Should Maxwell Lord Be Redeemed?

[Agent Z]

Kyrptonian Hello? Is that the standard throat grab and lift to intimidate thing, or the MoS Snap? I mean, half the time they do that grab and lift thing, they probably kill the person they do it to anyway...

Don't try to make any sense of what pinsir says.

[caj]

Maxwell Lord was secretly captured and replaced by another Maxwell Lord from the Crime Syndicate's Earth. When he gets free, he's a bit pouty about how the guy running around calling himself Maxwell Lord was a compeltley different person and nobody noticed.

This gets my vote.

[Pinsir]

Kyrptonian Hello? Is that the standard throat grab and lift to intimidate thing, or the MoS Snap? I mean, half the time they do that grab and lift thing, they probably kill the person they do it to anyway...

You know...like a little chiropractic malpractice, or some creative anatomical restructuring between his head and shoulders, or the Amazonian gesture for peace...

[Hulkout42]

Nope, guy has a Messiah complex where he thinks doing terrible things good reasons will somehow vindicate his actions.

[ducklord]

I honestly don't know.

His original heel turn made almost no sense (it wasn't "Hal Jordan killing spree" bad, or "Monarch is Hawk even though he categorically can't be" bad, but it stunk to high heaven at the time, and no one involved with writing it seemed to be able to defend it), so there's a strong nostalgic pull to undo it. I love the Earth-3 suggestion, personally... it's a wonderfully Giffen-esque punchline to the whole affair.

That said, Max has been a bad guy for 15 years... almost as long as he was a good guy. Unless there's a REALLY good story to be told, it'd be hard to unwind without indulging in a lot of fan-wankery.

Meh

[Eskana]

At this point, even with reboots etc., I don't really see how they can make Max a good guy. The closest he can get is gray, more on the dark side. Originally he was gray, but more on the light side. Like many people, I've read plenty of JLI, and I just don't think you can ever say Max was ever completely a good guy.... his original story had him plotting to murder his boss (although, technically, by the end of the story he just left the guy to die alone probably of dehydration... so, not murder?)
I think the twist of Max being evil was pretty believable, helped later by retcons, but I don't think that there's any reason he can't come partially back. Especially since Ted's alive again, and if we're going with the story from Rebirth, Max probably didn't kill him. (According to Rebirth, Ted was never even IN the Justice League.)

But he should DEFINITELY not be considered a WW villain... so sick of hearing that. He's a JLI villain, or a Blue and Gold villain, if anything.

[Doctor Know]

Go the Marvel, the character is a Skrull route.

Maxwell Lord has been a White Martian for decades. Since the original Death of Superman, when he got more psychic powers. Hell, make Max a victim of the original Doomsday rampage, and that White Martian has been masquerading as a dead man for years.


Give us a conclusion to Justice League Generation Lost's cliffhanger while you're at it.

[Thor-Ul]

He has been supplanted by the Maxwell Lord from earth 3, that is the best option.
That or being controled by the Kil%gre.

[Jabare]

well this thread aged poorly, not sure how this is still a discussion after the latest Wonder Woman film

[Captain Nostalgia]

No. I can't get over the Ted Kord killing. It's not just that he killed Ted Kord, but the way he did it with the six shooter.

No redemption for Maxwell Lord, he must suffer and remain evil, lol.

[married guy]

His villainous turn in Countdown made me double check I hadn't missed anything.
Max was always portrayed a little grey, sometimes sleazy, but never outright evil.
As a reader of the Justice League books, I couldn't swallow him putting a bullet in Ted's head.
Alan2099's solution is brilliant as it erases a major character heelturn while also tapping into the absurdity that was Justice League America/International/Europe.

[Doctor Know]

Question:
Does anyone remember the character they planned on using for Checkmate and Project OMAC portion in the lead up to Infinite Crisis?

I recall reading on these boards that Max was chosen instead because it would be a biggest twist and he had a higher profile than the other character. Who editors and writers feared was too obscure for the series betrayal stories they were publishing at the time.



Jean Loring betrays the trust of Ray and the League (including their significant others) and murders Sue Dibney in Identity Crisis.

The JL betrays Batman in the mindwipe retcon in Identity Crisis.

Connor Kent and Indigo betray the TT and the Outsiders in the "Insiders" arc.

The Specter betrays his mission and goes on a rampage murdering magic user's across the world.

Maxwell Lord betrays the JL, murders Ted Kord and thousands more with his OMAC project.

Blackfire betrays the Carter Hall, Kendra and Kyle Rayner when murders Shayera Thal during the Rann-Thanagar War.

Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor Jr. betray all their former allies to set in motion the Infinite Crisis.

[RobinGA]

I voted no.

While I believe everyone can theoretically be redeemed, it doesn't seem to work in this case.
Just spare me the anti-hero, we have had enough of that lately.

[I'm a Fish]

I new Lord as "that guy Wonder Woman killed" before I ever knew his name...

I never read JLI, and he's always been a pain in the butt over in Wonder Woman comics, so frankly I don't care what they do with him as long as he stopped being in Wonder Woman comics.

Diana already has a sociopathic billionaire in Veronica Cale, and a mind-controlling misogynists in Dr. Psycho. I don't see Max adding anything to her comic those two haven't already done outside of getting his neck snapped again.

They even gave him a daughter to try and make him more interesting, but it didn't, because he was an estranged father who would rather kill his kid than have any complex internal struggle and he wasn't even manacle in a fun sort-of way. So it feels like no one knows what to do with him at this point, but I think pushing him out of Wonder Woman's books would be a start.

[Timothy Hunter]

Question:
Does anyone remember the character they planned on using for Checkmate and Project OMAC portion in the lead up to Infinite Crisis?

I recall reading on these boards that Max was chosen instead because it would be a biggest twist and he had a higher profile than the other character. Who editors and writers feared was too obscure for the series betrayal stories they were publishing at the time.



Jean Loring betrays the trust of Ray and the League (including their significant others) and murders Sue Dibney in Identity Crisis.

The JL betrays Batman in the mindwipe retcon in Identity Crisis.

Connor Kent and Indigo betray the TT and the Outsiders in the "Insiders" arc.

The Specter betrays his mission and goes on a rampage murdering magic user's across the world.

Maxwell Lord betrays the JL, murders Ted Kord and thousands more with his OMAC project.

Blackfire betrays the Carter Hall, Kendra and Kyle Rayner when murders Shayera Thal during the Rann-Thanagar War.

Superboy Prime and Alexander Luthor Jr. betray all their former allies to set in motion the Infinite Crisis.

Loren Jupiter. Financer of the Bronze Age Teen Titans.