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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Thoughts on Infinite Crisis?

    Pros
    -Good interactions betwern the Trinity
    -Phil Jiminez was the perfect artist for this story, and every page he draws feels epic.
    -Alexander Luthor jr. is a great, multifaceted villain and should've been in Superboy Primes place to have a future beyond IC
    -The scene where Batman almost kills Alexander Luthor jr. before being stopped by Wonder Woman is great
    -The times were Hal Jordan appears in IC are very well done and there is a great scene of Hal saving Batman which calls back to Batman's mistrust of Hal in GL Rebirth
    -Dick Grayson is portrayed as being on par with the Trinity.

    Cons
    -IC is so fast paced that there is hardly time to dedicate focus on things such as character development. For a 7 issue series, there is no room to breathe.
    -Batman is responsible for the deaths of millions of people due to the Omac project. I would make the argument that the character assassination for Batman is worse than it is for Wonder Woman
    -Deathstroke is inconsistently written. Is he a merciless killer or a villain with a code?
    -Superboy Prime. Is there a worse villain in comics?
    -Jarring fill in artists lessening the impact of the story. Reis, Perez, Ordway, and Bennet are all good artists, but their presence makes IC incohesive.
    -The subplots involving the Secret Society of Supervillains, Omac, the Spectre, and the War between Raan and Thangaar are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The only plot thread that matters is the creation of the Multiverse
    -The multiverse is completely uninteresting.
    -I kinda liked Power Girl as an Atlantean. . .
    -Booster Gold and Jaime Reyes are the only non Trinity/Superman family characters with an arc who appear throughout IC. This should have probably been done in a tie in, because they have almost no bearing on the main plot.

  2. #2
    Astonishing Member
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    As a fan who was around during the original crisis, realizing it was Earth 2 Superman and Lois, Earth Prime Superboy and Earth 3 Luthor Jr at the end of the first issue.....I was shocked and completely taken by surprised.

  3. #3
    Astonishing Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Default

    Like the original COIE, I can't say I'm overall that fond of it outside of the art.

    Buildup to it derailed the WW book's more interesting Rucka stuff going on for some clickbait moment with a lame character like Max Lord and for some reason they insist on trying to shove him into her world.

  4. #4
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Default

    I liked parts of it.

  5. #5
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Default

    I love some parts of it and I shake my head at other parts, but I think that story was comprised from the start by editorial indecision and legal wrangling with the Seigel lawyers.

    This and blackest night cannot be the last we see of the Earth-2 Superman. Just say he and Lois were reincarnated somewhere in the Multiverse. He was the Jeans & T-shirt Superman all along!

  6. #6
    Extraordinary Member Lightning Rider's Avatar
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    Default

    The OP's pros and cons list is pretty spot on.

    It was my first big event, so I was pretty in awe of the scale of the threat and just how many corners of the DCU could be highlighted at once. Looking back, the story definitely lacked more gradual character arcs, and a lot of the presumably important conflicts are glossed over and reduced to a single page or panel. But the main stories - the Trinity's loss of faith, Alexander Luthor's multiversal plot, OMAC, Superboy Prime as a wannabe hero- were awesome, and there are lots of small character moments that remain memorable.

    I can see why people are sour on Kal-L's exit as well, but that story left a significant imprint on me as a Superman fan. "It's not about where you were born. Or what powers you have. Or what you wear on your chest. It's about what you do... It's about action."

    And how could I not love the Flash Family moments too?

    It has its flaws and strays too far into gratuitous violence at times, but I still consider it one of the best events of the modern era.

  7. #7
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    It’s fascinating to compare it to Johns now. The main message of IC to me was that while the past always has stuff worth saving or rebuilding, it’s never as great as you remember it through your nostalgia goggles either. You have to move forward not back. I’d argue Johns has done a complete 180 on that in recent years.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I love some parts of it and I shake my head at other parts, but I think that story was comprised from the start by editorial indecision and legal wrangling with the Seigel lawyers.

    This and blackest night cannot be the last we see of the Earth-2 Superman. Just say he and Lois were reincarnated somewhere in the Multiverse. He was the Jeans & T-shirt Superman all along!
    I was seriously hoping that was going to be the reveal. That Manhattan took the “energy” of Kal-L and his Lois since Kal-El and Pre-FP Lois were out of time with Brainiac, and used him as the basis for New 52 Superman. Would’ve made perfect sense given the strong Pre-Crisis DNA Morrison imbued him with.

  8. #8
    Astonishing Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    Pros
    -Good interactions betwern the Trinity
    -Phil Jiminez was the perfect artist for this story, and every page he draws feels epic.
    -Alexander Luthor jr. is a great, multifaceted villain and should've been in Superboy Primes place to have a future beyond IC
    -The scene where Batman almost kills Alexander Luthor jr. before being stopped by Wonder Woman is great
    -The times were Hal Jordan appears in IC are very well done and there is a great scene of Hal saving Batman which calls back to Batman's mistrust of Hal in GL Rebirth
    -Dick Grayson is portrayed as being on par with the Trinity.

    Cons
    -IC is so fast paced that there is hardly time to dedicate focus on things such as character development. For a 7 issue series, there is no room to breathe.
    -Batman is responsible for the deaths of millions of people due to the Omac project. I would make the argument that the character assassination for Batman is worse than it is for Wonder Woman
    -Deathstroke is inconsistently written. Is he a merciless killer or a villain with a code?
    -Superboy Prime. Is there a worse villain in comics?
    -Jarring fill in artists lessening the impact of the story. Reis, Perez, Ordway, and Bennet are all good artists, but their presence makes IC incohesive.
    -The subplots involving the Secret Society of Supervillains, Omac, the Spectre, and the War between Raan and Thangaar are irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The only plot thread that matters is the creation of the Multiverse
    -The multiverse is completely uninteresting.
    -I kinda liked Power Girl as an Atlantean. . .
    -Booster Gold and Jaime Reyes are the only non Trinity/Superman family characters with an arc who appear throughout IC. This should have probably been done in a tie in, because they have almost no bearing on the main plot.
    There are wrong opinions, you know. :P

    It... was an event book. Also, Diana only had a big influence on Bruce's decision in the later collections of the story. The first time he pulled the trigger, if I recall, but it was unloaded and then she talks to him. But he'd made his choice. It was hindsight and Diana afterward that helped him reconsider, but all that stopped Bruce was the weapon itself being unloaded.

  9. #9
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    It’s fascinating to compare it to Johns now. The main message of IC to me was that while the past always has stuff worth saving or rebuilding, it’s never as great as you remember it through your nostalgia goggles either. You have to move forward not back. I’d argue Johns has done a complete 180 on that in recent years.

    I was seriously hoping that was going to be the reveal. That Manhattan took the “energy” of Kal-L and his Lois since Kal-El and Pre-FP Lois were out of time with Brainiac, and used him as the basis for New 52 Superman. Would’ve made perfect sense given the strong Pre-Crisis DNA Morrison imbued him with.
    The beauty of head canon...

  10. #10
    Three Legged Member married guy's Avatar
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    I wasn't a big fan of it. It wasn't bad, but it kinda left me cold.
    I hated the character Superboy Prime, I didn't like the handling of Kal-L and Lois and the fill-in artists were REALLY jarring!
    Which is weird, as I love Ordway's artwork, but I was really let down with the last issue's pages.
    "My name is Wally West. I'm the fastest man alive!"
    I'll try being nicer if you try being smarter.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    There are wrong opinions, you know. :P

    It... was an event book. Also, Diana only had a big influence on Bruce's decision in the later collections of the story. The first time he pulled the trigger, if I recall, but it was unloaded and then she talks to him. But he'd made his choice. It was hindsight and Diana afterward that helped him reconsider, but all that stopped Bruce was the weapon itself being unloaded.
    Well, statistically, there had to be someone who liked that.

    But as long as it's the subject of IC...I'd complain that Power Girl was supposed to be a major player in that, and wound up just being rescue bait for other, better heroes, (better according to DC's lights, evidently). She was a statue for most of it, and had no impact at all on the story. The story itself...was okay for what it did for and to other characters, but overall, like most of those things, it was badly executed IMO, being rather a hot mess.

  12. #12
    Astonishing Member failo.legendkiller's Avatar
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    Default

    At that time I was in a comics pause, so I read it just a few years ago.
    I never liked multiverse as a concept, so only the idea of reverting the result of COIE and using alternative versions of characters is not my cup of tea. Moreover Dan Didio's dark hands and visions were starting to lurk into the DC Universe.
    The story as itself was fine, on the average for this kind of event.
    I really hated what Geoff did to many beloved characters of mine as Pantha, Wildebeest and Risk used as cannon fodder only for the sake of shock value.
    Fortunately I was away at that time so I've not been anxious for the possible death of Nightwing. On the other hand I did it some years later for Forever Evil (thank you Didio, again ).
    The art is good even though I'm not a Jimenez fan. Geoff Johns writing is the same mixed feelings as ever for me.
    Basically I'm not a fan of this event.

  13. #13
    Fantastic Member Hol's Avatar
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    As a long time DC fan and reader (going back to 1985 and then reading tons of back issues) I loved it. Was it perfect? No but it was one hell of a ride. The build up to IC starting from Countdown to IC and the minis was so exciting. And I also loved the execution of the event. Was I happy that my favorite character (Wally West) was taken off the board? No but I looked forward to all that was spinning out of it. It was an exciting time at DC.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    I love some parts of it and I shake my head at other parts, but I think that story was comprised from the start by editorial indecision and legal wrangling with the Seigel lawyers.

    This and blackest night cannot be the last we see of the Earth-2 Superman. Just say he and Lois were reincarnated somewhere in the Multiverse. He was the Jeans & T-shirt Superman all along!
    I thought that Earth 2 Superman's death was a fitting end to the character, like Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow was to Earth 1 Superman. Plus the Kal L's death was a lot more respectful and earned than Pantha, Wildebeest, Human Bomb, Phantom Lady, and Major Disaster.

  15. #15
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    It's definitely an event worthy to read.
    The Countdown and the main event itself doesn't disappoint.
    And it's like the 20th anniversary to COIE.
    It felt like the first one to have a Crisis without "on Earth-?", even Zero Hour had that "a Crisis in time" tagline.

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