New WW Creative Team: Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad and Travis Moore

[I'm a Fish]

Put that awful picture away and go to your room. You know what you did.

But Rooooobanker... I have at least 10 more in my back pocket that DC should put on some Underoos!

[Robanker]

But Rooooobanker... I have at least 10 more in my back pocket that DC should put on some Underoos!

Now you're not getting supper.

[Koriand'r]

1) Making Superman and Batman gay isn't anymore "real diversity" than making Diana bisexual.

2) How is it that even now people don't know the difference between being gay and being bisexual?

1) Perhaps you don't know, but as far as human sexuality goes most cis people are far more comfortable with female bisexuality than male. They have an airbrushed mental picture of same sex intercourse between women as being "cleaner" due to the misconceived perception there is of lack of penetration. Generally women are more readily allowed to experiment sexually without it becoming a permanent mark against their femininity. The same is not true for men. There's an antiquated notion that somehow men participating in same sex relations are in danger of "losing their manhood", therefore it's often considered an affront on their masculinity. This is also true for fictional alpha males like Superman and Batman, their fans would be immensely upset by the prospect of their favorite superhero becoming a butch queen.

2) You assume far too much, just because someone doesn't use terminology as you see fit, it doesn't mean they're unaware.

[HsssH]

1) Perhaps you don't know, but as far as human sexuality goes most cis people are far more comfortable with female bisexuality than male. They have an airbrushed mental picture of same sex intercourse between women as being "cleaner" due to the misconceived perception there is of lack of penetration. Generally women are more readily allowed to experiment sexually without it becoming a permanent mark against their femininity. The same is not true for men. There's an antiquated notion that somehow men participating in same sex relations are in danger of "losing their manhood", therefore it's often considered an affront on their masculinity. This is also true for fictional alpha males like Superman and Batman, their fans would be immensely upset by the prospect of their favorite superhero becoming a butch queen.

All very true, but we shouldn't forget either that lots of straight men find two (or more) women making out hot and arousing. Its very different rules for gays and lesbians. Or bisexuals.

[Agent Z]

1) Perhaps you don't know, but as far as human sexuality goes most cis people are far more comfortable with female bisexuality than male. They have an airbrushed mental picture of same sex intercourse between women as being "cleaner" due to the misconceived perception there is of lack of penetration. Generally women are more readily allowed to experiment sexually without it becoming a permanent mark against their femininity. The same is not true for men. There's an antiquated notion that somehow men participating in same sex relations are in danger of "losing their manhood", therefore it's often considered an affront on their masculinity. This is also true for fictional alpha males like Superman and Batman, their fans would be immensely upset by the prospect of their favorite superhero becoming a butch queen.

All this being true, two gay men isn't anymore real diversity than a bisexual woman.

For that matter, people wanting Diana to be bisexual is not the same thing as a resistance to Superman or Batman being gay. And if you want more gay or bisexual male representation, you can do that without bashing the idea of Diana being into women.

2) You assume far too much, just because someone doesn't use terminology as you see fit, it doesn't mean they're unaware.

Gay and bisexual have two distinct meanings. It is not simply "terminology as I see fit".

[Koriand'r]

All this being true, two gay men isn't anymore real diversity than a bisexual woman.

For that matter, people wanting Diana to be bisexual is not the same thing as a resistance to Superman or Batman being gay. And if you want more gay or bisexual male representation, you can do that without bashing the idea of Diana being into women.



Gay and bisexual have two distinct meanings. It is not simply "terminology as I see fit".

It's simply more progressive to have Superman or Batman engage in same sex relations because it's more controversial and strikes at the heart of stereotypes and prejudices.

[Gaius]

All very true, but we shouldn't forget either that lots of straight men find two (or more) women making out hot and arousing. Its very different rules for gays and lesbians. Or bisexuals.

Stuff like this is actually why I'm kind surprised they haven't done with it Diana. Or at least back during stuff like the 90s with the Deodato cheesecake.

[Agent Z]

It's simply more progressive to have Superman or Batman engage in same sex relations because it's more controversial and strikes at the heart of stereotypes and prejudices.

Being progressive is not supposed to be controversial. As for striking at the heart of stereotypes and prejudices, Wonder Woman being bisexual accomplishes the same thing.

[Alpha]

Stuff like this is actually why I'm kind surprised they haven't done with it Diana. Or at least back during stuff like the 90s with the Deodato cheesecake.

Well there is this from 1996 (even though it's not Diana)

WW kiss Artemis.jpg

[BiteTheBullet]

Well there is this from 1996 (even though it's not Diana)

WW kiss Artemis.jpg

If it is not Diana, who is it?

[Alpha]

It's an elseworlds where among other things Diana has joined the Nazi forces. Lois Lane eventually is granted the powers of Wonder Woman by the greek gods and transforms into what you see there. She's kissing the goddess Artemis in that panel. I haven't read the book, but I heard that it's one of the worst things Chris Claremont has written. The only good thing is that it has this beautiful kiss, which is the first time Lois Lane kisses another woman as well as the first time Wonder Woman kisses another woman.

[Koriand'r]

Being progressive is not supposed to be controversial. As for striking at the heart of stereotypes and prejudices, Wonder Woman being bisexual accomplishes the same thing.

No it doesn't. In fact it does the opposite by reaffirming and strengthening stereotypes, because she's an athletic woman that comes from an island of athletic warrior women whom people already assume are lesbians, due to their lack of need for men. That's why making her bisexual is too easy, there's no challenge involved and it's not at all progressive.

[BiteTheBullet]

If it is not Diana, who is it?

Sounds like I didn't miss anything good

[Alpha]

Sounds like I didn't miss anything good

I mean...it does have the best Wonder Woman kiss ever, and one of like the only two gay kisses Wonder Woman ever had.


(Plus Superman transforms into a centaur)




I think this is the only other gay kiss she's had (from Earth One vol 3)

[Agent Z]

No it doesn't. In fact it does the opposite by reaffirming and strengthening stereotypes, because she's an athletic woman that comes from an island of athletic warrior women whom people already assume are lesbians, due to their lack of need for men.

Anything can look like a stereotype if you twist it enough. If Diana were defined by being athletic you might have a point but that isn't the case. Otherwise, we might as well not make any female superheroes or action heroines lesbians at all. Diana doesn't even look like the typical butch lesbian athlete (not that such a character is remotely a bad thing). Having slight similarities to a stereotype does not make one a stereotype.

That's why making her bisexual is too easy, there's no challenge involved and it's not at all progressive.

Being progressive is not just about being challenging. It is about normalizing the idea of people who aren't the majority. Whether or not Diana being bisexual would cause controversy (and I've seen enough pushback to know that it likely will), it doesn't matter because it adds to representation.

If you want Superman or Batman to be gay that badly, by all means argue for that. Don't use it to slam other representation people would want.