How many super hero tropes did Action movies steal before superhero movies?

[The Cool Thatguy]

Just something I've thought about from time to time.

It seems to me that a lot of action movies seem to take from superhero tropes, even it makes little to no sense.

Take Mission Impossible. Even though Ethan Hunt is an agent of the government, when he gets married, she's targeted and nearly killed. Everyone knows who Hunt is despite being, ya know, a spy. And in his backstory, he retires but apparently that resulted in a rise in terrorism, at which point he had to put the fake masks back on.

Or John McClane. In Die Hard with a Vengeance, just saving the day twice has destroyed his life and marriage.

Repeat action stars all seem to have Parker luck, even when the internal logic doesn't really work. Thoughts?

[Kirby101]

Joseph Campbell, it's all heroes' stories, not just super ones.

[DrNewGod]

Joseph Campbell, it's all heroes' stories, not just super ones.

Or in the common tongue, action movies didn't hijack comic books, they both hijacked campfire stories.

[ed2962]

Just something I've thought about from time to time.

It seems to me that a lot of action movies seem to take from superhero tropes, even it makes little to no sense.

Take Mission Impossible. Even though Ethan Hunt is an agent of the government, when he gets married, she's targeted and nearly killed. Everyone knows who Hunt is despite being, ya know, a spy. And in his backstory, he retires but apparently that resulted in a rise in terrorism, at which point he had to put the fake masks back on.

Or John McClane. In Die Hard with a Vengeance, just saving the day twice has destroyed his life and marriage.

Repeat action stars all seem to have Parker luck, even when the internal logic doesn't really work. Thoughts?

I'm not sure that a guy getting a divorce is unique to superhero stories...

[Zauriel]

I'm not sure that a guy getting a divorce is unique to superhero stories...

Yeah, how many married men did NOT get a divorce in superhero stories? Last time I heard, Reed Richards is still married.

Peter Parker, Clint Barton/Hawkeye, Johnny Storm, Bruce Banner, T'Challa, Scott Summers and etc got divorced. Hollywood couples last longer than these guys' marriages.

[Agent Z]

If anything, an argument could be made that superheroes stole from action movies.

[Riv86672]

Inigo Montoya has a very superhero origin.
A guy kills his father and he becomes one of the best fencers in the world, constantly on the lookout for the guy. Though he loses his way (not a lot of money in the Revenge business) when push comes to shove he fights for the good guys, which leads him to his dad’s killer.
He has a sidekick in Fezzik, and at the end of the story it’s implied he takes up a masked persona.

[j9ac9k]

Inigo Montoya has a very superhero origin.
A guy kills his father and he becomes one of the best fencers in the world, constantly on the lookout for the guy. Though he loses his way (not a lot of money in the Revenge business) when push comes to shove he fights for the good guys, which leads him to his dad’s killer.
He has a sidekick in Fezzik, and at the end of the story it’s implied he takes up a masked persona.

His origin may have some of the trapping, but he's no hero. Montoya only cares about his revenge. He throws in with Wesley because he knows it will lead to his revenge. He's not a bad guy or anything, but the classic superhero origin requires the hero think about the betterment of ALL over their own desires. He takes on the mantle bestowed upon him because he has nothing else to do. And the persona he takes on is "dread pirate" not hero.

Many "action heroes" in movies find themselves in a situation where they have to act, motivated by personal motivation. (i.e. Taken. or even Die Hard where he had no choice) Cop movies, etc are different because it's their job. Superheroes may begin from a personal place but ultimately choose to fight for others. It's what heroes do.

[Riv86672]

I’d argue he’s way more heroic than you’re painting him.

[The Cool Thatguy]

I’d argue he’s way more heroic than you’re painting him.

By how much? He's helping start a war, IIRC

[Riv86672]

By how much? He's helping start a war, IIRC

Yeah I touched on him having lost his way.
Wouldn’t be the first hero to become one after a less than stellar start (Spider-man). As for caring only about revenge, if I wanted to be pessimistic I could say that about Batman. He considers his birth persona a disguise, he’s pushed himself past all human limits, he funnels money and tech from his legitimate businesses to fund his vigilante activities, he regularly recruits trains and puts child soldiers into life and death situations...
I’m not that pessimistic though.

[j9ac9k]

This is far from an argument, but as an interesting discussion I still disagree about Inigo being a hero. Again, not that he's a bad guy at all, but he was acting on his own self-interest. And yes, he felt for Wesley and sympathized with True love, etc... but unlike Batman, he never acted even like a vigilante to protect people. He was a hired sword, willing to do some bad things, because his only mission was to avenge his father. I doubt he did anything evil or terrible, but I don't see where he was "heroic." To me, that implies some dedication to a greater goal for the benefit of others. Perhaps he acted heroically to aid Wesley, but I think Fezzik had to convince him...? (I'm not sure) This might be a weird tangent, but it's just interesting to chat about ...

[Riv86672]

Nah, it’s cool. And it’s def. interesting!

[Huntsman Spider]

Yeah, how many married men did NOT get a divorce in superhero stories? Last time I heard, Reed Richards is still married.

Peter Parker, Clint Barton/Hawkeye, Johnny Storm, Bruce Banner, T'Challa, Scott Summers and etc got divorced. Hollywood couples last longer than these guys' marriages.

Peter Parker didn't so much get divorced, as he exchanged his marriage in a literal Faustian bargain to keep his aunt/mother figure alive.

[Riv86672]

Luke Cage and Jessica Jones are still going strong (last I heard).