The Decline of superhero cartoons and animation

[Mistah K88]

I think the issue is that animation isn't taken as seriously in the USA. It also doesn't help that every cartoon nowadays has to be a goofy comedy, so action cartoons are dying. I don't HATE Teen Titans go, but I have to admit that I am a little salty that the other shows of the DC Nation cartoon block had to die. I would have loved to see where Green Lantern the Animated Series and Beware the Batman (despite Batman fatigue) would have ended up. When it comes to the DC animated properties in recent years, the pendulum swings heavily in both directions...we have either gore fests or booty songs. I like the Harley Quinn cartoon...but that falls into comedy. I still like Young Justice, even if the last season was going out of its way to remind us it's not on Cartoon Network haha.

Marvel animation has to be "for kids" in a way that they actively went to kill the "all ages" cartoon that they had (Avengers EMH) and replaced it to ape the movies more (which I guess EMH was meant to do originally...but it kind of steered off into it's own thing).

Animation and live action have different strengths and weaknesses...I love the gaudy comic book costumes of most characters, but in live action they'd look silly...thus why X-Men don't have their more outlandish outfits. You could suspend your disbelief more in animation...though I won't say that live action hasn't tried...

[Amadeus Arkham]

I really like that in Japan you can have an animated murder-mystery and it’s basically a kids show like Detective Conan, lol. I like that and really wish the West had that type of acceptance of the medium here. I also wish “kids” cartoons weren’t bound by the lame standards and practices of Western children shows. As much as I like JLA and Earth’s Mightiest Heroes I do wish they were more violent and showed blood. I kind of like that Japan isn’t squeamish about violence in their animated entertainment as much as the West are. I actually think children in America can actually handle bloody violence as long as it’s not too excessive.

[GindyPosts]

I really like that in Japan you can have an animated murder-mystery and it’s basically a kids show like Detective Conan, lol. I like that and really wish the West had that type of acceptance of the medium here. I also wish “kids” cartoons weren’t bound by the lame standards and practices of Western children shows. As much as I like JLA and Earth’s Mightiest Heroes I do wish they were more violent and showed blood. I kind of like that Japan isn’t squeamish about violence in their animated entertainment as much as the West are. I actually think children in America can actually handle bloody violence as long as it’s not too excessive.

The thing is, what's culturally "okay" in Japan for the younger audiences is probably "not okay" for younger audiences in other countries. We have to understand that, for many years, what was marketed as children's animation in both sides of the Pacific often required varying degrees of censorship (sometimes too much) in order to make it palatable.

I don't think the solution is "let's add in a little bit of blood", but instead let's start addressing how we can be more "open minded" about when we can address more serious things in these programs here in America. When you have a show with stakes, and then walk back on those stakes in which everyone and their pets get to escape unharmed and the danger is how much in property damage will occur, it sort of creates an unrealistic presentation of the world to impressionable eyes. In a superhero show, if you want to address consequences of failure, show what happens if failure does happen, such as public perception, the psychological turmoil, grief, and overcoming loss (which are all ways to present them as fallible, but also relatable). Not saying shows already don't do these, but I do find it silly when you see the Justice League freak out over the destruction of a city after they got everyone out.

[Amadeus Arkham]

The thing is, what's culturally "okay" in Japan for the younger audiences is probably "not okay" for younger audiences in other countries. We have to understand that, for many years, what was marketed as children's animation in both sides of the Pacific often required varying degrees of censorship (sometimes too much) in order to make it palatable.

I don't think the solution is "let's add in a little bit of blood", but instead let's start addressing how we can be more "open minded" about when we can address more serious things in these programs here in America. When you have a show with stakes, and then walk back on those stakes in which everyone and their pets get to escape unharmed and the danger is how much in property damage will occur, it sort of creates an unrealistic presentation of the world to impressionable eyes. In a superhero show, if you want to address consequences of failure, show what happens if failure does happen, such as public perception, the psychological turmoil, grief, and overcoming loss (which are all ways to present them as fallible, but also relatable). Not saying shows already don't do these, but I do find it silly when you see the Justice League freak out over the destruction of a city after they got everyone out.

I get what your saying but I do think American children are a lot less sensitive to violence as one would one think, imo. I certainly do wish western children cartoons were more willing to show some more realistic injury and violence of some kind. I think western children shouldn’t be sheltered from that kind of content too much but I do agree with the rest of what you’re saying. Adding violence won’t fix the core issue since the issue is really the maturity of the storytelling but I think censors in the country are too needlessly strict with their restrictions when it comes to kids cartoons.

[Mistah K88]

I really like that in Japan you can have an animated murder-mystery and it’s basically a kids show like Detective Conan, lol. I like that and really wish the West had that type of acceptance of the medium here. I also wish “kids” cartoons weren’t bound by the lame standards and practices of Western children shows. As much as I like JLA and Earth’s Mightiest Heroes I do wish they were more violent and showed blood. I kind of like that Japan isn’t squeamish about violence in their animated entertainment as much as the West are. I actually think children in America can actually handle bloody violence as long as it’s not too excessive.

Well American S&P can be odd. Avengers EMH had to choose between real life historical Nazis with fictional laser guns or a more fictional organization with Hydra with actual guns when it came to the Captain America short... They chose the latter.

Some cartoons like BTAS would take full advantage when they could get away with something...(they always made sure to show the Scarface puppet being destroyed in the most gruesome ways possible. Spectacular Spider-Man had some of the guns have ammo that...while silly...is actually kind of worse than the bullet (the little spiked mace pellets).

When it comes to collateral damage, I think after the terrorist attacks in 2001 they made a point to make sure to state that buildings are empty when they are destroyed. (there's this one cartoon where the villains yell out "we're okay" when a building collapses on them, or fly off in the distance or whatever, it's so obvious that they are making fun of this trope that it's kind of funny)

[The no face guy]

I think the issue is that animation isn't taken as seriously in the USA. It also doesn't help that every cartoon nowadays has to be a goofy comedy, so action cartoons are dying. I don't HATE Teen Titans go, but I have to admit that I am a little salty that the other shows of the DC Nation cartoon block had to die. I would have loved to see where Green Lantern the Animated Series and Beware the Batman (despite Batman fatigue) would have ended up. When it comes to the DC animated properties in recent years, the pendulum swings heavily in both directions...we have either gore fests or booty songs. I like the Harley Quinn cartoon...but that falls into comedy. I still like Young Justice, even if the last season was going out of its way to remind us it's not on Cartoon Network haha.

Marvel animation has to be "for kids" in a way that they actively went to kill the "all ages" cartoon that they had (Avengers EMH) and replaced it to ape the movies more (which I guess EMH was meant to do originally...but it kind of steered off into it's own thing).

Animation and live action have different strengths and weaknesses...I love the gaudy comic book costumes of most characters, but in live action they'd look silly...thus why X-Men don't have their more outlandish outfits. You could suspend your disbelief more in animation...though I won't say that live action hasn't tried...

I have to agree with you, about animation not being taken seriously in North America. We were having a previous discussion on how we looked at Japanese Anime in envy, and wish we could have the same culture here that featured superheroes.

I have always felt that the best kids shows and cartoons are the ones that are written for them, but can be watched by adults. This is why Harry Potter and Scooby Doo were so popular, there was a sense of realism and danger to them.

The same goes with superhero cartoons. As a child the more real it was the better, I was turned off by kiddie super hero cartoons, even at a very young age.

[PCN24454]

I have to agree with you, about animation not being taken seriously in North America. We were having a previous discussion on how we looked at Japanese Anime in envy, and wish we could have the same culture here that featured superheroes.

I have always felt that the best kids shows and cartoons are the ones that are written for them, but can be watched by adults. This is why Harry Potter and Scooby Doo were so popular, there was a sense of realism and danger to them.

The same goes with superhero cartoons. As a child the more real it was the better, I was turned off by kiddie super hero cartoons, even at a very young age.

While I agree that cartoons aren't taken seriously, Scooby Doo had a sense of realism and danger?

While Japanese programs tend to have more lax censors, they also have more wackier elements that turn of Western viewers. One Piece is notably loved in the West in spite of its cartoonish art style. While Super Sentai shows tend to have more violent plots than Power Rangers does, they also tend to have more idealistic characters.

They aren't the type of "adult material" that people talk about them as.

[Amadeus Arkham]

Young Justice is a good show but I wish the animation looked better.

[Frontier]

Young Justice is a good show but I wish the animation looked better.

You could definitely tell there were budget cuts this season. Especially with all the still shots.

[Amadeus Arkham]

While I agree that cartoons aren't taken seriously, Scooby Doo had a sense of realism and danger?

While Japanese programs tend to have more lax censors, they also have more wackier elements that turn of Western viewers. One Piece is notably loved in the West in spite of its cartoonish art style. While Super Sentai shows tend to have more violent plots than Power Rangers does, they also tend to have more idealistic characters.

They aren't the type of "adult material" that people talk about them as.

I actually think nowadays American/Western media seems less censored than Japanese media. Though I gather you’re speaking strictly in the sense of children’s show entertainment.

[Amadeus Arkham]

You could definitely tell there were budget cuts this season. Especially with all the still shots.

Yeah, it was unfortunate. I almost felt like I was watching something animated by adobe flash player at points. Hoping the move to HBO Max will help raise the budget a bit and give the series better production values. I kind of wish they would team up with the prestige Japanese animation studios like Madhouse and have the next season.

[PCN24454]

I actually think nowadays American/Western media seems less censored than Japanese media. Though I gather you’re speaking strictly in the sense of children’s show entertainment.

What makes you say that?

[Amadeus Arkham]

What makes you say that?

Just an observation based on what I’ve seen with modern anime which seems more censored than what it used to be. Shows like Dragon Ball Super and Toriko isn’t allowed to have blood due to Japanese censorship standards being higher for example, not to mention the Japanese censors on American games like Last Of Us where the Japanese version has toned down the violence and sexual content compared to the American version - leading to complaints from many Japanese fans about the censorship. In the One Piece anime adaptions they’ve censored things like characters flipping the bird while in say the PG-13 family friendly Guardians and Spider-Man films you see character’s flipping the bird in full view. Not to mention, I’d argue a lot of live-action DC and Marvel shows are super lax when it comes to violence. Gotham alone, tends to be way more violent than a lot of mainstream anime. Heck shows like Game Of Thrones and Walking Dead are far more insanely gory than what I see of most anime nowadays.

Though, it’s a different story when you speak solely about the animated kid friendly shows of course.

[Frontier]

Yeah, it was unfortunate. I almost felt like I was watching something animated by adobe flash player at points. Hoping the move to HBO Max will help raise the budget a bit and give the series better production values. I kind of wish they would team up with the prestige Japanese animation studios like Madhouse and have the next season.

That would be a sharp change of pace .

[Rogue22]

Just an observation based on what I’ve seen with modern anime which seems more censored than what it used to be. Shows like Dragon Ball Super and Toriko isn’t allowed to have blood due to Japanese censorship standards being higher for example, not to mention the Japanese censors on American games like Last Of Us where the Japanese version has toned down the violence and sexual content compared to the American version - leading to complaints from many Japanese fans about the censorship. In the One Piece anime adaptions they’ve censored things like characters flipping the bird while in say the PG-13 family friendly Guardians and Spider-Man films you see character’s flipping the bird in full view. Not to mention, I’d argue a lot of live-action DC and Marvel shows are super lax when it comes to violence. Gotham alone, tends to be way more violent than a lot of mainstream anime. Heck shows like Game Of Thrones and Walking Dead are far more insanely gory than what I see of most anime nowadays.

Though, it’s a different story when you speak solely about the animated kid friendly shows of course.

Yep, most anime that airs on tv nowadays is pretty censored unless it's a movie or the show airs late at night.