New WW Creative Team: Becky Cloonan, Michael Conrad and Travis Moore

[SiegePerilous02]

I love Cale a lot in his second run, and she's now in my top 5 WW villains (probably after Cheetah and Circe).

I agree the push for her as arch enemy is Rucka reaching too high, but since Cheetah is also a major player (if not a bigger one) in the run, he may have undermined his own efforts. In which case, Cale makes a convincing #2 (or 3 depending on Circe's status) in the rogues gallery

[I'm a Fish]

I love Cale a lot in his second run, and she's now in my top 5 WW villains (probably after Cheetah and Circe).

I agree the push for her as arch enemy is Rucka reaching too high, but since Cheetah is also a major player (if not a bigger one) in the run, he may have undermined his own efforts. In which case, Cale makes a convincing #2 (or 3 depending on Circe's status) in the rogues gallery

Going back and reading his old run with Cale is like, "Who dis?" He definitely improved her the second time around. But it does feel like in both his runs he was trying to push her into a mold she wasn't going to fit. I think, now-a-day's especially, people want an archenemy for Diana who is a physical and psychological threat. Cale can only be the latter.

But yeah, if his goal was to make Cale Diana's archenemy, he shouldn't have written Barbara so well, lol.

[Gaius]

Going back and reading his old run with Cale is like, "Who dis?" He definitely improved her the second time around. But it does feel like in both his runs he was trying to push her into a mold she wasn't going to fit. I think, now-a-day's especially, people want an archenemy for Diana who is a physical and psychological threat. Cale can only be the latter.

But yeah, if his goal was to make Cale Diana's archenemy, he shouldn't have written Barbara so well, lol.

Cale in his first run is weird. If I didn't know he created her, I'd have figured it was character inherited from a previous run who he didn't like.

Though I didn't mind her there even if her second go was much better.

[Artemisfanboy]

It would upend all of her villains as well as Steve and Etta. You can't have modern day Steve and Etta anymore, (unless they become Legacy character somehow) or she met them 60 years after arriving in mans-world, and Steve never had the plane crash.

Cheetah's origin would also get retconned. Johns was the one who started the "Barbara is Diana's first friend" aspect, which he would probably want to continue. And I know Barbara's his favorite so he'd probably drag her back to WWII some extent. Barbara's Cheetah is immortal so it could work.

For most of her other villains you'd have to go the Legacy route or have them be newer villains to the established continuity. Cale's origin would need retconning as well unless she's erased, and by extension Dr. Cyber and Dr. Poison. You could easily do the Legacy route with Poison though.

So you'd somehow have to create the illusion of 80 years of history when there isn't any. Unless you make all of her comics cannon again, which would be a mess.

So either they would have to completely reboot everything or fit it in some other way, since in and after issue #750 there are still plot points that directly mention events that happened in Rebirth. And since WW Rebirth itself is build on the shaky ground of Nu52 that would put a confusing situation on top of another confusing situation. Rebirth turned parts of Nu52 into some sort of a fever dream and sort-of pulled it off, but a fever dream on top of a fever dream sounds like a bad idea.

So yeah, just leave Year One with some minor tweaks would be the best route for me. It's comics so I expect soft reboots. They can also make it so Diana has her past lives memories but the continuity she lives in is Rebirth.

Modern Etta and Golden age Etta are different enough in characterization and and appearance they can be made separate characters. Steve is a harder one. You either need to dedicate him to one era or find some way to have him displaced in time. I admit I don't have an easy answer to this.

I'll admit I wasn't really giving much thought to the villains. But thinking of how the versions from Godwatch could be adapted...

Cale's story could be re written to maintain the broad strokes. Ares can be sealed in Themyscira at a later date requiring it to be cut off later rather than at the beginning. Enter Phobos and Deimos stealing Izzy's soul/face and coercing Cale into helping them. This likewise leads to the New Dr. Cyber's origin, who could very well be a separate character from the previous version given she does not share the same real name as her (The Earth One and Post crisis incarnations were name Cylvia Anita Cyber, as opposed to the new Adrianna Anderson). The main retcon is Cale's feud and the amount of time Izzy spends being cursed would be highly compressed and cut down. Her small part in leading Barbara to becoming the Cheetah would also have to be removed. This plan works even if we don't want to move her origin back to WWII, but still wish to retroactively restore Diana's ability to visit Themyscira in the past, such as to accommodate Orlando's flashbacks. Would this be a minor tweak/ soft reboot/ retcon you'd find acceptable?

Barbara would likely have to have her status as Diana's first friend downgraded, But she could still be a good friend of Diana's. Going back to the above, Cale's small part in funding the expedition that lead to Barbara becoming the Cheetah will have to be removed, but Phobos and Deimos indicate she likely would have become the Cheetah anyway, and they just insured and accelerated it at most, and it's ambiguous what they did beside give Barbara the money for the expedition. Alternatively Barbara might end up being moved closer to her pre-flashpoint version in backstory and history.

[SiegePerilous02]

I'd really rather not remove Cale funding Barbara's expedition. I like the link between them and the ongoing feud that resulted. I'm honestly way more interested in that than the idea of restoring any WWII era history to main line Diana. It'd be kind of a downgrade for me.

[Artemisfanboy]

I'd really rather not remove Cale funding Barbara's expedition. I like the link between them and the ongoing feud that resulted. I'm honestly way more interested in that than the idea of restoring any WWII era history to main line Diana. It'd be kind of a downgrade for me.

Likewise, my primary desire is keeping the work Orlando did fixing Donna and was slightly reinforced by Endless Winter. If I have to choose, I'm picking Donna being Diana's younger adopted sister and raised and trained by Hippolyta, Diana and the Amazons over Cale funding Barbara Minerva. Donna's sisterly relationship to Diana takes precedence over Cale and Barbara having a business relationship and feud.

[Robanker]

Y'all trying to leave the JSA on Earth 2 and only there should be ashamed of yourselves. There's room for them in every Earth.

The vibe I got was modern age in the center of the image, golden age on the left and Earth 2 on the right. They didn't have one of the most successful iterations, the first Johns run, on there so I don't think it's intended to be comprehensive.

[SiegePerilous02]

Likewise, my primary desire is keeping the work Orlando did fixing Donna and was slightly reinforced by Endless Winter. If I have to choose, I'm picking Donna being Diana's younger adopted sister and raised and trained by Hippolyta, Diana and the Amazons over Cale funding Barbara Minerva. Donna's sisterly relationship to Diana takes precedence over Cale and Barbara having a business relationship and feud.

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive though. I'm a bigger fan of Barbara than Donna and didn't check out what Orlando did, but I know Rebirth screwed the pooch with Donna in general and Abnett established a crappy origin with no editors taking advantage of Year One's fix Donna. I imagine Orlando did the best with the material he was given, but it shouldn't have been necessary

Donna should just be Diana's adopted younger sister and Year One can be left as the origin in the present day. I don't see an upside to tweaking Diana's origin yet again when we essentially just had one, and WWII didn't play a part in Donna's origins. I'd rather a patron God rescue Donna and call it a day. The stuff we'd have to do for Steve to be in multiple eras and legacy villains to fit it all in would result in needless headaches

[Artemisfanboy]

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive though. I'm a bigger fan of Barbara than Donna and didn't check out what Orlando did, but I know Rebirth screwed the pooch with Donna in general and Abnett established a crappy origin with no editors taking advantage of Year One's fix Donna. I imagine Orlando did the best with the material he was given, but it shouldn't have been necessary

Donna should just be Diana's adopted younger sister and Year One can be left as the origin in the present day. I don't see an upside to tweaking Diana's origin yet again when we essentially just had one, and WWII didn't play a part in Donna's origins. I'd rather a patron God rescue Donna and call it a day. The stuff we'd have to do for Steve to be in multiple eras and legacy villains to fit it all in would result in needless headaches

Year One didn't provide much an opportunity to fix Donna. It's clear Rucka wanted Diana to have been Hippolyta's only daughter and the only child on Themyscira and that Diana had never had any experience with anyone younger than her. He clearly gave no thought to Donna at all. In fact I suspect a lack of communication and/or compromise between Rucka and Abnett during Rebirth is what ended screwing over Donna. Abnett seemed to be going in the direction of making Donna Diana's adopted sister, until the Titan's annual, which suddenly backed out of it in a away that didn't really make any sense and an actual origin that would make sense was never provided. I suspect Abnett and Rucka were developing their ideas separate from each other and by the time editorial noticed a conflict, it was very late with things having been published contradicting each other, and they chose to back out of fixing Donna and keeping Rucka's set up for Diana instead of trying to find away to force the two together. As a result Donna's origin got kicked into limbo until Doomsday Clock and #750 gave them a license to change things.

At the very least you're calling for a do-over on fixing Donna, which suffice to say I'm warry about. Perhaps retconning the parts Year One so we could retroactively insert Donna on the island as Diana's adopted sister to have been preferable. But instead we got Orlando's retcons, which were pretty good in my book and nailed the essential points of Donna's origin for me. Given DC's track record with things, and my theories of what went on behind the scenes in Rebirth, I fear that choosing to double down on Rucka's run would lead to Donna being screwed over again. Yes, they can cherry pick to get rid of and retcon the parts of Rucka's run that would block Donna from being Diana's younger sister either way whether you want to hold to Orlando's outline or try another do over. But I'm imagining from experience that it's more likely they screw Donna over in the name of returning to Rucka's run 100% instead of with any set of retcons needed.

You're right that we don't need to move Diana back to WWII, and I'm not really attached to that. That could be dropped for all I care. But I do care about keeping Donna's current origin unless they could and would replace it with a better one still keeping Donna as Diana's younger adopted sister.

[BiteTheBullet]

This wasn't about me wanting Diana to look like a body builder, I want her to look like those female wrestlers in Olympic games.

I am not sure by what you mean as a female Olympic wrestler. Can you give an example of either a celebrity or an athlete with this physique in mind?

[Alpha]

I am not sure by what you mean as a female Olympic wrestler. Can you give an example of either a celebrity or an athlete with this physique in mind?

In terms of comics think of how Darwyn Cooke, Drew Johnson and Bryan Hitch draw Wonder Woman.

But in real life think of Helen Maroulis. The first american woman to win a gold medal in freestyle wrestling at the Summer Olympics.

rsz_helen-maroulis-match.jpg
pwl3-beach-wrestling-14.jpg

Wide shoulders, thick legs, strong torso, full arms. Her body is built for strength and agility.

[Alpha]

Wonder Woman is supposed to break gender molds. Artists should draw her like the rarest form the female body can achieve. The body type you never see in media.

[Gaius]

Wonder Woman 777

story by BECKY CLOONAN AND MICHAEL W. CONRAD; JORDIE BELLAIRE
art by EMANUELA LUPACCHINO AND WADE VON GRAWBADGER; PAULINA GANUCHEAU
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
ON SALE 8/10/21
$4.99 US | 40 PAGES | FC | DC
card stock variant by SEBASTIAN FIUMARA US $5.99
Suicide Squad Movie card stock variant by WILL MURAI US $5.99

Wonder Woman learns the hard way that fairies are never to be trusted when her promised trip home takes a sharp left turn in the Multiverse!
Welcome to Earth-11, headquarters of the Justice Guild. In this alternate version of Diana's Earth, the Amazons of Themyscira imposed their law on the entire world, and the course of history was changed forever! Sounds like a dream afterlife for our hero, but Janus has somehow managed to poison this paradise. Dane of Elysium, a.k.a. Wonder Man, is on a violent rampage, and it's now up to Wonder Woman to bring him in and clear her name!

Back on Earth-0, Young Diana learns the real story behind the creation of Paradise Island and the price paid for freedom. Will she ever trust the elders again? Or are the lies too much for the princess to handle?

Wonder Woman 778

story by BECKY CLOONAN AND MICHAEL W. CONRAD; JORDIE BELLAIRE
art by TRAVIS MOORE; PAULINA GANUCHEAU
cover by TRAVIS MOORE
ON SALE 8/24/21
$4.99 US | 40 PAGES | FC | DC
card stock variant by BECKY CLOONAN
US $5.99

Hot on the trail of Janus, Diana and her allies embark on a whirlwind adventure through the entire map of the Multiverse!
Phantom Zone, Fifth Dimension, and Gemworld…oh my! Like the future, Janus's path through space and time is unpredictable. Will Wonder Woman ever catch her? Or could this be the end of everything as we know it?!
The tale behind Paradise Island's creation continues as Hippolyta's greatest regret is revealed. Can Diana forgive her mother for the past? And what does this revelation mean for the future of the Amazons?

[I'm a Fish]

Ok, so the Roman god is Janus, not Mars. Interesting.

And we're going to Gemworld? HELL YEAH!

Edit: Also Travis Moore in doing interiors again starting at 778.

[Avi]

DC is really embracing the Multiverse. Lovely. And didn't we just talk about a Male Wonder?