New WW Creative Team: Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad and Travis Moore

[Primal Slayer]

The beginning of the run was FABULOUS. Loved everything about it. The middle was a bit meh and the ending is setting up to be...forgettable but overall not the worst run.

[Gaius]

Up to the 80th anniversary issue was all pretty solid for me though I would say in hindsight it was running out of steam after that point before it derailed with ToA and never really recovered imo.

Trinity issue was okay, as much as it pains me to admit it as someone firmly in the camp of "Superman and Batman are terrible for WW" camp. Think that was the last issue I read.

They're stories in the Black & Gold mini were also pretty decent fwiw.

[OBrianTallent]

I thoroughly enjoyed their run for the most part. I wasn't crazy about Trial of the Amazons and nothing with Yara Flor will ever be considered remotely worth my time, but everything else they did was great. Was it genre bending, pulitzer prize winning amounts of awesomeness? No. Was it miles above Tamaki and GWW's runs...absolutely. We've had too many writers come in and try to write this massive grandiose story of Wonder Woman and just fallen flat and it was a really nice breathe of fresh air for them to come in with no pretense of perfection other than to just tell a fun story....which they did. I wish we had more consistent art, but oh well.
I liked it. That's all that matters in the end.

[bardkeep]

Up to the 80th anniversary issue was all pretty solid for me though I would say in hindsight it was running out of steam after that point before it derailed with ToA and never really recovered imo.

Trinity issue was okay, as much as it pains me to admit it as someone firmly in the camp of "Superman and Batman are terrible for WW" camp. Think that was the last issue I read.

They're stories in the Black & Gold mini were also pretty decent fwiw.

This is exactly how I feel. The Deadman team-up in particular I thought was underrated and a lot of fun but yeah, it's been out of gas for a while. Shame it's ending at its lowest with the worst WW story since Robinson, though Cloonrad's contributions were much better than GWW's. Also feeling miffed that they went full "bury your gays" with Hippolyta and didn't bring her back...I know she's still a goddess but I'll be shocked if she appears in the foreseeable future.

My only gripe that applies to the whole run is Diana's characterization, which I thought was off even in the stories I enjoyed. I like a spunkier, less formal Diana (see: Gail Simone, WML when he was on his game) but they didn't balance it with her wise "big sister" side and she never felt right to me.

All in all, I think its place in WW history is gonna be along the lines of the Eric Luke run. Will always have some folks who dig it and think it was underrated, but it'll be a deep cut and the primary legacy of this era in canon will be Stephanie Williams' Nubia stuff. Not helped by the fact that it's being followed by arguably the highest-profile creative team since Perez.

[HotBoy]

This is exactly how I feel. The Deadman team-up in particular I thought was underrated and a lot of fun but yeah, it's been out of gas for a while. Shame it's ending at its lowest with the worst WW story since Robinson, though Cloonrad's contributions were much better than GWW's. Also feeling miffed that they went full "bury your gays" with Hippolyta and didn't bring her back...I know she's still a goddess but I'll be shocked if she appears in the foreseeable future.

My only gripe that applies to the whole run is Diana's characterization, which I thought was off even in the stories I enjoyed. I like a spunkier, less formal Diana (see: Gail Simone, WML when he was on his game) but they didn't balance it with her wise "big sister" side and she never felt right to me.

All in all, I think its place in WW history is gonna be along the lines of the Eric Luke run. Will always have some folks who dig it and think it was underrated, but it'll be a deep cut and the primary legacy of this era in canon will be Stephanie Williams' Nubia stuff. Not helped by the fact that it's being followed by arguably the highest-profile creative team since Perez.

For me--and I know this is a completely unfair comparison; apples and oranges and all that--Historia made it impossible to really engage with and enjoy any other version of the Wonder Woman mythos. That's especially true of any storyline that makes Hera the villain. I can literally never look at Hera the same because of how DeConnick wrote her.

Every time I read a book with Wonder Woman in it, I'm subconsciously comparing it to Historia. And it's jarring to me when it doesn't match. I find it difficult not to think of Historia as canon. And when I do that, seeing Wonder Woman as Zeus's daughter, etc., feels extra-icky. That's not Cloonrad's fault, though.

The one critique I have about their run, though, is that Wonder Woman never felt that powerful or strategic. She very much felt to me like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman: sorta brash, sorta bold, sorta naïve, sorta strong (but not too strong), and basically letting the circumstances carry her where they will, claiming victories thanks to the team/community she gathered around her.

But no concrete evidence to show why she is Wonder Woman, other than the fact that she's a recognizable brand outside of comic books.

[bardkeep]

For me--and I know this is a completely unfair comparison; apples and oranges and all that--Historia made it impossible to really engage with and enjoy any other version of the Wonder Woman mythos. That's especially true of any storyline that made Hera the villain. I can literally never look at Hera the same because of how DeConnick wrote her.

Every time I read a book with Wonder Woman in it, I'm subconsciously comparing it against Historia. And it's jarring to me when it doesn't match. I find it difficult not to think of Historia as canon. And when I do that, seeing Wonder Woman as Zeus's daughter, etc., feels extra-icky. That's not Cloonrad's fault, though.

The one critique I have about their run though is that Wonder Woman never felt that powerful or strategic. She very much felt to me like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman: sorta brash, sorta naïve, sorta strong (but not too strong), and basically letting the circumstances carry her where they will, claiming victories thanks to the team/community she gathered around her.

But no concrete evidence to show why she is Wonder Woman, other than the fact that she's a recognizable brand outside of comic books.

Yeah, I have to mentally group them into "stuff I read because I'm cursed with Wonder Woman Disease" and "stuff I read because it actually means something to me." But it's not terribly different from what I already had to do with George Perez as the benchmark, so...

A writer's treatment of Hera and Hippolyta is kind of a proxy for whether or not they get WW, IMO - vilifying one of them is a big red flag for me because it means a writer doesn't think twice about reinforcing patriarchal tropes (the biggest red flag is, of course, Diana having a dad; her primary patron deities being male is another huge one). So for me, DeConnick and Perez 100% get it, but things like n52 and Revenge of the Gods totally miss the mark.

To be completely honest, I feel like the version of the character that really resonates with me died with n52 and isn't coming back as long as Daddy Zeus is around. Rebirth has given us occasional moments that feel special (especially under Orlando) but not enough to undo the damage. Even at its best, the current run has been standard superhero fare - and I can enjoy that as much as anyone when it's done well, but the reason why I love WW in particular is because her best stories so aren't that.

Historia embodies everything I find special about the character that was left behind with Azz, so that's the definitive take for me, full stop.

[WonderScott]

There are definitely elements of the run I enjoyed (e.g. Siggy, Imager-Maker) and definitely parts that were “not for WonderScotts” (e.g. Hera, Cheetah as a member of ARGUS.)

HotBoy summarized the depiction of Diana that I’m feeling too. It’s a fine line between Diana being an imperfect individual challenged by the situations she’s put in and eventually rallying and showing why she puts the wonder in Wonder Woman. Personally, I can always use a little more interpersonal drama and emotional stakes in my stories too - but that’s just what I tend to gravitate too.

All in all I enjoyed it and glad I read it.

[WonderScott]

Yeah, I have to mentally group them into "stuff I read because I'm cursed with Wonder Woman Disease" and "stuff I read because it actually means something to me." But it's not terribly different from what I already had to do with George Perez as the benchmark, so...

A writer's treatment of Hera and Hippolyta is kind of a proxy for whether or not they get WW, IMO - vilifying one of them is a big red flag for me because it means a writer doesn't think twice about reinforcing patriarchal tropes (the biggest red flag is, of course, Diana having a dad; her primary patron deities being male is another huge one). So for me, DeConnick and Perez 100% get it, but things like n52 and Revenge of the Gods totally miss the mark.

To be completely honest, I feel like the version of the character that really resonates with me died with n52 and isn't coming back as long as Daddy Zeus is around. Rebirth has given us occasional moments that feel special (especially under Orlando) but not enough to undo the damage. Even at its best, the current run has been standard superhero fare - and I can enjoy that as much as anyone when it's done well, but the reason why I love WW in particular is because her best stories so aren't that.

Historia embodies everything I find special about the character that was left behind with Azz, so that's the definitive take for me, full stop.

I’d prefer it if Zeus came back, IF we got the clay origin back… plenty of space to use him to tell stories about patriarchal structures and explore discrimination.

[Gaius]

This is exactly how I feel. The Deadman team-up in particular I thought was underrated and a lot of fun but yeah, it's been out of gas for a while. Shame it's ending at its lowest with the worst WW story since Robinson, though Cloonrad's contributions were much better than GWW's. Also feeling miffed that they went full "bury your gays" with Hippolyta and didn't bring her back...I know she's still a goddess but I'll be shocked if she appears in the foreseeable future.

My only gripe that applies to the whole run is Diana's characterization, which I thought was off even in the stories I enjoyed. I like a spunkier, less formal Diana (see: Gail Simone, WML when he was on his game) but they didn't balance it with her wise "big sister" side and she never felt right to me.

All in all, I think its place in WW history is gonna be along the lines of the Eric Luke run. Will always have some folks who dig it and think it was underrated, but it'll be a deep cut and the primary legacy of this era in canon will be Stephanie Williams' Nubia stuff. Not helped by the fact that it's being followed by arguably the highest-profile creative team since Perez.

Yeah, their characterization of Diana was nice with a bit more "spunk" but they also got weird with stuff like whether not she was okay with killing.

I can see it similar to the Bronze Age of WW right before Perez. Decent stuff but, likely (we'll see what happens with King) overshadowed by came after.

For me--and I know this is a completely unfair comparison; apples and oranges and all that--Historia made it impossible to really engage with and enjoy any other version of the Wonder Woman mythos. That's especially true of any storyline that made Hera the villain. I can literally never look at Hera the same because of how DeConnick wrote her.

Every time I read a book with Wonder Woman in it, I'm subconsciously comparing it against Historia. And it's jarring to me when it doesn't match. I find it difficult not to think of Historia as canon. And when I do that, seeing Wonder Woman as Zeus's daughter, etc., feels extra-icky. That's not Cloonrad's fault, though.

The one critique I have about their run though is that Wonder Woman never felt that powerful or strategic. She very much felt to me like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman: sorta brash, sorta naïve, sorta strong (but not too strong), and basically letting the circumstances carry her where they will, claiming victories thanks to the team/community she gathered around her.

But no concrete evidence to show why she is Wonder Woman, other than the fact that she's a recognizable brand outside of comic books.

Totally in the same spot.

I know it's not fair as DeConnick and others pretty much had carte blanche to do what they wanted with Historia whereas Cloonan/Conrad have to work in a pre-existing universe and work with DC's greater initiatives but yeah...

It really didn't help ToA and RoG with killing Hippolyta, evil Hera, and doubling down on Daddy Zeus that Historia was being published mostly concurrently at the same time.

[Gaelforce]

Hey all! Been some deletions and edits.

1. Do not post any link which has a title that includes profanity as profanity in any format is not allowed in the WW forum.

2. Do not post any link which bashes the creators. That's not a way to get around the 'no creator bashing' rule.

3. Do not post any link which breaks the rules or voices an opinion opposite your own as a method of bashing forum members. It's neither subtle nor welcome.

4. Do not insult your fellow forum members.

Apologies to those folks whose posts were edited or deleted because they were replying to the link which has now been deleted.

Thanks

[Frontier]

For me--and I know this is a completely unfair comparison; apples and oranges and all that--Historia made it impossible to really engage with and enjoy any other version of the Wonder Woman mythos. That's especially true of any storyline that made Hera the villain. I can literally never look at Hera the same because of how DeConnick wrote her.

Every time I read a book with Wonder Woman in it, I'm subconsciously comparing it against Historia. And it's jarring to me when it doesn't match. I find it difficult not to think of Historia as canon. And when I do that, seeing Wonder Woman as Zeus's daughter, etc., feels extra-icky. That's not Cloonrad's fault, though.

The one critique I have about their run though is that Wonder Woman never felt that powerful or strategic. She very much felt to me like Gal Gadot's Wonder Woman: sorta brash, sorta naïve, sorta strong (but not too strong), and basically letting the circumstances carry her where they will, claiming victories thanks to the team/community she gathered around her.

But no concrete evidence to show why she is Wonder Woman, other than the fact that she's a recognizable brand outside of comic books.

I feel like she overcame most of the challenges on her own and with her own power and wits without relying too much on her team. She definitely didn't feel useless for the most part in my opinion.

[Hypo]

Wonder Woman #799 Preview
Writers: Various
Artists: Various

[WonderScott]

Wonder Woman #799 Preview
Writers: Various
Artists: Various

Let the dream sequences that turn into Knight Terrors commence!

[Sebastianne]

Beautiful cover from WW 800

[Sebastianne]

Wonder Woman #799 Preview
Writers: Various
Artists: Various

Holliday Etta? That's interesting!