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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Without a shared universe, literally all you would get is Batman and Superman. Just look at what WB was interested in before the MCU came along. Wonder Woman is only propped up because someone thought there should be a Trinity. Captain Atom couldn't compete when he had a separate universe, and Shazam was defeated in the courts because he was in a separate company's universe. Wildstorm and Milestone also failed to compete, and not even Static would be known if not for the DCAU. Do you think many grandparents know Spawn, Aspen Matthews, and X-O Manowar? Are many buying their grandkids toys of those characters?
    And how popular are they now?

    Shared Universe or not, Wonder Woman is still just considered "distaff Superman" by a lot of people. Captain Atom and Shazam are still seen as lesser Supermen. Being in a Shared Universe is not helping them.

    The other comics could never be marketed towards children based on premise alone so there's that.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    The only characters and teams I can see suffering from not being in a shared sand box would be Flash, Vixen, the Legion and the most of the magic users.
    Why would they suffer? Especially the magic users. In a solo universe, they could actually write out consistent magic systems.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Why would they suffer? Especially the magic users. In a solo universe, they could actually write out consistent magic systems.
    I can't see a universe where it's only Dr. Fate or only Zatanna or only Phantom Stranger or only Etrigan. It might make for a good mini series but part of the draw is seeing these characters interact.

    Same goes for Flash and Vixen. It can work for short term but I think the series would peter out without cross overs with other superheroes.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    I can't see a universe where it's only Dr. Fate or only Zatanna or only Phantom Stranger or only Etrigan. It might make for a good mini series but part of the draw is seeing these characters interact.

    Same goes for Flash and Vixen. It can work for short term but I think the series would peter out without cross overs with other superheroes.
    No faith in DC to actually create supporting casts for them, huh?

  5. #80
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Any DC character can work as part of their own universe. Most of these characters weren't built to be part of a shared universe.

    The only characters and teams I can see suffering from not being in a shared sand box would be Flash, Vixen, the Legion and the most of the magic users.
    Exactly. This goes big for Superman and Batman especially. Their most successful media ever were all in their own universe without crossing over with any other DC properties (Fleischer cartoons, Superman and Batman serials, Donner films, 60s Batman show, Nolan movies, BTAS, etc..)

    Hell, considering how divisive BvS and Justice League were, they have clearly been more successful apart than together. Don't get me wrong, not saying you shouldn't have a shared universe with them but someone earlier said it helps them more which I highly disagree with
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Exactly. This goes big for Superman and Batman especially. Their most successful media ever were all in their own universe without crossing over with any other DC properties (Fleischer cartoons, Superman and Batman serials, Donner films, 60s Batman show, Nolan movies, BTAS, etc..)

    Hell, considering how divisive BvS and Justice League were, they have clearly been more successful apart than together. Don't get me wrong, not saying you shouldn't have a shared universe with them but someone earlier said it helps them more which I highly disagree with
    B:TAS eventually crossed over with S:TAS, and that basically kickstarted the DCAU as an ongoing universe.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    B:TAS eventually crossed over with S:TAS, and that basically kickstarted the DCAU as an ongoing universe.
    I didn't like The Batman but I remembered enjoying the Superman crossover episode.

  8. #83
    Astonishing Member The Kid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    B:TAS eventually crossed over with S:TAS, and that basically kickstarted the DCAU as an ongoing universe.
    Fair but the vast majority of the first run of that show was pretty completely self-contained
    DC, hurry up and make your own version of Marvel Unlimited!

  9. #84
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I didn't like The Batman but I remembered enjoying the Superman crossover episode.
    Oh yeah, the first episode of season 5 .
    Quote Originally Posted by The Kid View Post
    Fair but the vast majority of the first run of that show was pretty completely self-contained
    Granted, that was so early that a Superman and Justice League cartoon probably wasn't any where near on their radar.

  10. #85
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    No faith in DC to actually create supporting casts for them, huh?
    It has to do with each individual character or franchise. GL already comes with a universe sized cast and being limited only by your imaginative. There is enough possibility to tell only GL stories for 10+ without bothering to cross over and if readers gets bored with the main characters or it gets too continuity heavy? Just switch to a new one. Compare that to Dr Fate, and I mean Kent Nelson and Inza from the Pasko/Simonson mini series, you have a very finite amount of stories you could tell with that set up. Even if you bring in the other helm wearers, I don't think Dr Fate works in a universe where he is the only hero. He needs to cross over and meet other heroes, both magical and non magical heroes. He is a hero who needs a shared universe. Compare that to the Spectre. How do you square having that guy exist in the same universe as Joker, Lex Luthor, Darkseid, the Legion of Doom and all the other bad guys? The writers have to either pretend he doesn't exist, he is nerfed during events or he jobs to the next big cosmic threat.

  11. #86
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Without a shared universe, literally all you would get is Batman and Superman. Just look at what WB was interested in before the MCU came along. Wonder Woman is only propped up because someone thought there should be a Trinity. Captain Atom couldn't compete when he had a separate universe, and Shazam was defeated in the courts because he was in a separate company's universe. Wildstorm and Milestone also failed to compete, and not even Static would be known if not for the DCAU. Do you think many grandparents know Spawn, Aspen Matthews, and X-O Manowar? Are many buying their grandkids toys of those characters?
    WB would be doing Superman and Batman movies whether they have a shared universe or not.

    The CW has at least given us some non-Batman dependent DC superhero world but how many people watch that compared to the movies? When push comes to shove, they will always fall back on their Bat-escape hatch. We have gotten more adaptations since the MCU popularized the shared universe concept but is this really the best DC can do?

  12. #87
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Oh yeah, the first episode of season 5 .

    Granted, that was so early that a Superman and Justice League cartoon probably wasn't any where near on their radar.
    It was surprisingly good. I was so happy to discover it later on in life when I needed some new Superman content but was mad at comics.

  13. #88
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    For me it's Batman, he kind of feels out of place next to guys like Aquaman and Superman. He is the most Marvely DC character in that he is just some guy being a crime fighter instead of being a god among men. Not only that but he is more of a classic 30's noir type character. Sticking him in next to Superman just feels cruel.

    Also Watchmen should have nothing to do with the DC universe, maybe I'm biased but it feels tacky to just say 'Hey, Watchmen is canon to DC now'.
    The original story works well as a 12 part story, anything that tries to add to it just takes away from it.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    For me it's Batman, he kind of feels out of place next to guys like Aquaman and Superman. He is the most Marvely DC character in that he is just some guy being a crime fighter instead of being a god among men. Not only that but he is more of a classic 30's noir type character. Sticking him in next to Superman just feels cruel.
    You say that as though he's not still a demigod amongst men.

  15. #90
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    Or that Marvel doesn't have literal gods of their own.

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