New WW Creative Team: Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad and Travis Moore

[Primal Slayer]

I'm not exactly a Deadman aficionado or anything, but am I the only one finding this whole thing with him randomly hijacking some dead guy's body without his consent, riding it around for poops and giggles, and then dumping it in the ocean...pretty gross? I mean, if it was a life and death situation then sure, you take the body that you can get, but like...this level of casual disrespect for someone's corpse feels like the sort of thing that a lot of people should have a problem with, much less Diana.

How can someone whose dead give consent to their body being hijacked? This isn't a WW84 issue.

[BrianWilly]

In the DCU? Super easily, probably!

Like I said, it would hardly matter if he were doing it for some greater purpose, or if it's an emergency and he simply had to yoink a body...but as far as I can tell, he's mostly done it here in order to enjoy a plane ride and then lounge in a hotel room? And then, whoops, it's starting to stink now, so better dump it in the sea like trash!? It's the casual disrespect here that's so gross and I can't imagine that anyone wouldn't have a problem with this.

[Agent Z]

How can someone whose dead give consent to their body being hijacked? This isn't a WW84 issue.

I believe the fact he can't give consent at all is the issue.

[Alpha]

These writers are giving us fun scenes with Diana and Deadman, and you guys are arguing about "consent"?

Consent is a really important issue that a lot of people don't take seriously, a ghost entering a dead body has absolutely nothing to do with making people consciencious of how they can create trauma, insecurity and guilt in others by violating them, both in the context of a work office and within a date where social pressure and psychological pressure can be asserted in awful but discrete ways.

Learn how to distinguish important real life issues from fun stories about ghosts.

But Deadman literally serves an hindu goddess who gave him a mission in the afterlife. Let's just say that she asks the souls of these dead bodies if they will allow Deadman to use them

[Gaius]

It does come off as a bit flippant to me if I'm being honest. It doesn't ruin the run for me or anything but just seems territory that comes with Deadman honestly from the little I've seen of him. I remember the first time I watched him in the DCAU being a bit weirded out by him when he took control of all the Trinity's bodies.

[BrianWilly]

Lol yeah it's certainly bothersome when ethical issues get in the way of enjoying silly comics, isn't it? Why should we care about how cartoon characters act? In a Wonder Woman series, of all things! :rolleyes:

I'll say it one more time for clarity and then drop it, 'cuz evidently this isn't an audience interested in these matters: I do not care if Deadman is hijacking bodies left and right to stop crimes or help people out. The fact that he's doing so for completely frivolous reasons is the issue. Him taking the time to clarify that he "usually" likes to give these bodies a proper send-off rings completely hollow, practically a sick joke, considering they had all the time in the world to have done that while he was drinking hotel beer or having breakfast pancakes. As shown in the issue, he didn't even actually need a body to communicate with Diana at all in the first place...so like, literally the whole point of dragging some poor friendless schmuck's corpse across the world was for Boston to enjoy Swedish food? And Diana herself -- who comes from a culture for whom respecting the remains of the deceased is paramount -- is totally fine with it?

Add in the fact that this is depicted in an issue that's all about laying the dead to rest, honoring Siegfried's final moments? It's practically a self-own.

[Shimbo]

You have a problem with the Deadman concept then, since these writers gave plenty of reasons for how Deadman is doing his best in operating the way he does. I can agree with Gaius that they treat it somewhat flippantly, but I don't see how it's an ethical issue since this is not possible in real life or has a real life parallel. Spirits don't reanimate unknown corpses and go trailing around the world. This is the Deadman concept...he possesses people, usually living people. That's almost always without consent. So...it's an issue with the Deadman concept that you have a problem with. The writers didn't have him possess a random living dude, but the body of someone whose life was over. I argue that it's flippant because the writers want to exaggerate the fantastical effect/humor. You find it distasteful, which I guess I can understand, but he didn't mind warp someone living or manipulate them. Could he have maybe found their soul in the afterlife and asked, hey can I use your body to help out Wonder Woman and eat some food while we're at it? Sure. But had he not had a corporeal body, he wouldn't have been able to assist in the plane hijacking as we saw when he punched one of the Mirror Dianas. Like, the absurdity is baked into the concept of Deadman and plays into Boston's personality. Yeah, is it icky if we think about it? Would I want my corpse possessed and used for whatever when I'm dead? I mean, I want to be cremated so it wouldn't be an issue for me, per se. But this is Boston Brand's crazy "life" and these depictions flow naturally from the concept. And again, the writers went with a corpse instead of a living person, which is the option 99% of writers take with Boston because....of the Deadman concept. Could he have been some spirit just following Diana? I guess, yes. And that's what he did in the afterlife. But that's not what happened here and I don't particularly find it in bad taste. I think within the context of the DCU, it's darkly funny.

To each their own, though.

[Primal Slayer]

Never a dull day in the WW verse.

[Alpha]

There's a huge difference between wanting to talk about issues that are difficult versus highjacking those discussions to talk about ghosts. Forgive me if I can't take you seriously when you are worried about droids being treated as slaves within the Star Wars universe.

[Alpha]

There's a huge difference between wanting to talk about issues that are difficult versus highjacking those discussions to talk about ghosts. Forgive me if I can't take you seriously when you are worried about droids being treated as slaves within the Star Wars universe.

Which isn't to say that we can't discuss the moral implications of these silly ideas, or that writers can't put them into the stories. But you shouldn't pretend that these are real / important issues. And you can't complain about these things and expect others to take you seriously. Sexual consent is a serious issue, and it's important for the media we experience to address it in a conscious manner. None of those things apply to ghosts. It mights total sense for a writer to recognize how silly these things are and use them in a fun manner.

Hercules is a prime example of Wonder Woman comics exploring consent in a justifiably serious manner.

[John Venus]

But Deadman literally serves an hindu goddess who gave him a mission in the afterlife. Let's just say that she asks the souls of these dead bodies if they will allow Deadman to use them

It should be noted that Rama Kushna isn't an actual Goddess in Hindu Mythology and is a character DC came up with for Deadman.

It does come off as a bit flippant to me if I'm being honest. It doesn't ruin the run for me or anything but just seems territory that comes with Deadman honestly from the little I've seen of him. I remember the first time I watched him in the DCAU being a bit weirded out by him when he took control of all the Trinity's bodies.

That's part of Deadman's character. He's meant to be a working class average joe cursed with a terrible power. Possessing others is the only way he can ever meaningfully interact with anyone. I recently finished reading the Neal Adams series, which I checked out largely because of Deadman's appearance in WW and it's really quite good and it really sets up the character's internal struggle really well while he solves his own murder.

There was a great Christmas special where Deadman possesses a guy just so he can enjoy Christmas but leaves the dudes body once he realizes that he is robbing the guy of his life. Luckily he's comforted by the Pre Crisis Supergirl.

Some writers have tried to push his character further into darkness by having him have sex in a possessed body but imo, it's character derailment on par with Blood Knight WW. Boston only really works if he has a core decency to him as he tries to do the right thing in a black and gray world while using powers that are more of a curse than a gift.

[HestiasHearth]

How can someone whose dead give consent to their body being hijacked? This isn't a WW84 issue.

LOL
Deadman will have to change his whole schtick. I cannot imagine a live-action version of Deadman working today. The thinkpieces will be endless and relentless.

[SJNeal]

It should be noted that Rama Kushna isn't an actual Goddess in Hindu Mythology and is a character DC came up with for Deadman.

Therein lies another can of worms, I'm sure...

Anyways, really liked #782. I can't remember the last time a WW creative team kept me engaged for so many consecutive issues (Simone or Azzarello probably?).

[Alpha]

LOL
Deadman will have to change his whole schtick. I cannot imagine a live-action version of Deadman working today. The thinkpieces will be endless and relentless.

There are lots of stories about good spirits inhabiting people, or characters that occupy someone else's bodies. It's a silly concept and the "online discussions" are even more ridiculous because people convince themselves this is an actually important conversation about "consent in media", when it isn't in any way. It's as "serious" as robot slavery in Star Wars.

Therein lies another can of worms, I'm sure...

Anyways, really liked #782. I can't remember the last time a WW creative team kept me engaged for so many consecutive issues (Simone or Azzarello probably?).

I don't see what's problematic about inventing an Hindu goddess. There are hundreds of them right? People often criticize how western media mischaracterizes other cultures, wouldn't using an actual deity in this manner be much more problematic?

[Agent Z]

There are lots of stories about good spirits inhabiting people, or characters that occupy someone else's bodies. It's a silly concept and the "online discussions" are even more ridiculous because people convince themselves this is an actually important conversation about "consent in media", when it isn't in any way. It's as "serious" as robot slavery in Star Wars.



I don't see what's problematic about inventing an Hindu goddess. There are hundreds of them right? People often criticize how western media mischaracterizes other cultures, wouldn't using an actual deity in this manner be much more problematic?

Creating a deity that is tied to a real life religion isn't any better. They'd have been better off leaving Hindu mythology out of it entirely.