Ideal Rogue’s gallery size.

[mathew101281]

We all know that having a hero with too few villains can be an issue sometimes. But I’d argue having to many villains can also be a problem. I thing the ideal rogue’s gallery size is a good diverse and distinct collection between 4 and 9. Less then that it starts to get repetitive, with the same villains showing up over and over again. But with any more then that you start getting alot of thematic and conceptual repeats. (How many different goblins and Venom derivatives do you need Spider-Man?)

[PCN24454]

As many as the plot requires.

All in all, rogues galleries aren't as necessary as varied villain plots.

[mathew101281]

As many as the plot requires.

All in all, rogues galleries aren't as necessary as varied villain plots.

Maybe in an ideal world, but when you look at the raw numbers, the sales charts seem to be dominated by heroes with large rogue’s galleries. You have Batman and Spider-Man battling for the top spot, a drop off then characters like Superman and Flash. The rest of the top ten fluctuates, and is made up almost exclusively of heroes that have a small group of consistent rogues or are at the peak of a fad. The fad ones tend to drop out of the top ten pretty quickly though. The 90’s top ten was probably filled with edgy antiheroes that no one talks about today.

[The no face guy]

I don't think you can have too many rogues, I like the idea that a Batman writer can pull out an obscure rogue once in a blue moon...and your like, wow I totally forgot about him, that's super cool.

A steady gallery of 10 regulars is good for me though, the problem being of course, if they are used too much (The Joker) than you fatigue of them too quickly and they lose their appeal.

[Mister Mets]

It's fine to have a lot of villains. It can be accessible for new readers if you do stories with new villains, as well as villains who haven't appeared very often.

Readers should not be expected to keep track of these bad guys, so in the sense of bad guys a reader should be expected to remember over the course of a run the number should be smaller, maybe ten at max.

[PCN24454]

It's fine to have a lot of villains. It can be accessible for new readers if you do stories with new villains, as well as villains who haven't appeared very often.

Readers should not be expected to keep track of these bad guys, so in the sense of bad guys a reader should be expected to remember over the course of a run the number should be smaller, maybe ten at max.

You have a point. Even Superman's rogues gallery is far larger and more extensive than people realize.

You couldn't even name all of Spider-Man's rogues without some sort of guide.

[DrNewGod]

I'm in the "no such thing as too many" camp. Even when there are redundancies among them (Mr. Element v. Dr. Alchemy or Sandman v. Hydroman), as long as something can be done with the characters to make them distinctive, the more the merrier.

[Jim Kelly]

Mr. Element was Dr. Alchemy. That was the point--it was a neat trick with the character's pathology. It would be like if Green Goblin adopted another identity.

I think the reason that super-heroes with long histories attract a large rogues gallery is that they go through different waves of popularity. For example, Batman's traditional villains were mostly retired when the Comic Code came in (the Joker being the only one that survived) and a bunch of new knaves were introduced. Then when Julius Schwartz took over he retired those post-Code crooks and introduced a bunch of New Look ones, as well as slowly bringing back the traditional villains. Then after Batmania, most of the New Look baddies and most of the traditional villains were sidelined, so Frank Robbins and Denny O'Neil introduced a bunch of even newer foes. So you have these different waves of Bat-villains and by the late 1970s, editors recycled through these different felon franchises, bringing back from obscurity characters like Clayface, Catman, Hugo Strange even Mr. Freeze. And so it goes.

[DrNewGod]

Mr. Element was Dr. Alchemy. That was the point--it was a neat trick with the character's pathology. It would be like if Green Goblin adopted another identity.

I think the reason that super-heroes with long histories attract a large rogues gallery is that they go through different waves of popularity. For example, Batman's traditional villains were mostly retired when the Comic Code came in (the Joker being the only one that survived) and a bunch of new knaves were introduced. Then when Julius Schwartz took over he retired those post-Code crooks and introduced a bunch of New Look ones, as well as slowly bringing back the traditional villains. Then after Batmania, most of the New Look baddies and most of the traditional villains were sidelined, so Frank Robbins and Denny O'Neil introduced a bunch of even newer foes. So you have these different waves of Bat-villains and by the late 1970s, editors recycled through these different felon franchises, bringing back from obscurity characters like Clayface, Catman, Hugo Strange even Mr. Freeze. And so it goes.

They did start as the same guy, but didn't they separate Dr. Alchemy and Mr. Element? If that won't work, I'll amend the DC example to Prankster and Toyman. All that is beside the point.

The point is, even if they're superficially similar, as long as the adversaries have something that can make a story distinctively work, we don't have eliminate Jax-Ur as a rogue just because General Zod has a similar powerset.

[mathew101281]

how often are some of the lesser-known rogue's in a large rogue's gallery actually used? It feels like Batman and Spiderman have about 6 or 8 villains that they use a lot. Another 1 or 2 that they use sparingly and then a bunch of one-off villains that are used every blue moon mostly as comedic sight gags or as fanservice for fans. And with story arches being longer nowadays, you usually only get one or two main villains a year per book. (Bats and Spidey have multiple books). A hero with one book probably only needs 6 or so villains.

[The no face guy]

how often are some of the lesser-known rogue's in a large rogue's gallery actually used? It feels like Batman and Spiderman have about 6 or 8 villains that they use a lot. Another 1 or 2 that they use sparingly and then a bunch of one-off villains that are used every blue moon mostly as comedic sight gags or as fanservice for fans. And with story arches being longer nowadays, you usually only get one or two main villains a year per book. (Bats and Spidey have multiple books). A hero with one book probably only needs 6 or so villains.

Hmmm, I disagree, if you only have 6 rogues than they get rotated too quickly, and they burn out fast. Let's take a look at Batman Rogues....

1) Joker
2) Penguin
3) Riddler
4) Catwoman
5) Scarecrow
6) Poison Ivy

That would get boring, but thankfully you have...

7) Bane
8) Killer Croc
9) Mad Hatter
10) Clayface
11) Ra Sa Ghul
12) Scarface

So you have a solid 12 there (and I'm sure someone will point out I've missed someone on top of that)

Than you have all your third tier rogues who don't show up too often, but are still super cool (The Owls, Black Mask, Ratcatcher) The list is endless and I love it, because if they are good, use them

[PCN24454]

Another thing is that enemies that superheroes have to face don't necessarily have to be rogues. They fight a bunch of one-off villains all the time.

It helps pace out their recurring villains.

[worstblogever]

You have to think of this with Spidey or Batman being the best example (Flash, as well)... and they have a half century if not in Batman's case almost a whole century of characters to accumulate.

But it's, "how many in the top tier?" And the answer is six, per the Sinister Six rule (invoking Stan Lee's judgment on this). When you include the next tier, 12-13 (a Hush story arc, for example). Everyone else who ever battled them is just filler in the gallery.

[PCN24454]

But it's, "how many in the top tier?" And the answer is six, per the Sinister Six rule (invoking Stan Lee's judgment on this). When you include the next tier, 12-13 (a Hush story arc, for example). Everyone else who ever battled them is just filler in the gallery.

I know you didn't really mean anything malicious by that, but that mentality feels incredibly limiting.

There are lots of people (writers and fans alike) that treat characters like Mysterio as a joke because he's not a main antagonist. It's one of the reasons why Shocker is treated like he's not a threat.

[DrNewGod]

You have to think of this with Spidey or Batman being the best example (Flash, as well)... and they have a half century if not in Batman's case almost a whole century of characters to accumulate.

But it's, "how many in the top tier?" And the answer is six, per the Sinister Six rule (invoking Stan Lee's judgment on this). When you include the next tier, 12-13 (a Hush story arc, for example). Everyone else who ever battled them is just filler in the gallery.

Did Lee have a rule about that, or was it just nifty alliteration (of which he was so very fond)? I don't dispute your statement, I'd just never heard that before.