New WW Creative Team: Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad and Travis Moore

[Stanlos]

I am 51 years old. I am Black and queer and cisgender and male.

I can tell you that men run the gamut on the spectrum. Some men are "fixed" and some aren't. Just because a person identifies as heterosexual, it doesn't mean they wouldn't, or haven't, occasionally mess around with someone of the same sex--but not enough for them to identify themselves as bisexual or homosexual. Some cisgender men have had one, two, or three same-sex encounters and then gone on to marry cisgender women and have children, etc. Not all human beings fit neatly into or precisely in the categories we've assigned to them.

The possibilities are endless. No matter how mad that makes folks who are foaming over "tEh GaY aGeNdA!"

This is gospel.

[Mel Dyer]

As I said before, I don't see it mandated [Ha!] On the docket, that Siggy's got "to taste the rainbow" ..and don't see any rainbows on the horizon, other than the mythical one, he and his fellow Asgardians cross into Heaven, by.

I'm not going to go back and forth, with anyone here, about this, ..seeing it as already settled and looking forward to Siggy/Gundra dramedy, down the road. I would love to see Siggy crushing on Doc Julia, though, considering she is likely well-studied in the legends, that are his life experiences, but feel that's about as likely...

As Siggy being gay or queer.

The WW comic has a whole Greek pantheon, even an island of Greek heroes (Thalarion), to cast in LGBTQA stories; why anyone would think to see Siegfried, a famously heterosexual romancer of women...even goddesses, in a gay romance with WW's heterosexual beau, of nearly a CENTURY, ..makes no sense to me.

Are we excited about what life might be like, at home, with Steve and Siggy? What is the new queerness, we're gleaning from two guys sharing an apartment, together?

Anyone here ever see The Odd Couple?

[Primal Slayer]

There are operas and cycles of stories in German folklore, which says his bisexuality should be a huge surprise to ALL of us ..and patently ridiculous. Furthermore, Michael Conrad already confirmed, on Twitter, that Siggy, as in legend, is related to the Von Gunthers, through marriage to one of the Gundras, the Valkyrie of opera fame or a namesaked daughter of hers.

What if it was the supervillainess Valkyrie, Gundra, he was married to? Isn't it cool, that Siggy is already in the Wonderverse, through this confirmed marriage to a classic supervillain? How is that not a good thing ..or enough?

Siggy and Steve fooling around seems unnecessarily tacked-on and nonsensical.

This has been settled. See whatever you like, between Siggy and Steve, but, his orientation has already been settled.

Nothing that you've said states that Siggy is 100% straight. Being married to a woman does not equal straightness. So sorry to tell you but his orientation is far from settled.

[SonOfBaldwin]

Wonder Woman was literally created to subvert myths, so concerns about mythological accuracy are bunk to me. Plus a man can be a womanizer and married to a woman while still being bi.

It sounds like the real concern here is about feeling alienated by the lack of straight characters, specifically straight men. And I think people are welcome to start complaining about that as soon as they start actually showing established queer characters in queer relationships. Diana’s relationships with women have been all tell and no show, Etta has flirted with women but not much else, Philippus and Hippolyta were finally established only for Hippolyta to immediately die, and I don’t think Achilles and Jason are even canon anymore (I’d be happy to see Achilles again but if they could please leave Jason far in the distance…).

LGBTQ+ folks, women, and people of color have had to find ways to relate to and connect with stories that feature no characters like us for our entire lives, so it’s interesting to see it flipped.

[Shimbo]

I also really do not think the Wonder Woman book is written for or marketed at straight men, anyway. And it shouldn't. Necessitating Siggy be straight is such a strange hill to die on. I'm living for the homoerotic energy in Siggy and Steve's interactions, and I think the creative team is quite aware of what they're doing. If nothing comes of it, dare I say...this is queer-baiting done right? Never thought I'd ever write that in my life.

[Mel Dyer]

I also really do not think the Wonder Woman book is written for or marketed at straight men, anyway. And it shouldn't. Necessitating Siggy be straight is such a strange hill to die on. I'm living for the homoerotic energy in Siggy and Steve's interactions, and I think the creative team is quite aware of what they're doing. If nothing comes of it, dare I say...this is queer-baiting done right? Never thought I'd ever write that in my life.

Siggy is an Asgardian and ex-husband of a WW villain, Gundra. I like that he's in a Wonderverse family, while bringing his own legend to the comic, with him, ..and hoping we'll get to see this new, Asgardian addition to Diana's mythos explored. With Ratatosk and the Norns already introduced, it looks like Siggy's established background is already being celebrated, here...GREAT! That's exciting!

[HestiasHearth]

To insist that myths are "settled" without irony is funny. Well, you're going to be pissed, homie. Because this rendition of Siggy is 'bout to taste the rainbow.

Hear hear! Or is that here here?

Concur with you times infinity. That exchange between Siggy and Steve regarding Siggy's, ahem, sword polishing... was quite queer & quite erotically charged (and there is absolutely zero wrong with it).
The writer and the artist were 100 % aware of what they were doing and I LOVE it.

[bardkeep]

I also really do not think the Wonder Woman book is written for or marketed at straight men, anyway. And it shouldn't. Necessitating Siggy be straight is such a strange hill to die on. I'm living for the homoerotic energy in Siggy and Steve's interactions, and I think the creative team is quite aware of what they're doing. If nothing comes of it, dare I say...this is queer-baiting done right? Never thought I'd ever write that in my life.

Truth, they’re finally embracing the fact that this book is for the girls, gays, and theys. A special little treat for our loyalty through the n52 Superman/WW ship

[Koriand'r]

Truth, they’re finally embracing the fact that this book is for the girls, gays, and theys. A special little treat for our loyalty through the n52 Superman/WW ship

I liked Superman/Wonder Woman but I like this too. As for rewards this is what you get when you're loyal and Buy. The. Book.

[Perseus]

Read issue 790... was fine. I didn't really find the arch entertaining though, felt boring to me. I've been getting that impression a lot recently tbh. Ignoring the outside DC universe stuff like "death of the JL" which is filled to the brim with used tropes and paths already walked on. I just didn't feel the stakes in this story. Like, the team is afraid to go too far with the characters. No boundaries were really pushed. Like for example, they had that illusion with Psycho and Dolos and the Hall of Justice attack but, I didn't feel worried or concerned... It was just a bunch of angry dudes with milk most of the time, what actual threat to Diana or anyone not Steve or Etta was it? It just felt like a five-issue filler comic. Both Psycho and Poison were wasted imo. Psycho is the incredibly powerful telepath but, no mind cages, no psycho-scape world, guy was astral projecting and controlling Nordic beings and gods now he's needing crystal ball... And Poison, honestly one of Diana's more versatile and unique villains imo, she just seemed bland here. It's like that nozzle stated at a safe 5 when it should have gone past 10. And, yeah, after Historia the big shadow villain reveal was kind of a letdown, here's to hoping another God is impersonating her... but I doubt it. I'm looking forward to the next storyline hoping that something more interesting happens.

Sidenote... I'm fully in the camp of Diana as a straight ally, empty lip service is one thing, it's clear DC didn't much care for her bi outing back in 2016. and to say there isn't already a ton of LGBT+ rep in the Wonder-verse is a lie. Diana could have been with a woman starting the Coonrad's run but we got Sigfred, which is fine I might add. But I think people here trying to "get Diana a girlfriend" should probably stick to head canons and fan-fics. Nubia seems to be fluid but leaning lesbian, Hippolyta and Phillipus were in a lesbian romance, the vast majority of amazons seem to be bisexual/lesbians, there are trans amazons officially now. Diana preferring men should not make her less than to anyone nor affect people's viewing of her. If anything, we don't really have ace amazons or much gay male relationships in the wonder books if people are concerned about rep.

[bardkeep]

The issue with Diana being straight - and the reason why Greg Rucka made her bi (other than him being the king of allies) - is because if she’s not romantically or sexually attracted to women, Themyscira fundamentally can’t be her paradise. It removes all of the weight of that sacrifice and inherently builds the allure of men into her motivation. It also inevitably pushes Steve as her motivation for leaving, even if the pretense is “it’s Ares” - it’s why George Perez chose to age Steve up and have Diana repeatedly think “he’s old enough to be my father” so the reader wouldn’t even get any ideas.

Her being ace would serve the same purpose but literally desexualizing her would kinda be an insult to her origins…

And speaking of that, some flavor of queerness has been built into Diana since day 1. GA WW comics really did everything they could to be homoerotic considering the editorial standards of the ‘40s and there was a whole moral panic over her promoting lesbianism. Doesn’t mean she HAS to be gay/bi but does mean it’s built into her fabric in a way that it isn’t for other characters.

[Mel Dyer]

Read issue 790... was fine. I didn't really find the arch entertaining though, felt boring to me...after Historia the big shadow villain reveal was kind of a letdown, here's to hoping another God is impersonating her... but I doubt it. I'm looking forward to the next storyline hoping that something more interesting happens.

Sidenote... I'm fully in the camp of Diana as a straight ally...If anything, we don't really have ace amazons or much gay male relationships in the wonder books if people are concerned about rep.

I agree that the Wonderverse already has a plethora of LGBTQA male heroes, created for/by the comic, which writers haven't done anything with. I think that's why everyone's curious and excited about a prospect of Steve/Siggy...? ANY fan of Atlantiades, the Olympian (Achilles) or Orlando's Prince Jason (a third [?] Olympian), all of them poorly developed potential STARS, ..should be seriously pi$$ed.

I wouldn't be pissed at Michael Conrad, Becky Cloonan or Edtr. Brittany Holzherr, ..but, I would be pissed.

And I could hope that's JANUS posing as Hera, ..but doubt it. I'm looking forward to something more interesting happening, ..with Janus. Again, I doubt it.

[Perseus]

The issue with Diana being straight - and the reason why Greg Rucka made her bi (other than him being the king of allies) - is because if she’s not romantically or sexually attracted to women, Themyscira fundamentally can’t be her paradise. It removes all of the weight of that sacrifice and inherently builds the allure of men into her motivation. It also inevitably pushes Steve as her motivation for leaving, even if the pretense is “it’s Ares” - it’s why George Perez chose to age Steve up and have Diana repeatedly think “he’s old enough to be my father” so the reader wouldn’t even get any ideas.

Her being ace would serve the same purpose but literally desexualizing her would kinda be an insult to her origins…

And speaking of that, some flavor of queerness has been built into Diana since day 1. GA WW comics really did everything they could to be homoerotic considering the editorial standards of the ‘40s and there was a whole moral panic over her promoting lesbianism. Doesn’t mean she HAS to be gay/bi but does mean it’s built into her fabric in a way that it isn’t for other characters.

I would disagree with that; Diana was created from clay to be the only child of Themyscira. And many times, she was basically raised by everyone on the island. I don't like the idea of Diana being romantically or sexually involved with any amazon because, in this case, it does actually come across as grooming. I don't say this lightly, I know the current trend of conservatives using "grooming" as a blanket term to attack any and all LGBT+ people, especially trans people. But a singular child born on an island of all women and getting into a relationship with one doesn't seem odd to anyone else? What if there are straight amazons that use "toys" just for pleasure? Sexual liberation is a part of amazon identity, and it should be explored, but it should be open not confined to just bisexuality or lesbianism.

Paradise Island to Diana, at least in my eyes, is about safety. She has a loving mother and family, so much history to explore, training, learning, riding with the kangas, swimming with the megalodons, playing and talking with all the mythic creatures and beings like gryphons and such. But she gets bored after all that time, she's an adventurer, and here comes this chance to explore an unknown and possibly dangerous world but also stop an evil threat that was told to her in legends... and she takes that leap of faith to become legend herself, but she has to leave that safety, her home and people behind. This is a very classic hero's journey step, making her into chicks doesn't take that away.

Edit: I should mention that I'm speaking about the comics/novels not other media, the LGBTQIA characters in the Wonder-mythos need to have a consistent representation in TV and movies and video games.

[bardkeep]

I would disagree with that; Diana was created from clay to be the only child of Themyscira. And many times, she was basically raised by everyone on the island. I don't like the idea of Diana being romantically or sexually involved with any amazon because, in this case, it does actually come across as grooming. I don't say this lightly, I know the current trend of conservatives using "grooming" as a blanket term to attack any and all LGBT+ people, especially trans people. But a singular child born on an island of all women and getting into a relationship with one doesn't seem odd to anyone else? What if there are straight amazons that use "toys" just for pleasure? Sexual liberation is a part of amazon identity, and it should be explored, but it should be open not confined to just bisexuality or lesbianism.

Paradise Island to Diana, at least in my eyes, is about safety. She has a loving mother and family, so much history to explore, training, learning, riding with the kangas, swimming with the megalodons, playing and talking with all the mythic creatures and beings like gryphons and such. But she gets bored after all that time, she's an adventurer, and here comes this chance to explore an unknown and possibly dangerous world but also stop an evil threat that was told to her in legends... and she takes that leap of faith to become legend herself, but she has to leave that safety, her home and people behind. This is a very classic hero's journey step, making her into chicks doesn't take that away.

Edit: I should mention that I'm speaking about the comics/novels not other media, the LGBTQIA characters in the Wonder-mythos need to have a consistent representation in TV and movies and video games.

I totally get the grooming argument in origin stories where Diana is really young when she leaves (e.g. the Perez origin). I find it a lot less compelling in stories where she’s hundreds of years old before she leaves the island. I definitely think you’re right, the Amazons would and could be sexually liberated in ways other than being freely gay/bi, but Diana is the only Amazon who never met a man pre-Steve so it’s not like she could understand sexual attraction if she wasn’t into women.

And it’s not just a headcanon or fanfic take. Rebirth explicitly established that she had relationships with other Amazons and she stated outright that she and Kasia dated. The issue is that no writers have explored it in canon since other than G. Willow Wilson having her state her attraction to Aphrodite’s nb child, though there have been Elseworlds stories where she’s queer - in fact, in recent years it seems like out of continuity she’s depicted as queer more often than not (Dark Knights of Steel, Earth One, the Red Son film adaptation, True Amazon). And I’m not surprised that Cloonrad - relatively untested writers, unlike Greg Rucka or GWW - chose not to push through editorial resistance to introduce a female love interest beginning in their very first arc.

I’m with you on what her intentions are/should be, but I have to disagree with your take that her not being able to experience romantic or sexual attraction on the island doesn’t fundamentally change her motivations. Sex and romance are fundamental parts of the human experience unless you’re ace/aro, and I think that lack is the distinction between a place of safety and a place of denial. But in fairness, I’m pretty firmly in the camp of “her story should absolutely center women,” so I’m probably more firm on that than some. And if she IS straight, I don’t think you can make Steve a love interest without changing the core of the story (again, George Perez recognized this).

Of course if we’re REALLY getting in the weeds she probably has no concept of straight, gay, bi, pan, etc. because those labels wouldn’t exist in a society of all women…

[Mel Dyer]

I also really do not think the Wonder Woman book is written for or marketed at straight men, anyway. And it shouldn't. Necessitating Siggy be straight is such a strange hill to die on. I'm living for the homoerotic energy in Siggy and Steve's interactions, and I think the creative team is quite aware of what they're doing. If nothing comes of it, dare I say...this is queer-baiting done right? Never thought I'd ever write that in my life.

I'd wager our LGBTQA brothers probably buy more WW merchandise, than str8 male Wonder-fans do - are more demonstrative, with tee shirts, watches and etc. I think some of them fear being seen with WW paraphernalia will wrongly associate them with effeminacy or gayness ..and how they'll be judged. I don't think