New WW Creative Team: Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad and Travis Moore

[Perseus]

It's so tiring being right all the time about the problems in this book.

[Perseus]

I'm so tired of this "perpetual victim who needs to be saved" version of Barbara. Can't she just go back to the roots and be an evil schemer who likes stealing stuff from other cultures?

How many mass murders you think Barbara's gonna commit before Diana stops treating her like a bestie you had a small beef with like 2 years ago?

Edit: She really is the Joker to Diana's Batman lmao

[I'm a Fish]

I'm so tired of this "perpetual victim who needs to be saved" version of Barbara. Can't she just go back to the roots and be an evil schemer who likes stealing stuff from other cultures?

This is the second time Cale trapped her in a cage...like, How?

[Koriand'r]

This is the second time Cale trapped her in a cage...like, How?

Cale is a doctor with low morals and her own pharmaceutical company. She drugs her. I'm just glad Cloonrad didn't have Diana call Cheetah "Barbara Ann" I aways read it in the voice of the little psychic lady in Poltergeist calling out to Carol Ann "Come to the light Barbara Ann!". It's annoying.

Superman came as a pleasant surprise, despite rebooted continuity he and Diana still have chemistry.

[Sebastianne]

It seemed to me a good almost resolution of the situation, I agree with the complaint of many regarding Diana and her little importance in the lives of the rest of the people.
Regarding the redemption arc that others complain about, I don't think it's an issue here either, and at least it hints that Cheetah wants revenge on those who did that to her, and for that alone she would join forces with Diana and her team.
Finally, I am glad of the return of the not so fierce Cheetah, I never really liked Rucka's version, nor Perez's, I always preferred that more relaxed and irreverent version shown by Heinberg or Gail Simone, and which is quite similar to the version of the last pages of this number.

This is the second time Cale trapped her in a cage...like, How?

At one point it is made clear that Cale Industries is only providing security for the place, not that Veronica has caged Dr. Minerva.

[Sebastianne]

Oh and I forgot to mention the back up story, what the hell happened there??
I don't want to speculate on anything but I need the resolution of that story now!

[John Venus]

I'm so tired of this "perpetual victim who needs to be saved" version of Barbara. Can't she just go back to the roots and be an evil schemer who likes stealing stuff from other cultures?

I agree, there is so much potential in colonizer Barbara Minerva. Make her an evil Lara Croft.

[BrianWilly]

Ahh, I kinda liked this. Not all of this arc was ideal, but I like the idea of slowly moving us away from Rucka Cheetah and into more of her post-Crisis vibe. And I like that this time, finally, one of Diana's heartfelt attempts to help Cheetah actually...kinda worked? Sorta? Like, she's not cured or whatever, but it's still a big step up from the dozen other times that Diana made the effort and came away with nothing.

Still, major wtf moment at Diana suggesting to Cheetah that Steve would never give up on her either, like...what? Etta, sure, but Steve? Really? Barbara could rot and Steve wouldn't bat an eye lol. She could be drowning in a lake and Steve'd be like new phone who dis? I thought you couldn't tell lies, Diana.

[HestiasHearth]

I had several issues with the book that mirror opinions already presented here: I am so tired of victimized, "woe is me," easily caged Cheetah! Also, I am definitely not crazy about how Diana sicced Barbara and her blood-thirsty rage on those non-Meta men (or how she seemed to have no problem with the Esquecida unleashing a flurry of arrows on those other non-Meta men). When are the powers that be going to stop perpetuating this whole "Diana is the only member of the Trinity who will kill without missing a beat because she is a warrior" thing?? Ugh. Diana is so much more complex than that. One thing I was thrilled about though??? She was not using a breathing apparatus out there in space!!! Maybe I missed it, but when did DC finally decide to show the daughter of Gaea, who literally emerged from the womb of the Earth (Zeus' daughter who?? Girl bye!), as being able to breathe in space?? I am living for this!!!!!

Also...that purple hair on Dal made me nervous. lol

[Koriand'r]

I had several issues with the book that mirror opinions already presented here: I am so tired of victimized, "woe is me," easily caged Cheetah! Also, I am definitely not crazy about how Diana sicced Barbara and her blood-thirsty rage on those non-Meta men (or how she seemed to have no problem with the Esquecida unleashing a flurry of arrows on those other non-Meta men). When are the powers that be going to stop perpetuating this whole "Diana is the only member of the Trinity who will kill without missing a beat because she is a warrior" thing?? Ugh.

I'm fine with it, say what you will but the violence added an edge to the book that wouldn't be there otherwise. In war you have collateral damage, don't kidnap Cheetah and drug people on a massive scale and think there won't be any consequences.

[BrianWilly]

To me those arrows were about as lethal as Green Arrow's arrows usually are. The Esquecidas know how to avoid important organs

[HestiasHearth]

To me those arrows were about as lethal as Green Arrow's arrows usually are. The Esquecidas know how to avoid important organs

LOL True daT!!

[Robanker]

I'm so tired of this "perpetual victim who needs to be saved" version of Barbara. Can't she just go back to the roots and be an evil schemer who likes stealing stuff from other cultures?

Not to mention it robs Diana of her most iconic villain as a true foil to stand with Lex and Joker. Hell, Thawne has kind of eclipsed her as a villain because they're not trying to redeem him. You can make all the cases you want for a compassionate Diana, but each hero needs their ruthless, unique rival and Ares just ain't it. They need to push Barbara to better be Diana's antithesis.

Circe is good, but I think being a public domain character takes some of the edge off. Victim Barbara has run her course. I love her but she doesn't have the cultural resonance of Cheetah.

[bardkeep]

Not to mention it robs Diana of her most iconic villain as a true foil to stand with Lex and Joker. Hell, Thawne has kind of eclipsed her as a villain because they're not trying to redeem him. You can make all the cases you want for a compassionate Diana, but each hero needs their ruthless, unique rival and Ares just ain't it. They need to push Barbara to better be Diana's antithesis.

Circe is good, but I think being a public domain character takes some of the edge off. Victim Barbara has run her course. I love her but she doesn't have the cultural resonance of Cheetah.

I think Ares as her archnemesis is as integral to the character as Joker being Batman's, and there's a reason why he's been in that role since Marston. His iconography is tied to patriarchy and oppression, and he was invoked in a lot of 1st wave feminist imagery. But he's a very different kind of villain than Lex or Joker - the rivalry isn't personal, it's yin and yang. Superman and Batman don't have parallels to that because they're not so fundamentally tied to an ideology.

But sadly I think Real Threat Cheetah may be a lost cause. People know her because of Super Friends, but this is the reputation she's always had and WW84 crystalized it:



Victim Barbara was the first Cheetah in a really long time to make people care about her and feel invested in her as a villain, for better or worse. She'd pretty much been relegated to the Giganta role of resident lackey and punching bag before Rucka gave her pathos. I'm also sick of female villains being turned into victims, but it's a major uphill battle to salvage her reputation as a powerhouse when even WW writers don't even acknowledge it and no one realizes that she's supposed to be brilliant.

That said, I actually really like Circe as her main villain after Ares. I don't mind that she's in the public domain - in fact, I actually like that her deal and what she represents are self-evident. People immediately associate her with gender dynamics, but she settles her beef with patriarchy by luring men in and turning them into pigs while Diana tries to make the world better. Makes perfect sense that she'd really get under Diana's skin, plus the fact that she's consistently depicted as gleefully evil and hedonistic makes her a delightful foil. I also like that Diana has to rely on her wits to fight her because she's crazy powerful in a way that can't be challenged with fists.

I think at one point Phil Jimenez said "Ares is Wonder Woman's greatest enemy, Circe is Diana's greatest enemy" and that's how I feel as well.

[HestiasHearth]

Ironcally, the first time I stopped caring about Cheetah was when the writers turned her into Diana's bestie or whatever. After all these years, devious, evil Lara Croft Barbara Minerva is the best Cheetah for my money.

I know that Diana should try to look for the best in all her villains, and try to reform them, but imagine what boring tales she would have if she succeeded doing that 100 % of the time.