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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member superduperman's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that things like the Charlton characters should probably get their own Earths. DC comics can still exist as a company there but they don't exist as real people. Ditto Shazam/Captain Marvel.
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  2. #32
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    Frankly, I think they all work best in their own separate worlds rather than teamed up, unless it was a group of characters that were invented specifically to be a particular team. That said, John Constantine in particular should not be part of the mainstream DCU, because he can be only a pale imitation of his true self there. He's what Black Label was meant to be all about, originally.

  3. #33
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    CYBORG

    The character has so much potential that has been hindered due to a variety of reasons that , IMO, seem to all stem from editorial decisions.

    The character has the potential for huge aesthetic / visual appeal (appealing sci fi power armor designs).
    The character can be written with a focus on earth based tech *or* alien tech with adventures in outer space.
    He happens to check off multiple "diversity" boxes.
    The character is often drawn with a sci fi laser attachments which translate into built in toy and costume sales.

    The only thing holding the character back is wish fulfillment i.e. removal of his " (horrible) legacy" metal face plate and being written as a background character to Batman and Superman.

    Give Cyborg his own universe without having to be forced to take a back seat for the Big 3 to shine and you have a fantastic blank slate to build upon.

    Look at Iron Man, X-O ManoWar, Mega Man (Rockman), and virtually any armored character. They all have differing levels of appeal but they all have APPEAL.

    It's crazy that in this current technological age and coming off of an iconic TV show in Mr. Robot with a focus on tech , hacking , etc, that DC didn't capitalize on Cyborg.

    There are other characters that have a higher profile than Cyborg but IMO he has the most potential of any character on the DC roster.

    Cyborg needs his own universe with a complete removal of the company imposed limitations they've saddled the character with.
    Don't complain. Create.

  4. #34
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Do they, though?
    Kinda. Superman is meant to be the strongest, but Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are hyped to be on par with him which Superman fans don't like. Wonder Woman fans don't like her ceiling being defined by Superman, and similarly the temptation to avoid pairing them up together would be easier to avoid if they weren't in a shared universe. There is also the hijacking of all the dumb crossovers

    I think the positives outweigh the negatives, but lack of a shared universe would be a relief to some.

  5. #35
    Mighty Member John Venus's Avatar
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    I haven't enjoyed narratives where Superman, Batman, et al are in the only heroes in their world. I think some degree of isolation or being in their own continuity bubble helps them but I don't want to close the door completely on a Superman/Batman team up. Batman himself works for me when he is a street level vigilante but still has to deal with threats like Clayface, Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy whereas characters like Dick Grayson and Tim Drake are better served when they get to interact with the larger universe.

    Considering the fact that most DC heroes weren't meant to go together, pretty much any of them could exist in their own solo verse. The question is how long would that last? The standalone B:TAS eventually paved the way for the DCAU, a stand alone GA show served as a stepping stone to a live action Crisis on Infinite Earths cross over, even over at Marvel the 90's IM couldn't help but eventually add Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch to it's roster and of course the IM movie ended up paving the way for a multi franchise cross over worth a billion dollars. For the sake of longevity, any series is going to have to branch out.

    That said I think the Fawcett characters and Milestone characters (with the exception of Static) work best when they are the primary heroes of their world and not in an overcrowded shared universe. Constantine as well, works best when he is in his own universe and not being DC's answer to Dr. Strange.

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Customizer View Post
    CYBORG

    The character has so much potential that has been hindered due to a variety of reasons that , IMO, seem to all stem from editorial decisions.

    The character has the potential for huge aesthetic / visual appeal (appealing sci fi power armor designs).
    The character can be written with a focus on earth based tech *or* alien tech with adventures in outer space.
    He happens to check off multiple "diversity" boxes.
    The character is often drawn with a sci fi laser attachments which translate into built in toy and costume sales.

    The only thing holding the character back is wish fulfillment i.e. removal of his " (horrible) legacy" metal face plate and being written as a background character to Batman and Superman.

    Give Cyborg his own universe without having to be forced to take a back seat for the Big 3 to shine and you have a fantastic blank slate to build upon.

    Look at Iron Man, X-O ManoWar, Mega Man (Rockman), and virtually any armored character. They all have differing levels of appeal but they all have APPEAL.

    It's crazy that in this current technological age and coming off of an iconic TV show in Mr. Robot with a focus on tech , hacking , etc, that DC didn't capitalize on Cyborg.

    There are other characters that have a higher profile than Cyborg but IMO he has the most potential of any character on the DC roster.

    Cyborg needs his own universe with a complete removal of the company imposed limitations they've saddled the character with.
    This seems to be two very different arguments entirely. None of what you are asking of Cyborg requires him being in his own universe. Two of the characters you listed are in shared universes.

  7. #37
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    Kinda. Superman is meant to be the strongest, but Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel are hyped to be on par with him which Superman fans don't like. Wonder Woman fans don't like her ceiling being defined by Superman, and similarly the temptation to avoid pairing them up together would be easier to avoid if they weren't in a shared universe. There is also the hijacking of all the dumb crossovers

    I think the positives outweigh the negatives, but lack of a shared universe would be a relief to some.
    I don't think it really matters so much as they're the strongest within their own stories and have fun team-ups, but that's just my take on it.

    I think the character back-and-forth and dynamics are more worthwhile than a character one-up manship.

  8. #38

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    Superman, Captain Marvel, and Wonder Woman.

    Basically any character defined by being the "best, most powerful" because they wind up stepping over each other. They shouldn't have to, but DC is pretty terrible at balancing them.
    That's why Superman has this whiplash portrayal where he jobs eleven months out of the year, then he loses his temper and demolishes everyone single-handed in the span of a page. Or why Wonder Woman gets touted as the "greatest warrior" but almost never lives up to that title (usually the first to drop during one of Supes' aforementioned mood swings). And why Cap has been rolling disinterestedly on the kitchen floor with no place or direction.

    They don't complement one another and would be better off in their own worlds.
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    This seems to be two very different arguments entirely. None of what you are asking of Cyborg requires him being in his own universe. Two of the characters you listed are in shared universes.
    I agree to an extent. No fictional character needs to be placed in their own universe in order to be written well and to have their best characteristics highlighted consistently. However it seems that many characters do require their own universe because decisions made by writers , corporations or editorial staff hinders the full development of said characters.


    In order for some characters to really develop they need new surroundings and independent agency.

    This is starting to read like what is said about borderline star athletes being traded to a new team in order to flourish in professional sports heh. Or individual members of a band striking out on their own.
    Don't complain. Create.

  10. #40
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    Maybe Cassandra Cain.

  11. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    Maybe Cassandra Cain.
    Just put her with Richard Dragon.

  12. #42
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    None of them. It’s very difficult for superheroes to get over with the fans without prior exposure nowadays. In fact a lot a lot of characters aren’t really built to be solo acts. Most characters don’t really have their own rogue’s gallery, and much of supporting cast. Even really popular characters like Superman benefit more from the shared universe then they loose.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    None of them. It’s very difficult for superheroes to get over with the fans without prior exposure nowadays. In fact a lot a lot of characters aren’t really built to be solo acts. Most characters don’t really have their own rogue’s gallery, and much of supporting cast. Even really popular characters like Superman benefit more from the shared universe then they loose.
    I think the opposite.

    The main benefit of a solo universe is that you can build on each hero's mythology without having to worry about whether it fits into someone else's. They're essentially able to be more consistent.

  14. #44
    Fantastic Member prepmaster's Avatar
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    No Justice League, no Legion of Doom, no Suicide Squad, no Teen Titans, no Injustice stories? Aren't Superman's villains used as high level threat to other heroes?
    Last edited by prepmaster; 01-23-2021 at 04:38 AM.

  15. #45
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flash Gordon View Post
    Shazam deserves his own world with its own rules and mythology.
    If we had to segregate one character/IP, this is the one.

    Obligatory "Watchmen shouldn't have been messed with."

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