Marauders #16 review *spoilers*

[Devaishwarya]

Yeah...I'm still...
Dance Charleston.jpg
and
Dance Can-Can.jpg

[Celestialbodies]

Can I ask a question?



It seems the ongoing school of thought is Shaw had given up by the end of the issue, or at least was under Emma/Kate thumb. But nothing about his obvious devious smirk and outright statement hinting at revenge makes it seem like that, instead it felt like he's definitely going to be plotting against Emma/Kate or did I miss a page or something?

[baxer]

Can I ask a question?



It seems the ongoing school of thought is Shaw had given up by the end of the issue, or at least was under Emma/Kate thumb. But nothing about his obvious devious smirk and outright statement hinting at revenge makes it seem like that, instead it felt like he's definitely going to be plotting against Emma/Kate or did I miss a page or something?

For me he still will try to counter attack, Shaw is resistant to TP. There is no reason to show him with the evil smirk and plans to vengeance, if he was under Emma control we wouuld see her and not him doing that

[Devaishwarya]

Can I ask a question?



It seems the ongoing school of thought is Shaw had given up by the end of the issue, or at least was under Emma/Kate thumb. But nothing about his obvious devious smirk and outright statement hinting at revenge makes it seem like that, instead it felt like he's definitely going to be plotting against Emma/Kate or did I miss a page or something?

My understanding...He was beaten, not defeated, and not humbled. His words to the Council were empty. And he's most certainly plotting his revenge.
For story purposes...I expect him to so Let him try. It will give Emma the reason to end him once and for all.

[Celestialbodies]

For me he still will try to counter attack, Shaw is resistant to TP. There is no reason to show him with the evil smirk and plans to vengeance, if he was under Emma control we wouuld see her and not him doing that

My understanding...He was beaten, not defeated, and not humbled. His words to the Council were empty. And he's most certainly plotting his revenge.
For story purposes...I expect him to so Let him try. It will give Emma the reason to end him once and for all.

Yeah these are more the impression I got from the issue, however reading this thread that does not seem to be the consensus. Heck before I read the actual issue, the comments mentioned in this thread made the Council scene seem much different than it was. From what I read he seemed beaten, yet nothing about that read as he was defeated or that Emma had any form of sway over him. Especially, given his statements at the end.

[Alphaxman]

For some reason I can't explain, I didn't care for this issue. Even though he deserved what came to him, I didn't like seeing Shaw being so incompetent and be out-maneuvered (again) by Emma. And when Kitty... I mean Kate :eyeroll: phased her hands in to show him KILL SHAW on her fingers was sooooo corny. I know there is only so many characters one can juggle but I find it so hard too believe that someone like Shaw wouldn't use any of the dozens of ex-villains as bodyguards, hanger-on(s) or servents that would answer his door for him, if just to keep him company. Like, he's a member of the Quiet Council. Why haven't his wife been brought back, or Harry Leland and Friedrich Von Roehm? Those big guys may not be his "friends" but at least Shaw could sort of trust them to add with is machinations.
I guess I'm just saying I hate to see such a formable villain reduced down to a joke to elevate Emma and Kate. Storm was a non-issue here and so was Bishop. Lockheed did more.
And the ending was so confusing. Are we to assume Shaw is playing along with the ladies plans or was he being manipulated by Emma? Wouldn't Xavier know Shaw lost access to his powers since he wears Cerebro 24/7 and could sense it? Wouldn't it be in Shaw's right as a Councilmember to have Healer or Elixir or Triage heal him regardless of what Emma, Kate or Ororo wants?

Also, I'm all for the ladies getting their shine, but I don't like it at the expense of the male characters. Bishop, Bobby and Pyro are useless. They're simply tools for the ladies (mostly Emma and Kate) instead of having purpose or motivations of their own.

2 out of 5 stars for me.

[Kingdom X]

Emma is te female version.

that was a cheap retcon that Shaw became the a really bd guy, instead of just a regular bad guy to make emma inoccent

We’re defending Shaw now? He mercilessly murdered Kate like 5 issues ago. Also you can be a questionable person and still be the victim of horrible acts. You can still hate Emma and acknowledge that Shaw’s done horrible things.

[baxer]

We’re defending Shaw now? He mercilessly murdered Kate like 5 issues ago. Also you can be a questionable person and still be the victim of horrible acts. You can still hate Emma and acknowledge that Shaw’s done horrible things.

It's not defending, there is no doubt that he is a bad guy. But retcons to make Emma innoccent are ridiculous, even if they kick a dead horse like Shaw it still is bad

[Fokken]

Even EMMA knows she's not "innocent", regardless of what she went through during her time as The White Queen.

[cranger]

Emma was treated as a villain in IvX through to Rosenberg's run. Shaw got to be a 'hero' in Generation Hope and was more or less accepted until someone (Bunn) decided to make him a villain again. It is going to keep happening with all of these characters and so all that can cared for these days is if the story itself is consistent, because decades of the cycle and too many writers giving their take is never going to mesh well.

[Rev9]

So basically this book comes down to "girl power/women rule and all men are toxic and awful". Seems about right.

I think most of the books in Hickman's run so far have poorly written male characters, villain or not doesn't matter Xavier almost has no agency, he is beholden to Moira's experience, Apoc is down with being belittled by his queen, Wolverine tells Brian that he should have put Opal to the 'sword' in the sheets to save Krakoa. It's vogue to write men this way I guess . The only men written decently are Exodus and White Sword.I think though if they are to become focal points of any saga they will more likely than not be screwed over in characterisation as well.

[Havok83]

I think most of the books in Hickman's run so far have poorly written male characters, villain or not doesn't matter Xavier almost has no agency, he is beholden to Moira's experience, Apoc is down with being belittled by his queen, Wolverine tells Brian that he should have put Opal to the 'sword' in the sheets to save Krakoa. It's vogue to write men this way I guess . The only men written decently are Exodus and White Sword.I think though if they are to become focal points of any saga they will more likely than not be screwed over in characterisation as well.

IDA. Early on, Xavier has been doing his own thing was shown to be keeping secrets from Moira. He definitely has agency

This is the best writing Apocalypse has had since Simonson. He is layered in a way he hasnt been shown to be in decades. Sunspot was awesome in NM. Zeb is doing wonders with Greycrow in Hellions. Magneto hs been a gem wherever he's appeared.

[Rev9]

IDA. Early on, Xavier has been doing his own thing was shown to be keeping secrets from Moira. He definitely has agency

This is the best writing Apocalypse has had since Simonson. He is layered in a way he hasnt been shown to be in decades. Sunspot was awesome in NM. Zeb is doing wonders with Greycrow in Hellions. Magneto hs been a gem wherever he's appeared.

Apocalypse was developed more as a character, but I think they dropped the ball in some critical areas, in the beginning we are to infer he was not the strongest among them to take on Amenth, but when he is by beating Amenth in a battle of wills he chooses to stay in Amenth as a sacrifice so ultimately what is his desire? Is he after Krakoa being strengthened through trial (his legacy characterisation) or is it joining his family and saving Krakoa by forsaking his freedom in a trade?He didn't seem to achieve both he gave up Krakoa to be with his family a family that betrayed him in Genesis, and Genesis was ready to destroy Krakoa for the fun of it. When you get to the nuts and bolts of his characterisation, on the surface it redeemed him, but in actuality it mangled the character.

Greycrow is a side character, the main character is Havok(though that is if we take Psyloche who is the real main character out) and he is written as a weak and disillusioned character at least in Hellions.The other option is to take Sinister as the main xter, but he is just plain nuts, there is nothing but duplicity there so I don't see him as really characterised(not that there is really need to, Sinister has always been one dimensional)

[Havok83]

Apocalypse was developed more as a character, but I think they dropped the ball in some critical areas, in the beginning we are to infer he was not the strongest among them to take on Amenth, but when he is by beating Amenth in a battle of wills he chooses to stay in Amenth as a sacrifice so ultimately what is his desire? Is he after Krakoa being strengthened through trial (his legacy characterisation) or is it joining his family and saving Krakoa by forsaking his freedom in a trade?He didn't seem to achieve both he gave up Krakoa to be with his family a family that betrayed him in Genesis, and Genesis was ready to destroy Krakoa for the fun of it. When you get to the nuts and bolts of his characterisation, on the surface it redeemed him, but in actuality it mangled the character.

Greycrow is a side character, the main character is Havok(though that is if we take Psyloche who is the real main character out) and he is written as a weak and disillusioned character at least in Hellions.The other option is to take Sinister as the main xter, but he is just plain nuts, there is nothing but duplicity there so I don't see him as really characterised(not that there is really need to, Sinister has always been one dimensional)

Greycrow isnt a side character in the book but even if he was, that doesnt negate that he is being written well. I feel like he, Alex, Kwannon and Sinister have all been the leads since it started The rest have not have had much to do

[Rev9]

Greycrow isnt a side character in the book but even if he was, that doesnt negate that he isnt being written well. I feel like he, Alex, Kwannon and Sinister have all been the leads since it started The rest have not have had much to do

I'll grant that I am intrigued by Greycrow ,maybe because he's been brought out from the cold after a while.I hadn't read issues of him before Hellions.Though that is in large part at least for me because Hickman is giving lesser known/fringe characters the spotlight. However if this is the greatest characterisation they are getting should not be mistaken that it's the best characterisation.Though I agree Greycrow is interesting, but for me the classic characters have been below par ,but we still have a long way to go.