becomes slower, but Spidey and the partners move at normal speed, don't particularly like that idea since it makes everyone move faster in something that only should help Spidey, but hey, it's an idea that was used in an official game, so following the exact comic rules isn't mandatory.
Considering how wide the perfect dodge window already is (So much for "perfect" lol), that wouldn't make much of a difference too lol.you could just increase the perfect dodge window but that's kinda boring lol.
Faster attacks can be significant enough, specially considering Spidey fights like a turtle with how slow his attacks are in the PS4 game... But yeah, needs more than just that.In terms of more impactful changes I feel like the web based attacks are necessary as something that actually changes the way she plays rather than just making her attacks a bit faster IMO. Even though it's not strictly comic accurate.
Fighting games can give ideas, since they make characters different by giving moves with different priorities other characters lack, so I dunno, maybe Cindy could have a Shoryuken move as an invincible, fast move to go to the air lol.
Movement options are also another idea, but I really don't think Cindy should have better movement than Peter (Maybe an option or two that's better, but not overall), 'cause if anything he should have the best stuff when it comes to that due to years of web-swinging lol.
I don't really think her psi-webs should work like Spidey from Shattered Dimension, 'cause like I said there, her Psi-webs are essentially a much shittier Green Lantern ring, she's not gonna do something stupid like how Hal makes functional planes to fly around sometimes, or detailed weapons to attack, but she can still control them after the webs are out, and just this can give Julia so many unique moves that just this alone could be her gimmick to stand out from the rest, like say stretching her webs to long distances, and using it to do combos at enemies who are far away, or leaving the webs in the ground, which she can control where they go to attack enemies once she moves it close to them to launch them, or grab and throw one enemy into the other, and they don't have to be limited to attacking what's in front of her too, could go to any direction, so she could use 'em to attack enemies behind her without needing to turn around, plus, having the webs out while she does stuff like jumping and dodging, not needing to activate them again after dodging.Honestly I'm not super familiar with either which is why I didn't mention either lol. I do really like your ideas here though, that sounds like a lot of fun. The psi-webs could actually work like the Amazing Spider-Man from Shattered Dimensions (what I said for Silk) and it would be more comic accurate that way too haha
Not saying every move should be manual like this, she could have ones that work like normal webs, just that she can stand out in a big way by being creative with the way she uses the psi-webs, and using them like normal webs in every move would be a huge waste of potential.
And the stuff I suggested here, while admitedly rather basic, give an idea of the potential she could have as they only scratch the surface (Think she can also summon the webs from a distance, which has its own potential too), she could play in a way where she has manual control over her psi-webs, which could give her a slower, long ranged combat style or whatever if the player choses to ('Cause she still should have up close attacks and whatnot), and there are many other kinds of moves she could do I didn't even think of, imagination is the only limit here, granted, a style where she has manual control over the webs when the game really loves auto aim could be complicated to make, also complicated for the players to adapt to it too, but it wouldn't be impossible to make, or adapt to this change, I mean we had fucking V in DMC5 who doesn't play like anyone else in the entire franchise (Essentially, he's a second person gameplay, where you control a character controlling something else to attack, which, this idea I have for Julia is like that too lol), so having a different gameplay from the norm is not a problem, although, unlike V, the gameplay is better if it's good...
Worth pointing out that psi-webs don't necessarily have to use this "manually controlled webs" idea, it's just one idea I came up with, the kind of flexibility they can have in combat is potentially much bigger than that, while still working in a way that other webs can't work like, but psi-webs also have a big limit the other webs don't have: That Julia has to concentrate to keep them active, so say, taking a hit would deactivate them, so trapped enemies would be freed, which is a weak point web shooters and organic webs don't have at all.
Plus, all of this I mentioned is only the Psi-webs, the precognition could do stuff too, although prediction of the future could be a headache to implement, the lazy way to do it would be to give her a state where she auto dodges anything, but I really don't think something like that should be done lol.
Last edited by Lukmendes; 12-16-2020 at 01:01 AM.
Oh that's just his regular wall-crawling powers. Peter can do that too. The Mark of Kaine was a specific ability where Kaine's hands used to leave some sort of acidic burn. Not sure if Kaine has done that since Spider-Island when he was cured.
Yeah Marvel is a mess in terms of keeping things consistent. I think the editors have just given up loooolOnly way he lost it is if losing The Other made him lose Mark of Kaine, which would make no sense, but then again, he kept powers he didn't have before like organic webs... It's confusing lol.
Ah so it's more inconsistency on Marvel's part. They could use the dive mechanic to allow her to get to the ground fast.From what I've seen and been told, when Veranke was disguised as Jessica, she had all of her powers, plus actual flight, but Jessica, I think a few times she was shown flying, but mostly went back to gliding (If they even bother to show that lol).
Gliding could be interesting enough, but she'd need good ways to go back to the ground fast, maybe using venom blasts for that, 'cause with no webs she would be a real oddball to control in a Spider-Man game which relies on webs to move in the air for air combat, including air dodge.
Yeah true... it's definitely a tough challenge. Although we've only spent a few minutes thinking about it, I'm sure professionals would be able to come up with something better with more time and more motivation lolYeah, what I suggested wouldn't be that helpful in the long run with more experienced players, could even be a crutch and make it a bit harder to switch characters for newer players too if they get too use with it showing when to dodge essentially...
I think the right way to do it would be to do something that is unique to her, and that rewards the player if using well, like say, her Spider-Sense activates, and for a bit, Cindy can activate what's pretty much a stance that has an unique dodge system to avoid attacks and counter enemies, being able to choose between a quick dodge for a counter, or jumping towards an enemy who's far, and/or hit them before they get to attack, basically, have the Spider-Sense be implemented in a way that if a player pays attention to it, he can pay attention to the battle around, get ready for the Spider-Sense to activate, then be able to dodge and attack enemies well.
Then again, something like this would be better for Peter to have too (Him with a super primitive Spider-Sense while Cindy gets an entire mechanic around it? Yeah that's kinda too much favoritism...), but maybe he gets a more strict version while Cindy's is easier? I dunno.
Reminds me that Ultimate Alliance had an, interesting implementation of Spider-Sense, you activate it, and the world becomes slower, but Spidey and the partners move at normal speed, don't particularly like that idea since it makes everyone move faster in something that only should help Spidey, but hey, it's an idea that was used in an official game, so following the exact comic rules isn't mandatory.
Considering how wide the perfect dodge window already is (So much for "perfect" lol), that wouldn't make much of a difference too lol.
Faster attacks can be significant enough, specially considering Spidey fights like a turtle with how slow his attacks are in the PS4 game... But yeah, needs more than just that.
Fighting games can give ideas, since they make characters different by giving moves with different priorities other characters lack, so I dunno, maybe Cindy could have a Shoryuken move as an invincible, fast move to go to the air lol.
Movement options are also another idea, but I really don't think Cindy should have better movement than Peter (Maybe an option or two that's better, but not overall), 'cause if anything he should have the best stuff when it comes to that due to years of web-swinging lol.
Yeah like I said I don't have too much knowledge on her. I do think focusing on psi-webs would work better than focusing on precog but it's tough to think of a way to use the psi webs as a game mechanic.I don't really think her psi-webs should work like Spidey from Shattered Dimension, 'cause like I said there, her Psi-webs are essentially a much shittier Green Lantern ring, she's not gonna do something stupid like how Hal makes functional planes to fly around sometimes, or detailed weapons to attack, but she can still control them after the webs are out, and just this can give Julia so many unique moves that just this alone could be her gimmick to stand out from the rest, like say stretching her webs to long distances, and using it to do combos at enemies who are far away, or leaving the webs in the ground, which she can control where they go to attack enemies once she moves it close to them to launch them, or grab and throw one enemy into the other, and they don't have to be limited to attacking what's in front of her too, could go to any direction, so she could use 'em to attack enemies behind her without needing to turn around, plus, having the webs out while she does stuff like jumping and dodging, not needing to activate them again after dodging.
Not saying every move should be manual like this, she could have ones that work like normal webs, just that she can stand out in a big way by being creative with the way she uses the psi-webs, and using them like normal webs in every move would be a huge waste of potential.
And the stuff I suggested here, while admitedly rather basic, give an idea of the potential she could have as they only scratch the surface (Think she can also summon the webs from a distance, which has its own potential too), she could play in a way where she has manual control over her psi-webs, which could give her a slower, long ranged combat style or whatever if the player choses to ('Cause she still should have up close attacks and whatnot), and there are many other kinds of moves she could do I didn't even think of, imagination is the only limit here, granted, a style where she has manual control over the webs when the game really loves auto aim could be complicated to make, also complicated for the players to adapt to it too, but it wouldn't be impossible to make, or adapt to this change, I mean we had fucking V in DMC5 who doesn't play like anyone else in the entire franchise (Essentially, he's a second person gameplay, where you control a character controlling something else to attack, which, this idea I have for Julia is like that too lol), so having a different gameplay from the norm is not a problem, although, unlike V, the gameplay is better if it's good...
Worth pointing out that psi-webs don't necessarily have to use this "manually controlled webs" idea, it's just one idea I came up with, the kind of flexibility they can have in combat is potentially much bigger than that, while still working in a way that other webs can't work like, but psi-webs also have a big limit the other webs don't have: That Julia has to concentrate to keep them active, so say, taking a hit would deactivate them, so trapped enemies would be freed, which is a weak point web shooters and organic webs don't have at all.
Plus, all of this I mentioned is only the Psi-webs, the precognition could do stuff too, although prediction of the future could be a headache to implement, the lazy way to do it would be to give her a state where she auto dodges anything, but I really don't think something like that should be done lol.
"Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man
I dunno about that being usual wall-crawling, 'cause that is basically a super glue, and trying to cut his hair with that would be, painful, but there's also smoke coming out of his hands when he's doing it, so it really looks like he's using Mark of Kaine for it.
At this point I think editors, or whoever is supposed to pay any attention to continuity, aren't real, and they're like Santa Claus, but with the difference most fans still don't know they're not real .Yeah Marvel is a mess in terms of keeping things consistent. I think the editors have just given up looool
Yeah something like that, and she could have better offensive attacks while gliding, something like moving in the air while attacking the enemy, and the enemy moving with you, could be pretty good for positioning, basically to be able to get away from a group while beating one of the opponents, or whatever else, as long as she has something good to compensate for the lack of web swinging.Ah so it's more inconsistency on Marvel's part. They could use the dive mechanic to allow her to get to the ground fast.
If they had a reason to do that much, 'cause honestly, I find PS4 Spidey's combat to be disappointing, some generic triple A shit, thing that stands out the most are the gadgets, which, hey, gadgets are fun, so it's something, but it's still mostly whatever, so I'm not really sure they would want to bother with making characters with wildly different combat options.Yeah true... it's definitely a tough challenge. Although we've only spent a few minutes thinking about it, I'm sure professionals would be able to come up with something better with more time and more motivation lol
But hey, I haven't played Miles' game, maybe they decided to be more creative there and the combat improved because of it, hopefully it's the case.
The very, very basic of Psi-webs is that they're essentially part of Julia, she has to actively use them so something like webbing an opponent down to then go fight someone else is not an option, because even if she can web someone, she'd have to keep holding them, and if something happens that makes her stop using the psi-webs, then they're turned off, meaning she can't have something like throwing webs at an opponent and then throwing them at the wall or webbing them on the ground for a quick defeat like Peter can do (And I certainly abused that when I wanted to get rid of annoying enemies, or when feeling lazy lol).Yeah like I said I don't have too much knowledge on her.
Whatever playstyle they could choose to her, this weak point is better to be there, because she's the only Spider-Character with that as a weakness, and also has the advantage of being able to control the webs, this gives her a very unique combat potential among the Spiders, one that none of the others can do (Well, guess technically Charlotte could do that, since she stole Julia's powers that one time, which I don't think they explained how Julia got 'em back... Think Mattie also has that 'cause I think she stole Charlotte's powers... Fucking comics lol).
Hell, another idea of what could be done with her, she could have a variation of crowd control, but instead of the usual "She has attacks with big area of effect", it could be a "She can grab and hold many enemies", the Psi-Webs could be able to grab enemies and hold them, that way she'd have less enemies to deal with, but if she takes a hit, or if there's a specific action that can make her turn off the webs (Like say, moving too far), then all enemies are freed, and she'd have to grab them all again avoid having a crowd, this would make heavy use of this weakness I mentioned above, about how the webs need her to stay active, and again, this is really important as a weakness to make her stand out, 'cause at the end of the day, a weakness is one of the things that help define characters to separate them from each other.
One idea I just had, that would never work in multiplayer and might be either really overpowered or really wack with probably no in-betweens, is for her to have a way to activate her pregnition, then she can see what the enemies will do for a few seconds, then once the precognition is over, it goes back to the moment you activated the precognition, and the enemies will repeat those actions (Or maybe not all of them since the AI can react differently depending what you do, but certainly enough to make a difference).I do think focusing on psi-webs would work better than focusing on precog
Basically, have the power to once in a while use a save state, yeah, this could easily be too much, or too little lol.
Yeah it's certainly unusual for gaming, but like I've been saying, imagination in the limit here, and imagination can lead to some, interesting ideas, like this guy from Blazblue:but it's tough to think of a way to use the psi webs as a game mechanic.
A fucking puddle with bees and other insects as a legit fighter, yeah, I'm sure something fun could be made for Julia if that can exist, and work lol.
Generic AAA sh*t is popular, especially to a market that values "realism". Things being too esoteric could risk alienating the audience.
I don't see what's the appeal of "realism" when playing a game about a super-hero with Spider-Like powers.
Always found realism in gaming to be a silly idea, but taking blatant power fantasies and trying to make it realistic is way sillier, specially considering that once those wacky gadgets and suit powers were added (Worth remembering that one of them has a gravitational field to make enemies float), "realism" went out of the window, so arbitrarily making Spidey's combat so slow, to the point he doesn't look that much faster than a normal human being, when he's super-powered? Yeah...
And that kind of mentality is why I have so little respect for triple A gaming, so much cowardice that they play safe, so there's essentially no innovations, no risks, repeating the same old overused formula (Which PS4 Spidey is definitely guilty of), all for the sake of having those sweet, safe sales, but again, at least there's gadgets, they literally save the combat, and make it not bland.Things being too esoteric could risk alienating the audience.
Last edited by Lukmendes; 12-18-2020 at 10:44 PM.
I definitely agree on the last part about AAA gaming in general, which could be extended to mainstream popular media and culture as a whole --- the refusal to take risks, to innovate, to shake up the formula and do or try something new with it, always playing it safe for the sake of appealing to people that want to keep things at the same level that they are familiar and comfortable with, never challenging themselves to change, grow, or evolve. It's infuriatingly tiresome at this point.
The spider is always on the hunt.
You could hide Judas Traveler boss fights and Jackal notes and the endings reflect on those.Either way, for a proper way to implement Clone Saga's stupid ending ideas to work without feeling too out of place, those endings would be better as something that's hard to get, like secret endings, have the players do stuff that's against all sorts of common sense (Like say, joining Jackal, which, why the fuck did that happen for real?) and not be treated too seriously, specialy stuff like the time-loop one, that way fans who read Clone Saga and are aware of those ideas would get a chuckle when seeing those endings on-screen (Or get pissed for seeing 'em on-screen lol), and players who aren't aware of those would think it's just a weird joke ending, have a laugh and keep playing.
One ending has to be that they all share an apartment together and take turns being Spider-man/Peter.
And that's why I hardly even buy those games, no risks, innovation, or even a desire to make actual games, they go for that overrated "cinematic gaming" bullshit, which tends to be "we value looking cool with cutscenes over having good gameplay", not even a desire to make this overused formula work, just do the most basic, safe shit, blergh.
PS4 Spidey, admitedly I got it 'cause of the brand recognition, since I expected the combat to be whatever, but I wasn't exactly thinking of combat too when getting it... Combat still ended up being a bit better than I thought, but yeah, can't say I'm proud of getting the game because of it.
Scrier too lol.
Maybe Judas Traveler could be someone you have to fight more and more for the crazier endings, say, fight him 4 times to get the time loop one lol.
Maybe fighting Judas Traveler and Scrier could each lead to different kinds of weird endings, and if you keep fighting both, then the weirdness combines, ending in absurd acid trips or somethin' lol.
Just Peter and Ben? Or all the other Spider-Clones too? .One ending has to be that they all share an apartment together and take turns being Spider-man/Peter.
And as Huntsman pointed out, that's pretty much like that what if from the original clone saga, but with more potential for craziness lol.