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  1. #2896
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    I don't think you understand what homoerotic means. It doesn't mean homosexual. And trust me when I say that I know that some talk like this that happens between heterosexual men is just locker-room joshing around. I know because as a queer man, I'm forced to know more about cishet men than they are ever expected to know about queer men (and you know so little about us; most of what you think you know is actually a complete figment of your imaginations). Because of this, by necessity, we know you better than you know yourselves.

    Also, like I said, ask Cloonrad about their intentions. Nothing happening in this book is unintentional. They have a plan. Whether DC will allow them to carry it out, however, is a wholly different matter.
    Mr. Jones, thank you for saying what some of us find difficulty expressing. I feel this in my freaking boooones.

    When are you pitching DC for the reins to the Wonder kingdom!?!?! I have full confidence that you as a lifelong comics fan would adjust well to the comic medium.

  2. #2897
    Incredible Member SonOfBaldwin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shimbo View Post
    Mr. Jones, thank you for saying what some of us find difficulty expressing. I feel this in my freaking boooones.

    When are you pitching DC for the reins to the Wonder kingdom!?!?! I have full confidence that you as a lifelong comics fan would adjust well to the comic medium.
    Thank you, Shimbo. So kind of you.

    I have a feeling that my pitches for DC would be rejected for being "too progressive." So I'm unlikely to try. I might do some creator-owned work, however. Once I complete my second novel, that is.
    Author of the Instant New York Times bestselling novel, The Prophets, from G.P. Putnman's Sons.

  3. #2898
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyssane View Post
    I can't see how anyone can't see the homoeroticism of the exchange between them. It's gay as hell and I love it.
    ::cues a mashup of Lizzo’s Good As Hell and Everybody’s Gay::

  4. #2899
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    Thank you, Shimbo. So kind of you.

    I have a feeling that my pitches for DC would be rejected for being "too progressive." So I'm unlikely to try. I might do some creator-owned work, however. Once I complete my second novel, that is.
    Which is a shame, because “too progressive” is what Wonder Woman is about.

  5. #2900
    Spectacular Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    Thank you, Shimbo. So kind of you.

    I have a feeling that my pitches for DC would be rejected for being "too progressive." So I'm unlikely to try. I might do some creator-owned work, however. Once I complete my second novel, that is.
    Isn't that what Black Label is for? Historia and Earth One weren't held back by their politics, at least as far as I know.

    In continuity, hey, maybe we'll get there when DC realizes there's not much to lose. She doesn't exactly sell gangbusters and it's not like comicsgate types are ever gonna buy Wonder Woman books anyway. Embracing her politics would make her stand out.

    I've also been convinced that we desperately need a proper leftist WW book for a while, to the point where I've started outlining and scheming about one. I saw a tweet that made me realize how much even her good writers have muddled what she's about and there's been tons of discussion of Superman's politics, and it's made me realize there's a huge gap for stories that play on the radicalism in her roots without getting overly fixated with Marston's more...questionable philosophies (yes, this is an Earth One callout).

  6. #2901
    The Comixeur Mel Dyer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfBaldwin View Post
    I don't think you understand what homoerotic means. It doesn't mean homosexual. And trust me when I say that I know that some talk like this that happens between heterosexual men is just locker-room joshing around. I know because as a queer man, I'm forced to know more about cishet men than they are ever expected to know about queer men (and you know so little about us; most of what you think you know is actually a complete figment of your imaginations). Because of this, by necessity, we know you better than you know yourselves.

    Also, like I said, ask Cloonrad about their intentions. Nothing happening in this book is unintentional. They have a plan. Whether DC will allow them to carry it out, however, is a wholly different matter.
    Thank you for your concern, Son, ..but, I know perfectly well what homoerotic means.

    And you know perfectly well that I said Col. Steve and Siegfried can joke about sexual things, without any sexual OR romantic intentions, ..just like guys do, in real life. Do you know what romantic means, and that eros or erotic are words used to connotate romantic interest? I assure you that I do, and that I've been using those words, as long or longer, than you have. I know what homoerotic and homosocial and bromance mean, also, ..and how they are different.

    I acknowledged the bromantic element in the scene, with Steve and Siggy, that we've been discussing. As in real life, when two straight cats get really tight, I just don't see any romance in the bromance. I don't think that's a crime...won't break the Universe. See and imagine whatever you like - plenty room for all of us to do that, right?

    And maybe, the plan is to give Steve Trevor a rival, in the fashion of mythical Eros and Anteros, created by Aphrodite, so perennially infant Eros might grow apace, older! I think Col. Steve needs an anti-Steve, ..forcing writers to define both, in some interesting way. What if that's the plan, and that's all it is?

    I hope you enjoy this exciting new character, this Siegfried the dragon slayer, who feels like he's been there, since the Kanigher Fifties, ..as much as I do. Straight or gay, Siggy's a great opportunity to give boys and young men something to identify with, just as Batgirl and Supergirl gave girls a similar connection - no doubt about it. See, speculate and imagine whatever you like!

    Either way, the action figure will totally rock...totally slay. Cannot wait!

    I'm not ready to give up on the established LGBTQA characters, like the Olympian, Eros or even Prince Jason. The Global Guardians have tremendous potential, if some editor would give them a chance, and what's the matter, with having Achilles tying the Guardians to the Wonder mythos ..and representing something important in the real world and to WW fans? The Olympian and the island, Thalarion, are great concepts, that I would love to see made a vital part of the Wonderverse ..and inspiring to all of us.

    It's a big Wonderverse...big enough for all of us. Friendship between two guys, a mortal and an Asgardian, is not less than a same-sex romance - just different. There's room enough for them, too.

    Can't look at Siggy and not think of General Andros, played by the marvelously sublime Dack Rambo, who happened to be gay. Dack might have made one helluva Bronze Age 70s TV Siegfried, and I think he and Lyle Waggoner, with Eve Welch and that stupid robot, would have added so much to Lynda's show.

    It was great fun having General Andros aboard, even for four episodes, ..in a silver suit that would WAY too tight for Ted Shackleford, when the show's costume shop recycled it, for him. It was funny, even as a kid, watching Ted run around in that thing, wondering when or if ..or where ..it was going to rip on him! It's fun to share that with all of you, knowing someone here might have laughed at the same thing, when they watched it!

    We come here, as Wonderfans, to have fun. That's what I'm going to do, the next time I drop by. I hope we all will.

    And I'm done with this Siggy controversy...done discussing it and assured I am coming from an intellectually and spiritually pure place, in what I've shared on the subject. I'm assured that I mean and have meant no harm to anyone here, speaking my mind. Make of that sword polishing business, whatever you will!

    Last edited by Mel Dyer; 08-15-2022 at 09:22 PM.
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  7. #2902
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Yeah, at Diana’s core, she’s very progressive and that’s a theme the character has embodied in some of her greatest runs and incarnations. She was created to challenge and change the heads and hearts of the people in the world. I’d say we don’t see enough of that and those moments by the character.

    The company that owns and the creators who work on her IP get this to varying degrees and it shows to me when they don’t.

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  8. #2903
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    One place we rarely see Diana’s progressiveness and empathy at play is in the Justice League. I’m still waiting for a creator to really portray that aspect of her between herself, her teammates and their adversaries.

    Diana would definitely want more women and identities that are minoritized in the League. You could make a whole title around Diana connecting with other heroes and supporting them to be the greatest they can be, when facing themselves, their demons, their insecurities and their adversaries.

    Diana has a huge heart, but also is discerning and realistic, so it should be a huge deal if she’s given up on you and thinks you’re past support to help save yourself.

  9. #2904
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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    One place we rarely see Diana’s progressiveness and empathy at play is in the Justice League. I’m still waiting for a creator to really portray that aspect of her between herself, her teammates and their adversaries.

    Diana would definitely want more women and identities that are minoritized in the League. You could make a whole title around Diana connecting with other heroes and supporting them to be the greatest they can be, when facing themselves, their demons, their insecurities and their adversaries.

    Diana has a huge heart, but also is discerning and realistic, so it should be a huge deal if she’s given up on you and thinks you’re past support to help save yourself.
    Think there was a scene in YJ where Diana does say the League could use more women.

    What was funny was Canary and Hawkgirl were on the team, so that's slightly more than the League's usual token one.

  10. #2905
    Astonishing Member WonderScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Think there was a scene in YJ where Diana does say the League could use more women.

    What was funny was Canary and Hawkgirl were on the team, so that's slightly more than the League's usual token one.
    Yeah, there was that and I think one in Morrison’s Justice League. Diana would be advocating for way more members and befriending and supporting them.

  11. #2906
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Think there was a scene in YJ where Diana does say the League could use more women.

    What was funny was Canary and Hawkgirl were on the team, so that's slightly more than the League's usual token one.
    I think the other two ladies actually said "hear hear!" when she brought it up .

  12. #2907
    Wonder Moderator Gaelforce's Avatar
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    Okay, folks, listen up, please as I just had to delete a lot of posts.

    I fully understand how divisive politics have become, especially here in the US, and a lot of people have their personal views on where they stand on the political spectrum, and that's fine.

    However, that doesn't mean you can paint everyone with what you perceive as an opposing viewpoint with one big brush.

    From far left progressive to far right conservative, there is a broad spectrum of views, and trying to pin someone down to a point on that spectrum based on your perspective of what progressive or conservative is just doesn't work. Someone could be a moderate conservative and another instantly assumes that conservative means far right wing/fascist/nazi or vice-versa.

    That's just not fair to the person on the other side who might not share that far right view.

    More importantly, everyone who is a fan of Wonder Woman has a right to their opinion of what they enjoy about Wonder Woman. Period.

    I, for example, really don't like the cheesecake Wonder Woman, but I recognize that there are people out there who do, and hey, to each his own!

    So...

    1. Keep to the topic, in this case the current creative team, not someone who you wonder how they would write the character.

    2. Keep real world politics out of the forum. I know this part is hard, but we are discussing a fictional character in a fictional world. Keep the conversation to that rather than right/left wing approaches to writing the book.

    3. Don't post broad-based assumptions about other fans, such as how you think 'all conservatives' or 'all progressives' would think about Diana.

    4. Be civil.

    Thanks

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  13. #2908

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    Quote Originally Posted by WonderScott View Post
    One place we rarely see Diana’s progressiveness and empathy at play is in the Justice League. I’m still waiting for a creator to really portray that aspect of her between herself, her teammates and their adversaries.

    Diana would definitely want more women and identities that are minoritized in the League. You could make a whole title around Diana connecting with other heroes and supporting them to be the greatest they can be, when facing themselves, their demons, their insecurities and their adversaries.

    Diana has a huge heart, but also is discerning and realistic, so it should be a huge deal if she’s given up on you and thinks you’re past support to help save yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Think there was a scene in YJ where Diana does say the League could use more women.

    What was funny was Canary and Hawkgirl were on the team, so that's slightly more than the League's usual token one.
    There was a scene in Justice League of America #161 where it was mentioned that Diana is the one pushing for more female League members. Initially, Hawkgirl couldn't become a full member because the League bylaws stated they can't have members with the exact same powers and the roster was limited to 12. WW supposedly changed that, off screen and paved the way for Hawkgirl and Zatanna to join.

    The YJ version of the scene is ironic because despite the pretense of being progressive, the show also deaged Zatanna and put her on the team and gave her JLA spot to her Dad and also does very little with the WW side of the mythos.

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  14. #2909
    Incredible Member Sebastianne's Avatar
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    Today I picked up the Nightwing and The Flash comics, which after a long time of only reading Wonder Woman, caught me for some time, first because of their art and because I also consider them a good example of what the WW run needs , the use of the entire Wonderfamily.
    I don't know if it's because of the writers or the editors, but I'm surprised to see how in Nightwing and The Flash their Batfamily or Flashfamily are appearing recurrently.
    In this last issue we can see the Batgirls, Tim, Batwoman, Signal, Bruce, Huntress, The Titans. And in The Flash there are all the speedsters, Barry, Quicksilver, Jesse Quick, Jay Garrick, Kid Flash, Avery Ho, the children of Wally and Linda West.
    I also saw in Clark's solicitation that the entire Superfamily join him in the arc of his return to Earth.
    What surprises me is that Cloonrad in his Batgirls series also makes use of the Batfamily, which makes me wonder why we don't have continuous appearances in the Wonder Woman series by at least Donna, Cassie, Artemis, Grace Choi, Peng Deilan and Yara. We should have Lyta Hall Trevor back and maybe Hessia too.
    In this last plot arc, Cloonrad cleverly put villains on a par with Steve and Etta, but with a more powerful grouping like the original Villainy Inc., the combined superpowers of the Wonderfamily would be needed.
    Is it a question of the writers or are those characters "banned" for the main series?

  15. #2910
    Spectacular Member bardkeep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastianne View Post
    Today I picked up the Nightwing and The Flash comics, which after a long time of only reading Wonder Woman, caught me for some time, first because of their art and because I also consider them a good example of what the WW run needs , the use of the entire Wonderfamily.
    I don't know if it's because of the writers or the editors, but I'm surprised to see how in Nightwing and The Flash their Batfamily or Flashfamily are appearing recurrently.
    In this last issue we can see the Batgirls, Tim, Batwoman, Signal, Bruce, Huntress, The Titans. And in The Flash there are all the speedsters, Barry, Quicksilver, Jesse Quick, Jay Garrick, Kid Flash, Avery Ho, the children of Wally and Linda West.
    I also saw in Clark's solicitation that the entire Superfamily join him in the arc of his return to Earth.
    What surprises me is that Cloonrad in his Batgirls series also makes use of the Batfamily, which makes me wonder why we don't have continuous appearances in the Wonder Woman series by at least Donna, Cassie, Artemis, Grace Choi, Peng Deilan and Yara. We should have Lyta Hall Trevor back and maybe Hessia too.
    In this last plot arc, Cloonrad cleverly put villains on a par with Steve and Etta, but with a more powerful grouping like the original Villainy Inc., the combined superpowers of the Wonderfamily would be needed.
    Is it a question of the writers or are those characters "banned" for the main series?
    Now that Nubia's mini is ending I really hope she and the other Amazons start showing up in the main book. Would love to see more from legacy characters who haven't gotten their due in a while like Io and Philippus and some of the newer ones like Bia, Anahi, and Faruka. I've kinda given up hope for Cassie, Donna, Artemis, and Yara but obviously I'm desperate to see all of them in one place doing something other than fighting each other (I am once again asking for a Wonderfam slice of life webtoon...).

    And this sneak peek from #791 gets me hyped - stunning! Can anyone tell which Esquecida Amazon that is?

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