Should Maxwell Lord Be Redeemed?

[kalai]

I mean, right now, DC seems to think Max's only thing is his neck and Wonder Woman,
that's just boring.
Are they gonna do a Dark Princess Wonder Woman Who Snaps Necks?

[DrNewGod]

I voted no, but only b/c there was no Ambivalence option. Honestly, I hope they won't do anything with Max. Didn't like him from Appearance One, and it never got any better.

[Celgress]

I vote no; he's better as a villain IMO.

[Cyberstrike]

I don't care, just get him out of my Wonder Woman content.

The reason why Max Lord is a now a WW villain is because her rouges galley (that doesn't include Greek gods and demi-gods like Ares and Hercules) is pretty weak especially when compared to rouges galley of Superman, Batman, and The Flash each one of having some iconic villains while WW has the Cheetah and Dr. Poison (who was a villain so obscure that I have never heard of her before the movie) he was also a villain/antagonist in season 1 of Supergirl who along with Cat Grant did sort of redeem him at the end of the first season. Also Wonder Woman did break his neck in the build up to Infinite Crisis and that does tend to piss guys like Max Lord off.

[Gaius]

The reason why Max Lord is a now a WW villain is because her rouges galley (that doesn't include Greek gods and demi-gods like Ares and Hercules) is pretty weak especially when compared to rouges galley of Superman, Batman, and The Flash each one of having some iconic villains while WW has the Cheetah and Dr. Poison (who was a villain so obscure that I have never heard of her before the movie) he was also a villain/antagonist in season 1 of Supergirl who along with Cat Grant did sort of redeem him at the end of the first season. Also Wonder Woman did break his neck in the build up to Infinite Crisis and that does tend to piss guys like Max Lord off.

And? Actually develop and use her own original villains. Rather than porting over a C-list Luthor with hair.

Not like it’s been done before, Mr. Freeze is probably the poster child for taking a one-note C-lister into a rogue mainstay. Even Mark Waid thought most of the Flash’s rogues were Silver Age relics and planned to kill them off.

[Agent Z]

The reason why Max Lord is a now a WW villain is because her rouges galley (that doesn't include Greek gods and demi-gods like Ares and Hercules) is pretty weak especially when compared to rouges galley of Superman, Batman, and The Flash each one of having some iconic villains while WW has the Cheetah and Dr. Poison (who was a villain so obscure that I have never heard of her before the movie) he was also a villain/antagonist in season 1 of Supergirl who along with Cat Grant did sort of redeem him at the end of the first season. Also Wonder Woman did break his neck in the build up to Infinite Crisis and that does tend to piss guys like Max Lord off.

So make him a Supergirl villain then.

[Tzigone]

The reason why Max Lord is a now a WW villain is because her rouges galley (that doesn't include Greek gods and demi-gods like Ares and Hercules) is pretty weak especially when compared to rouges galley of Superman, Batman, and The Flash each one of having some iconic villains while WW has the Cheetah and Dr. Poison (who was a villain so obscure that I have never heard of her before the movie) he was also a villain/antagonist in season 1 of Supergirl who along with Cat Grant did sort of redeem him at the end of the first season. Also Wonder Woman did break his neck in the build up to Infinite Crisis and that does tend to piss guys like Max Lord off.

You are correct. But I agree with Gaius -develop her own villains. I think Max, if he is a villain, would work much better for Ted or for any former JLI member than for WW, too. If he's going to be a great villain to benefit someone, it should be one of them.

I really do like characters having their own villains instead of grabbing them from other titles (sadly, Supergirl also ended up with him in her show for lack of many rogues, as did Ollie for many of his in the show). Also, recently they've given WW spin-off villains (Grail, then Max's daughter), and I'm quite opposed to that, too. I don't think heroes should be dealing with spin-off villains, really (so therefore don't generally think they should exist) as they are typically explicitly second-tier to their origin-villain and I don't want second-tier status rubbing off on the hero.

[maxax]

You are correct. But I agree with Gaius -develop her own villains. I think Max, if he is a villain, would work much better for Ted or for any former JLI member than for WW, too. If he's going to be a great villain to benefit someone, it should be one of them.

I really do like characters having their own villains instead of grabbing them from other titles (sadly, Supergirl also ended up with him in her show for lack of many rogues, as did Ollie for many of his in the show). Also, recently they've given WW spin-off villains (Grail, then Max's daughter), and I'm quite opposed to that, too. I don't think heroes should be dealing with spin-off villains, really (so therefore don't generally think they should exist) as they are typically explicitly second-tier to their origin-villain and I don't want second-tier status rubbing off on the hero.

It seems like Ted fans want him but Diana fans really don't. I wish DC would see that and take note but unfortunately.
We have scenes like the one in Heroes in Crisis where the writer is referring to Ted saying "You're not the only one who's been betrayed by a friend. Had the person they thought they could trust forever end their life." And that dynamic is just inherently more interesting than "Max is mad because Diana broke his neck", especially since the Infinite Crisis Dark Multiverse issue said that had Ted agreed to join Max he would have been made White King, and I would never have expected Max to allow someone to be his equal with his modern portrayal.
It feels like there's so much you can explore with them that Max just doesn't have with Diana, and maybe he'd work better as the arch-enemy of a b-list character than a minor nuisance to a member of the trinity.

[SiegePerilous02]

The reason why Max Lord is a now a WW villain is because her rouges galley (that doesn't include Greek gods and demi-gods like Ares and Hercules) is pretty weak especially when compared to rouges galley of Superman, Batman, and The Flash each one of having some iconic villains while WW has the Cheetah and Dr. Poison (who was a villain so obscure that I have never heard of her before the movie) he was also a villain/antagonist in season 1 of Supergirl who along with Cat Grant did sort of redeem him at the end of the first season. Also Wonder Woman did break his neck in the build up to Infinite Crisis and that does tend to piss guys like Max Lord off.

WW's villains are not inherently weaker or goofier than someone like Batman's, but they get used and developed far less. The solution would be to build them up more by using them. The Flash's Rogues didn't have a great reputation before Johns to the point that the Flash's definitive writer Mark Waid though they were lame. Even if they suck, the solution is to create more within her IP rather than grabbing some from elsewhere. Yeah, IC was a big story, but it was also a dumb one that hijacked one of her best runs so she shouldn't be beholden to it. He's also redundant even among the few iconic villain she has because she already has Psycho.

He's in the movie, but it's something WW fans are tolerating at best because of Pedro Pascal playing him and we're getting a villain who actually belongs there (Cheetah) in the mix as well.

[The Darknight Detective]

Redeemed? No. His crimes retconned out? Sure.

BTW, there should be a CB law that nobody can go the heel route beyond two years as a character.* Only characters made specifically for that role need apply.

* Anyone who has had their own magazine should, never get that treatment, regardless of time.

[titanfan]

There's been some cool WW villains I think that have been introduced. But for whatever reasons, every time WW gets a new writer they prefer to develop their old villains instead of using existing ones. (Other than Cheetah/Circe/Ares).

WW has some good cool concept villains that have basically had one storyline and that's it.

[Stanlos]

I think that on average, Geoff Johns is a decent enough writer, but his retcon that Maxwell Lord was a villain might possibly have been the worst thing to come out of Infinite Crisis. Lord was always portrayed as morally grey character, but it was abundantly clear that he cared about his teammates. At his heart, Maxwell Lord was a good person. Hell, the entire Breakdowns crossover between Justice League America and Justice League Europe was built around the fact that readers wanted Maxwell Lord to recover from his coma.

I think that redeeming Lord by retconning his actions in Countdown to Infinite Crisis as a form of mind control would be easy enough. However, do you think it's too late to redeem Maxwell Lord?

I think doing so would further tarnish everyone involved.

[AJpyro]

I voted yes but really I want his villain tenure to be retconned into oblivion. Infinite Crisis was NOT worth it.

[G-Man34]

I voted no, because I think he works better as a villain, and I read the old JLI comics. He had signs of being manipulative from the beginning like arranging the Royal Flush Gang to attack the team so Booster Gold could "audition"

[Psy-lock]

They should just say that he was never a villain in the first place and was brainwashed by Dr Psycho to ruin Wonder Woman's reputation