The Decline of superhero cartoons and animation

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I do think the "decline" of serious superhero cartoons (not just adult ones) is due to a combination of three factors:

1. Networks preferring comedies over action cartoons. We already know how Cartoon Network treated many DC cartoons in the early 2010s. Even something more comedic and toyetic like Justice League Action was treated badly. Big Hero 6: The Series had potential, but Disney bafflingly forced more humor and light-heartedness to the point where it's now just another 11-min. episode comedy. Even DC is producing more comedies like TTGo, DC Superhero Girls, and Harley Quinn, than shows playing it straight. I think Young Justice is their only action animated series.

2. Connection to toys/merchandise. This is not as much of an issue, but it still plagues action cartoons in general. Young Justice, Green Lantern, and Beware the Batman were all killed off directly because of toys. Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters had a toyline, but it didn't really sell because of the baffling decision to keep it exclusive to Walmart, and that might've influenced Netflix and Hasbro not to order more. The third season of Marvel's Spider-Man was blatantly made to sell the Maximum Venom toyline. Not really a superhero series, but Spirit: Riding Free is one of Dreamworks/Netflix's most successful shows despite barely anyone talking about it because little girls LOVE the toys and merch.

3. Already mentioned here, but the popularity of superhero live action films and shows has made cartoons into a lesser priority. Notice how Marvel only has MODOK, Hit-Monkey (?), Moon Girl, Spidey, and What If? in production, and only What If? was highlighted at this year's conference show likely because of its strong connection to the MCU. Also, it's the only guaranteed action cartoon they're making.

Hoping the move to HBO Max will help raise the budget a bit and give the series better production values.

That season was greenlit and mostly produced when the show was still on DC Universe, so I doubt the move will influence it much. If they greenlight a season 5, then maybe.

[Frontier]

3. Already mentioned here, but the popularity of superhero live action films and shows has made cartoons into a lesser priority. Notice how Marvel only has MODOK, Hit-Monkey (?), Moon Girl, Spidey, and What If? in production, and only What If? was highlighted at this year's conference show likely because of its strong connection to the MCU. Also, it's the only guaranteed action cartoon they're making.

Yeah, I've been thinking to myself that Disney probably doesn't see animation as a priority for Marvel now because they have the movies and Disney+ shows and those already have mass audience appeal. There isn't much purpose for cartoons with that in mind other than to use characters or status quos you can't really do with the movies anymore.

Just like how Star Wars is leaning so much into live-action on Disney+, especially with the new Ahsoka show. Although we've still got Bad Batch, the anime anthology, and a Droids animated series coming out.

[skyvolt2000]

The thing is, what's culturally "okay" in Japan for the younger audiences is probably "not okay" for younger audiences in other countries. We have to understand that, for many years, what was marketed as children's animation in both sides of the Pacific often required varying degrees of censorship (sometimes too much) in order to make it palatable.

This 90s Sailor Moon says HI.

They cut out nude lines, Rey's grandpa was a DIRTY old man, Neptune and Uranus's relationship, LGBTQ villains and nudity.

Same with Battle of the Planets/G-Force and parts of Starblazers.

Even Robotech got edited. While Yellow Dancer (a man dressed as a woman) was fine, they edited out the relationship of Bowie and Emerson-who were father and son in Southern Cross. Along with hiding the fact it took place on another planet.

What makes you say that?

Take Static Shock-Gears was gay. It was never confirmed on the show but McDuffie confirmed it.
That was 16 years ago.

Netflix She-ra and Steven Universe and PBS's Arthur had LGBTQA characters. I think Arthur did a year after Static Shock left the air.

Clarence on Cartoon Network had Clarence's UNWED mother sleeping with a man. A man who was living in the house and not working.
Regular Show-nobody asked questions of how a human and bird had a kid?
Amazing World of Gumball-his parents ran away from home, had him out of wedlock and Dad don't work.


A lot of that stuff could not be allowed in the past on certain shows and networks.

Tv networks refused to show an episode of Robotech that showed how Roy and Claudia got together (interracial couple)
The entire final season of As Told by Ginger has NOT aired in the United States. The season that saw Ginger (white) and Darren (black) date. Even the final episode that did air here would not confirm they were married DESPITE the baby looking like Ginger and Darren had a wedding ring.
Total Drama Island Revenge of the Island-the black nerd won in every country except ONE-The USA.
WB wanted Static to be WHITE. Then wanted his father DEAD.

So yes a lot of things have changed in the past 15 years. Along with most of your writers NOT writing for kids. They are just writing. McDuffie said don't dumb down your material. THat is not respecting the audience.

[The no face guy]

I do think the "decline" of serious superhero cartoons (not just adult ones) is due to a combination of three factors:

1. Networks preferring comedies over action cartoons. We already know how Cartoon Network treated many DC cartoons in the early 2010s. Even something more comedic and toyetic like Justice League Action was treated badly. Big Hero 6: The Series had potential, but Disney bafflingly forced more humor and light-heartedness to the point where it's now just another 11-min. episode comedy. Even DC is producing more comedies like TTGo, DC Superhero Girls, and Harley Quinn, than shows playing it straight. I think Young Justice is their only action animated series.

2. Connection to toys/merchandise. This is not as much of an issue, but it still plagues action cartoons in general. Young Justice, Green Lantern, and Beware the Batman were all killed off directly because of toys. Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters had a toyline, but it didn't really sell because of the baffling decision to keep it exclusive to Walmart, and that might've influenced Netflix and Hasbro not to order more. The third season of Marvel's Spider-Man was blatantly made to sell the Maximum Venom toyline. Not really a superhero series, but Spirit: Riding Free is one of Dreamworks/Netflix's most successful shows despite barely anyone talking about it because little girls LOVE the toys and merch.

3. Already mentioned here, but the popularity of superhero live action films and shows has made cartoons into a lesser priority. Notice how Marvel only has MODOK, Hit-Monkey (?), Moon Girl, Spidey, and What If? in production, and only What If? was highlighted at this year's conference show likely because of its strong connection to the MCU. Also, it's the only guaranteed action cartoon they're making.

That season was greenlit and mostly produced when the show was still on DC Universe, so I doubt the move will influence it much. If they greenlight a season 5, then maybe.

I think your spot on about the toys, and the networks.

After all, toys were the main factor driving the production of superhero cartoons from the 70's to mid 2000's, and we lucked out with DC animation becoming more mature with Bruce Tim and Paul Dini. I really think of them as the pioneers of modern day DC animation.

When the networks pulled the plugs on Saturday morning and afternoon cartoons the decline began. No kid runs home after to school today because they are afraid of missing their favorite episode, it's all on Netflix now...what little and minute amount there is.

[PCN24454]

Yep, most anime that airs on tv nowadays is pretty censored unless it's a movie or the show airs late at night.

Which is funny because most anime is censored from the manga anyways.

[Amadeus Arkham]

The West is strange. We have many serious live action shows comics, video games and movies but the medium of animation is still largely comedies whether that’s an adult one or a kids one. I wish we had more diversity in that medium like the Japanese have. They could do animated horror series or a animated murder mystery series without a problem while over here we’re still having a hissy fit whenever an Incredibles character says a mild swear word.

[Slowpokeking]

This 90s Sailor Moon says HI.

They cut out nude lines, Rey's grandpa was a DIRTY old man, Neptune and Uranus's relationship, LGBTQ villains and nudity.

Same with Battle of the Planets/G-Force and parts of Starblazers.

Even Robotech got edited. While Yellow Dancer (a man dressed as a woman) was fine, they edited out the relationship of Bowie and Emerson-who were father and son in Southern Cross. Along with hiding the fact it took place on another planet.



Take Static Shock-Gears was gay. It was never confirmed on the show but McDuffie confirmed it.
That was 16 years ago.

Netflix She-ra and Steven Universe and PBS's Arthur had LGBTQA characters. I think Arthur did a year after Static Shock left the air.

Clarence on Cartoon Network had Clarence's UNWED mother sleeping with a man. A man who was living in the house and not working.
Regular Show-nobody asked questions of how a human and bird had a kid?
Amazing World of Gumball-his parents ran away from home, had him out of wedlock and Dad don't work.


A lot of that stuff could not be allowed in the past on certain shows and networks.

Tv networks refused to show an episode of Robotech that showed how Roy and Claudia got together (interracial couple)
The entire final season of As Told by Ginger has NOT aired in the United States. The season that saw Ginger (white) and Darren (black) date. Even the final episode that did air here would not confirm they were married DESPITE the baby looking like Ginger and Darren had a wedding ring.
Total Drama Island Revenge of the Island-the black nerd won in every country except ONE-The USA.
WB wanted Static to be WHITE. Then wanted his father DEAD.

So yes a lot of things have changed in the past 15 years. Along with most of your writers NOT writing for kids. They are just writing. McDuffie said don't dumb down your material. THat is not respecting the audience.

They even cut of a lot of touching scenes.

[Slowpokeking]

I do think the "decline" of serious superhero cartoons (not just adult ones) is due to a combination of three factors:

1. Networks preferring comedies over action cartoons. We already know how Cartoon Network treated many DC cartoons in the early 2010s. Even something more comedic and toyetic like Justice League Action was treated badly. Big Hero 6: The Series had potential, but Disney bafflingly forced more humor and light-heartedness to the point where it's now just another 11-min. episode comedy. Even DC is producing more comedies like TTGo, DC Superhero Girls, and Harley Quinn, than shows playing it straight. I think Young Justice is their only action animated series.

2. Connection to toys/merchandise. This is not as much of an issue, but it still plagues action cartoons in general. Young Justice, Green Lantern, and Beware the Batman were all killed off directly because of toys. Stretch Armstrong and the Flex Fighters had a toyline, but it didn't really sell because of the baffling decision to keep it exclusive to Walmart, and that might've influenced Netflix and Hasbro not to order more. The third season of Marvel's Spider-Man was blatantly made to sell the Maximum Venom toyline. Not really a superhero series, but Spirit: Riding Free is one of Dreamworks/Netflix's most successful shows despite barely anyone talking about it because little girls LOVE the toys and merch.

3. Already mentioned here, but the popularity of superhero live action films and shows has made cartoons into a lesser priority. Notice how Marvel only has MODOK, Hit-Monkey (?), Moon Girl, Spidey, and What If? in production, and only What If? was highlighted at this year's conference show likely because of its strong connection to the MCU. Also, it's the only guaranteed action cartoon they're making.



That season was greenlit and mostly produced when the show was still on DC Universe, so I doubt the move will influence it much. If they greenlight a season 5, then maybe.

I don't think it's about the Networks, but mostly parents and audience choice. Also we already got serious shows through the 90s and 00s, Superheroes are always about those same characters so ppl would feel bored.

[Vic Vega]

I think your spot on about the toys, and the networks.

After all, toys were the main factor driving the production of superhero cartoons from the 70's to mid 2000's, and we lucked out with DC animation becoming more mature with Bruce Tim and Paul Dini. I really think of them as the pioneers of modern day DC animation.

When the networks pulled the plugs on Saturday morning and afternoon cartoons the decline began. No kid runs home after to school today because they are afraid of missing their favorite episode, it's all on Netflix now...what little and minute amount there is.

Once the restrictions on Saturday Morning Cartoons became so daunting that the Toy companies that used to put commercials on them gave up. Then the Networks quickly followed.

How many of those great 80's cartoons were created in service of a toy line? GI Joe, Transformers, TMNT, GoBots, Thunder Cats, HeMan, Silver Hawks, Care Bears, My Little Pony...the list is a long one.

It's surprising we get as much animation as we do given the medium doesn't really sell toys the way it used to. Give credit to The Simpsons for showing that there's a market for adult animation or the situation would be even worse I figure.

[Zauriel]

I prefer anime to Superhero cartoons but I do enjoy a few non-superhero cartoons namely the Simpsons.

Anyone who thinks anime is for kids should watch Goblin Slayers, Elfen Lied, Fist of the North Star, or Kodomo no Jikan.

[GamerSlyRatchet]

I don't think it's about the Networks, but mostly parents and audience choice.

No, there's been cases of networks and toy companies playing favorites even before shows start. Compare how Teen Titans Go was treated in its debut (plenty of ads months before the start, toys immediately slated to come out, plenty of reruns already scheduled) versus Beware the Batman (a single ad that aired two weeks before, no toys or merch because Mattel wanted to make its own Batman line, only a single rerun). When the network ensures that shows they don't like have as little viewings as possible, how can you expect them to do well among audiences?

[Frontier]

No, there's been cases of networks and toy companies playing favorites even before shows start. Compare how Teen Titans Go was treated in its debut (plenty of ads months before the start, toys immediately slated to come out, plenty of reruns already scheduled) versus Beware the Batman (a single ad that aired two weeks before, no toys or merch because Mattel wanted to make its own Batman line, only a single rerun). When the network ensures that shows they don't like have as little viewings as possible, how can you expect them to do well among audiences?

Or compare TTG! to Justice League Action...

[Castle]

Marvel fans can look forward to Spiderverse 2.

DC fans can look forward to more DC animated films and the Harley series on HBO Max

Cartoons and animations are not officially dead though their golden years may have passed.

[the COMET]

I'm a DC animation fan as well, from the Fleischer's Superman up to today's animated movies. And yes, something happened after JLU. Suddenly, DC tv animation shifted from focusing on lore to become popcorn entertainment, probably to reach a larger audience.

For those who like lore and more serious stories there's the animated movies. Are they enough? I could use a couple more releases per year. If HBOMAX becames a success they could start producing animation as well. If they are smart there is.

But a great solution would be japanese companies making DC anime since their anime genre formulas are so saturated now, there are countless school anime titles, idol anime titles, and they are all basically the same. DC characters and history would give them a large library of material to work with.

[PCN24454]

I remember reading about how Hulk and Smallville could be classified as Tokusatsu shows, so it's got me thinking about what they would be like if they were made by someone like Toei or Tsubaraya.