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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by dswynne View Post
    Real answer? MONEY, and the value of the IPs.

    Comix book answer? All the replacements allowed for the writers to try for something different. We already know about the side-kicks' stories, so why not try something new? Besides, this was around the time that Superman's death produced more Supermen, so why not try something similar with other properties?
    For the most part the sidekicks besides Wally and Dick never had stories. And, go figure, Wally and Dick turned out the best for it.

  2. #32
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    I don't see why there can't be two Flash books. Like how Marvel had Captain America Sam Wilson and Captain America Steve Rogers running at the same time a few years ago. One book for Barry, and the other for Wally. There's enough Flash Family members to split between them as supporting cast.

    But, can any of the other Titans, except for Dick, support their own book? If they can't, they'll always be lesser than their mentors.
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  3. #33
    DC/Collected Editions Mod The Darknight Detective's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by married guy View Post
    While I get that, I think both Dick as Batman and Wally as Flash proved the characters COULD take over the mantle and it will work.
    The Dick/Damien dynamic was an absolute blast and Wally (for me) simply IS the Flash.

    If DC was really serious, they definitely COULD have the Titans step up and take over their mentor's roles.
    Of course they could work and then the next wave could replace them and... wait, some of you don't like that part?
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    I don't see why there can't be two Flash books. Like how Marvel had Captain America Sam Wilson and Captain America Steve Rogers running at the same time a few years ago. One book for Barry, and the other for Wally. There's enough Flash Family members to split between them as supporting cast.
    Question is if they could sell tow Flash books, with Captain America it didn't really worked on the long run.

    It workes with Spiderman, but Spiderman is saleswise way closer to Batman than any of the Titan mentors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    But, can any of the other Titans, except for Dick, support their own book? If they can't, they'll always be lesser than their mentors.
    I doubt it. The other mentors have all way lower sales than Batman, the other Titans would have to sell almost as many books as their mentors to not be cancelled (and at least in case of Green Arrow and Aquaman even the mentors sell often barely enough to keep their books going).
    While Nightwing and the other Batman characters still only have to sell about a quater of what the main Batman book is selling and have still decent sales numbers.

    Some of the NTT characters (Raven, Starfire ...) might actually have a better chance, since they have a larger fanbase due to the cartoons.

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Most of the legacies mentioned in the OP were intended to be temporary.

    As for the hopes of permanent replacements for the O5 Titans taking up their mentors mantles...Wally proved it could work, but I also don't think it would be easy to just do the same formula across the board, and if it was I think that time has passed for most of them. In the case of Donna, she's somehow both not a very complex character and also incredibly convoluted. Wonder Woman has plenty of her own problems, but she's still at her core a bigger and more interesting icon/archetype/character than either of the Flashes she was contemporaries with, so Donna has a bigger hurdle to overcome (especially now) than Wally did. It doesn't help that Donna's claim to fame is an ensemble team book from the 80s in which she was the nice "Team Mom" with a compelling but simple character arc (wanting to know her origins) that was effectively wrapped up and then she was done. And then she became a convoluted continuity nightmare that may not be worth the effort of unraveling. If we were to pass the mantle of Wonder Woman to someone else (which we all know would be temporary at this point), Nubia is shaping up to be the better option. Even as far as Wonder Girls go, Yara may be more appealing as she obviously has significantly less baggage and offers diversity.

    With Garth...well, Aquaman is only recently shaking the reputation as being a joke. Asking audiences to care about the classic sidekick from the era of classic joke Aquaman seems like an uphill battle if we're going to swap Aquaman out with him. Even among the O5 Titans, he's kind of always been the unremarkable fifth wheel. I can see the appeal of Kaldur over him these days, and Aqualads in general might be redundant since his main prolific fighting partner these days is Mera

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Darknight Detective View Post
    Of course they could work and then the next wave could replace them and... wait, some of you don't like that part?
    Nah, that sounds excellent. It'd be great if comics could have a progressive history and better reflect modern society rather than mollycoddling the status quo of the 60s.

  7. #37
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    I honestly would've preferred it if Wally had his own identity rather than just becoming the Flash. Now he's the weird one in comparison to the other Titans.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I honestly would've preferred it if Wally had his own identity rather than just becoming the Flash. Now he's the weird one in comparison to the other Titans.
    I'm just noticing that myself. Dick has Nightwing, Garth has Tempest, Roy has (had) Arsenal, Donna had Troia (however lackluster that name was). Wally could use a name other than Flash or Kid Flash. I'm sure there are still a few 'runner' names out there that haven't been pillaged yet for the Flash Rogues Gallery, like Marathon, Alacrity, Velocity or something.

    Can't believe some wag hasn't made an eccentric Latinx speedster called Locomotion yet.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post
    In the case of Donna, she's somehow both not a very complex character and also incredibly convoluted. Wonder Woman has plenty of her own problems, but she's still at her core a bigger and more interesting icon/archetype/character than either of the Flashes she was contemporaries with, so Donna has a bigger hurdle to overcome (especially now) than Wally did. It doesn't help that Donna's claim to fame is an ensemble team book from the 80s in which she was the nice "Team Mom" with a compelling but simple character arc (wanting to know her origins) that was effectively wrapped up and then she was done. And then she became a convoluted continuity nightmare that may not be worth the effort of unraveling. If we were to pass the mantle of Wonder Woman to someone else (which we all know would be temporary at this point), Nubia is shaping up to be the better option. Even as far as Wonder Girls go, Yara may be more appealing as she obviously has significantly less baggage and offers diversity.
    Nubias origin is also kind of convoluted (starting as Dianas twin sister, how was kidnapped by Ares in pre crisis), and she is a really minor character in the Wonder Woman franchise with very few appearances.

  10. #40
    Uncanny Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Question is if they could sell tow Flash books, with Captain America it didn't really worked on the long run.
    We know they can. Wally's recent mini Flash Forward sold about the same numbers as Barry's book did at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I'm just noticing that myself. Dick has Nightwing, Garth has Tempest, Roy has (had) Arsenal, Donna had Troia (however lackluster that name was). Wally could use a name other than Flash or Kid Flash. I'm sure there are still a few 'runner' names out there that haven't been pillaged yet for the Flash Rogues Gallery, like Marathon, Alacrity, Velocity or something.
    Velocity actually exists. He's a clone of Jay Garrick.
    https://dc.fandom.com/wiki/Jay_Garri...ne_(New_Earth)
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiegePerilous02 View Post

    With Garth...well, Aquaman is only recently shaking the reputation as being a joke. Asking audiences to care about the classic sidekick from the era of classic joke Aquaman seems like an uphill battle if we're going to swap Aquaman out with him.
    If we're going to hold the era Garth appeared in against him, we might as well do the same for Mera or even Aquaman himself. None of these characters are what they are when they debuted.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    We know they can. Wally's recent mini Flash Forward sold about the same numbers as Barry's book did at the same time.
    A mini that leads up to an major event isn't really the same as an ongoing.

    A lot of people might have read it that would normally not read a Flash series (nighter with Wally or Barry).

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Z View Post
    If we're going to hold the era Garth appeared in against him, we might as well do the same for Mera or even Aquaman himself. None of these characters are what they are when they debuted.
    Bigger problem with Aquaman is, that his book also only sold about 20K copies per issue (= barely above the cancellation line) pre pandemic.
    Unless a Tempest book can sell as many copies as an Aquaman, that book has no chance.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    I honestly would've preferred it if Wally had his own identity rather than just becoming the Flash. Now he's the weird one in comparison to the other Titans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sutekh View Post
    I'm just noticing that myself. Dick has Nightwing, Garth has Tempest, Roy has (had) Arsenal, Donna had Troia (however lackluster that name was). Wally could use a name other than Flash or Kid Flash. I'm sure there are still a few 'runner' names out there that haven't been pillaged yet for the Flash Rogues Gallery, like Marathon, Alacrity, Velocity or something.

    Can't believe some wag hasn't made an eccentric Latinx speedster called Locomotion yet.
    Why would you want Wally to be more like the rest of the Titans who have been fucked over for decades? Taking on the name is what saved Wally from a life of abject retcons and BS for 20 years. Seriously, why would you want Wally to have the same situation as Garth or Donna?

    It also ignores the most important part of Wally's character development, when he plainly states that he is The Flash whether Barry's back or not in The Return of Barry Allen. I just don't understand how anyone can feign Wally support while discarding his most monumental story.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dred View Post
    Why would you want Wally to be more like the rest of the Titans who have been fucked over for decades? Taking on the name is what saved Wally from a life of abject retcons and BS for 20 years. Seriously, why would you want Wally to have the same situation as Garth or Donna?

    It also ignores the most important part of Wally's character development, when he plainly states that he is The Flash whether Barry's back or not in The Return of Barry Allen. I just don't understand how anyone can feign Wally support while discarding his most monumental story.
    Wally's DC's most successful legacy who who made it to the big time. He should be Barry's peer and have his own book, we know he has what it takes to last.

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