The Mandalorian As An Argument Against TLJ.

[godisawesome]

Is it too late to resurrect Luke Skywalker?

I really do feel there are still a metric ton of stories to be told with his character.

There’s still about 10-15 years before The Most Worthless Skywalker Of All has his emo-storyline in TROS that was supposed to white wash him of killing fellow students but still doesn’t seem to know what the hell his problem is, so Luke’s got some serious time for cover.

The biggest thing I’d notice here, though, is this; Favreau and Filoni clearly believe in at least planning one step ahead, which would be immensely beneficial to Luke, since that was something Johnson clearly didn’t do for *anyone* in TLJ. They’re not laying out absolutely everything down in concrete, but they’re at least thinking about what could and should be set-up next.

As such... I feel Luke’ story is already marginally healthier for TM giving him a student to help train who probably won’t be killed by Darth Affluenza - meaning that Ben Solo likely isn’t Luke’s last (and unworthy) surviving apprentice, but Grogu instead, so Luke’s not a complete failure anymore. It’s entirely possible F&F might have some ideas for what types of stories Luke should be experiencing now, aside from getting set-up for a pretentious Man-Pain story.

But I also wouldn’t be surprised if this was a once-in-a-lifetime move they made, and that perhaps broaching Luke’s story is still something you walk on eggshells with around LFL.

[j9ac9k]

So at what point down the line will Rey finish her training with Grogu and start up the Jedi again....?

[thwhtGuardian]

So at what point down the line will Rey finish her training with Grogu and start up the Jedi again....?

Eh, I say we sweep that under the rug and flash forward a hundred years to see Master Grogu founding a new Jedi Order.

[Will Evans]

Unless there’s something non-subtle like someone on the Mandalorian saying “I’m never going to Canto Bight. That place sucks.”
Then I would say the Mandalorian is not an argument against TLJ.

[godisawesome]

Unless there’s something non-subtle like someone on the Mandalorian saying “I’m never going to Canto Bight. That place sucks.”
Then I would say the Mandalorian is not an argument against TLJ.

Oh yeah, it’s never going to do that; and as much as I’d salivate over someone making a post-ST story where someone bluntly points out Ben Solo wasn’t sympathetic and Rey wouldn’t have cared about him if not for the Force making her partake in an abusive relationship she suffered for... that’s probably too much of a “mea culpa” on LFL’s part to ever happen.

But metaphorically? And in terms of impact on the fanbase and franchise?

Oh yeah, I think it needs to be considered a firm counter-example to TLJ’s priorities, vision, and flaws, even if an unintentional one.

We’ve got the show treating Bill Burr’s guest character with the kind of respect and ambition Johnson absolutely refused to give John Boyega as Finn, even though Boyega was hired to be the male lead and Burr’s a guest star.

We’ve got outright “fanservice” moments that follow what fans have wanted and speculated about for years, but still actually helping the main characters story, while TLJ was bound and determined to avoid what people wanted but also failed to have Luke actually help Rey’s story.

We’ve got this show managing to actually be big on inclusivity and feminism without any hypocritical failures like in TLJ. While Rian Johnson was busy sabotaging the purpose he had for Holdo by giving in to “gotcha” writing and submitting Rey’s entire personality to the laziest Kylo arc he could, we have multiple authoritative and powerful female characters, and a strike team in the final episode composed entirely of female characters. Not to mention, the show hasn’t demoted or supplanted any of its minority actors, or accidentally beeping racist by belittling and infantilizing them like TLJ did with John Boyega while to was busy fixating on two white guys instead, including a very boring and shallow one.

Hell, we’ve even got another case of treating a lightsaber as an Excalibur-style device... but can you tell me honestly that anyone thinks these guys are going to waste it the way Johnson did in TLJ?

This show almost certainly isn’t meant to be a repudiation of TLJ’s storyline ideas and creativity; heck, we’ve actually got Filoni pointing out that he got some hands on training from Johnson on TLJ’s set, which so great, as Johnson as a director is still completely unimpeachable even if Johnson as a writer failed.

But oh yeah, I’m totally going to use The Mandalorian as a counter-example to all the bullshit arguments people have for TLJ. If someone has honest and well thought-out praise and defense for TLJ, than I’m going to respect that and grapple with it well. But if I hear any bullshit trying to praise it as well written, progressive, or “neccessary”, I’ve got The Mandalorian to add to The Force Awakens as a counter-example that’s seen more positive feedback form everyone.

[Wolverine12]

I thought Luke’s line “talent without training is nothing” was a not so subtle jab at the ST.

[Frobisher]

Probably the Mandalorian season two actually vindicated some of the artistic decisions of The Last Jedi by coming within a hair’s breadth of showing how easily unrestrained fan wank (Boba Fett kicking ass! Thrawn reference! Luke kicking ass!) could ruin a good thing. Fortunately that stuff never quite overwhelmed the story the series was supposed to be telling.

[godisawesome]

Probably the Mandalorian season two actually vindicated some of the artistic decisions of The Last Jedi by coming within a hair’s breadth of showing how easily unrestrained fan wank (Boba Fett kicking ass! Thrawn reference! Luke kicking ass!) could ruin a good thing. Fortunately that stuff never quite overwhelmed the story the series was supposed to be telling.

Considering that the show had Ashoka show, and be awesome, Bo-Katan show up, and be awesome, Boba Fett show up, be awesome, and Luke show up, and be awesome... yet Din and Grogu clearly remained the heart of the show, it’s most important characters, and emerged more popular than even before with all those appearances...

...I’m going to call the “unrestrained fan wank” argument for TLJ absolute and utter bullshit.

The series delivered stuff people have either been waiting on or arguing in favor of for literally decades, and Din Djarin is better off than Rey was after Rian Johnson’s dime-a-dozen “sad-man-pain” formulae got applied to Luke.

And let’s not pretend like TLK pimping out Rey to shill Kylo Ren/Ben Solo wasn’t “unrestrained fan wank” itself.

Like everything else, it really comes down to execution and concept. The Mandalorian had a more fan-friendly concept and A+ execution, so that’s going to leave a better impact that D+ to F-level concepts and A+ to C- execution in The Last Jedi. Johnson executed his Luke story pretty well, but the concept was awful. And nothing about Rey, Finn, or Kylo’s story is worthy of defending.