What should DC do with Firestorm?

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I thought Brightest Day's mixing of Ronnie and Jason was a great new take that retained the jock/nerd dichotomy while also adding in some interesting racial tension. But then Flashpoint blew all that up and the New 52 version of Firestorm didn't work for anybody.

Doomsday Clock seemingly ignored all that then proceeded to blow up the premise of the original by revealing the "true" origin of the character.

What would you like to see done with Firestorm moving forward?

[Frontier]

At the end of the day I think Ronnie Raymond and Martin Stein should be Firestorm, but I think Jason should be able to form his own Firestorm either with his own partner or Gehenna and they work in tandem to some extent.

Professor Stein should not be a government agent who manipulated Ronnie and the whole situation to create a Nuclear Man and then basically cover it all up. And who then gets arrested off-screen without dealing with the fallout with Ronnie.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

At the end of the day I think Ronnie Raymond and Martin Stein should be Firestorm, but I think Jason should be able to form his own Firestorm either with his own partner or Gehenna and they work in tandem to some extent.

Professor Stein should not be a government agent who manipulated Ronnie and the whole situation to create a Nuclear Man and then basically cover it all up. And who then gets arrested off-screen without dealing with the fallout with Ronnie.

Given how many readers Doomsday Clock had, it doesn't make much sense to ignore it completely. How would you reconcile all that to get Ronnie & Stein back together?

[Robanker]

The only problem I have with Ronnie/Jason is, effectively, Ronnie has to be the face of Firestorm because he literally offers nothing intellectually compared to Jason, who gets relegated to Professor Stein. I think the concept could work and really shine if Ronnie was given more character and wasn't treated like Joe Everyguy McCollege Student where he actually has his own area of expertise that can allow him to offer good advice/information as the voice in the matrix. But as of right now, he's (at best) just a cool guy along for the ride. Jason has to do all the heavy lifting and then you effectively have a white guy being piloted by a black guy who has to do all the work while the white dude gets to bask in the adoration from people they save. Every time. Not the best look. For this combo to work, you need each of them to contribute to where it feels like a real partnership. Making Ronnie an athlete really doesn't matter when Firestorm flies and mixes elements. Not sure how catching a Hail Mary for first down is going to come in handy in nuclear fission.

Maybe make him a film student who wants to be a special effects/pyrotechnics guy? He won't really be thinking about how to make the elements work together so much as what they can do with them; he'd be creativity to Jason's intellect. That way they're always completing the other side of the matrix for one another.

Something that may work, which admittedly is kind of stealing from Shazam, is to make them adopted brothers and have them look out for each other and deal with how while Ronnie used to protect his nerdier younger brother, now he kind of doesn't bring anything to the table and make their core narrative about how essentially Ronnie has peaked and needs to develop himself into someone better whereas Jason starts to come into his own. It works fine with them just being college friends too, but I really can't figure out how to keep these two together long-term where Ronnie doesn't just become the load or de facto pilot of Firestorm while Jason gets to be a talking head.

I think it works short-term but Firestorm with Ronnie was about Ronnie as quarterback and Stein as coach. There's not much else there. It can work, but he's the crutch as I see it. Which pains me because I like Ronnie a lot, but when he shares the matrix with Jason is when the dynamic needs to change.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The only problem I have with Ronnie/Jason is, effectively, Ronnie has to be the face of Firestorm because he literally offers nothing intellectually compared to Jason, who gets relegated to Professor Stein. I think the concept could work and really shine if Ronnie was given more character and wasn't treated like Joe Everyguy McCollege Student where he actually has his own area of expertise that can allow him to offer good advice/information as the voice in the matrix. But as of right now, he's (at best) just a cool guy along for the ride. Jason has to do all the heavy lifting and then you effectively have a white guy being piloted by a black guy who has to do all the work while the white dude gets to bask in the adoration from people they save. Every time. Not the best look. For this combo to work, you need each of them to contribute to where it feels like a real partnership. Making Ronnie an athlete really doesn't matter when Firestorm flies and mixes elements. Not sure how catching a Hail Mary for first down is going to come in handy in nuclear fission.

Maybe make him a film student who wants to be a special effects/pyrotechnics guy? He won't really be thinking about how to make the elements work together so much as what they can do with them; he'd be creativity to Jason's intellect. That way they're always completing the other side of the matrix for one another.

Something that may work, which admittedly is kind of stealing from Shazam, is to make them adopted brothers and have them look out for each other and deal with how while Ronnie used to protect his nerdier younger brother, now he kind of doesn't bring anything to the table and make their core narrative about how essentially Ronnie has peaked and needs to develop himself into someone better whereas Jason starts to come into his own. It works fine with them just being college friends too, but I really can't figure out how to keep these two together long-term where Ronnie doesn't just become the load or de facto pilot of Firestorm while Jason gets to be a talking head.

I think it works short-term but Firestorm with Ronnie was about Ronnie as quarterback and Stein as coach. There's not much else there. It can work, but he's the crutch as I see it. Which pains me because I like Ronnie a lot, but when he shares the matrix with Jason is when the dynamic needs to change.

I think the problematic nature of the Ronnie/Jason pair is what makes it so full of potential. Having the dumb white jock get all the credit while the nerdy black kid does all the work is a great hook that gives both characters something real to deal with that subsequent creators can play with, particularly if you swap their roles unexpectedly

[Robanker]

I think the problematic nature of the Ronnie/Jason pair is what makes it so full of potential. Having the dumb white jock get all the credit while the nerdy black kid does all the work is a great hook that gives both characters something real to deal with that subsequent creators can play with, particularly if you swap their roles unexpectedly

I'd be down with exploring that problematic nature if they got their own dedicated book, but if it's a subplot for a character who has no way of actually giving it page time, I'd rather settle for a healthier status quo for Firestorm.

You absolutely know Ronnie's the kind of idiot who would (as Firestorm) joke "I'm half black" if he ever said something that came across as racially insensitive and not realize how much worse he made it.

"Ronnie, I don't even have hands in the Firestorm matrix and I'm facepalming right now. I had to reconfigure the matrix itself to allow myself to have hands just so I can do that. Let me drive."

"Bro it's cool, I've got this."

(Now double facepalming) "Please, Ronnie. Just stop. We're going to get cancelled."

[OBrianTallent]

The only problem I have with Ronnie/Jason is, effectively, Ronnie has to be the face of Firestorm because he literally offers nothing intellectually compared to Jason, who gets relegated to Professor Stein. I think the concept could work and really shine if Ronnie was given more character and wasn't treated like Joe Everyguy McCollege Student where he actually has his own area of expertise that can allow him to offer good advice/information as the voice in the matrix. But as of right now, he's (at best) just a cool guy along for the ride. Jason has to do all the heavy lifting and then you effectively have a white guy being piloted by a black guy who has to do all the work while the white dude gets to bask in the adoration from people they save. Every time. Not the best look. For this combo to work, you need each of them to contribute to where it feels like a real partnership. Making Ronnie an athlete really doesn't matter when Firestorm flies and mixes elements. Not sure how catching a Hail Mary for first down is going to come in handy in nuclear fission.

Maybe make him a film student who wants to be a special effects/pyrotechnics guy? He won't really be thinking about how to make the elements work together so much as what they can do with them; he'd be creativity to Jason's intellect. That way they're always completing the other side of the matrix for one another.

Something that may work, which admittedly is kind of stealing from Shazam, is to make them adopted brothers and have them look out for each other and deal with how while Ronnie used to protect his nerdier younger brother, now he kind of doesn't bring anything to the table and make their core narrative about how essentially Ronnie has peaked and needs to develop himself into someone better whereas Jason starts to come into his own. It works fine with them just being college friends too, but I really can't figure out how to keep these two together long-term where Ronnie doesn't just become the load or de facto pilot of Firestorm while Jason gets to be a talking head.

I think it works short-term but Firestorm with Ronnie was about Ronnie as quarterback and Stein as coach. There's not much else there. It can work, but he's the crutch as I see it. Which pains me because I like Ronnie a lot, but when he shares the matrix with Jason is when the dynamic needs to change.

Love the idea for Ronnie being a film/special effects student! It would definitely add to his character and balance the intellectual side for Jason.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I'd be down with exploring that problematic nature if they got their own dedicated book, but if it's a subplot for a character who has no way of actually giving it page time, I'd rather settle for a healthier status quo for Firestorm.

You absolutely know Ronnie's the kind of idiot who would (as Firestorm) joke "I'm half black" if he ever said something that came across as racially insensitive and not realize how much worse he made it.

"Ronnie, I don't even have hands in the Firestorm matrix and I'm facepalming right now. I had to reconfigure the matrix itself to allow myself to have hands just so I can do that. Let me drive."

"Bro it's cool, I've got this."

(Now double facepalming) "Please, Ronnie. Just stop. We're going to get cancelled."

I think you could make it work in a team book as a slowly brewing subplot that explodes when Jason gets pissed. My students adore Firestorm in Justice League Action, where Ronnie is in full dumb jock mode.

The Ronnie/Stein pairing was a neat twist in the late 70s/80s, but I think having Ronnie/Jason is a much more interesting pairing now, particularly after Doomsday Clock turned Stein into the Doom Patrol's Chief.

[Robanker]

I think you could make it work in a team book as a slowly brewing subplot that explodes when Jason gets pissed. My students adore Firestorm in Justice League Action, where Ronnie is in full dumb jock mode.

The Ronnie/Stein pairing was a neat twist in the late 70s/80s, but I think having Ronnie/Jason is a much more interesting pairing now, particularly after Doomsday Clock turned Stein into the Doom Patrol's Chief.

Not gonna lie I just want Stein and Cauldur's Terrible Adventures to be a thing now. Could you even imagine...? But I digress. I agree with Ronnie/Jason being more interesting, I just think Ronnie needs to be shored up a bit to make the concept sing.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Not gonna lie I just want Stein and Cauldur's Terrible Adventures to be a thing now. Could you even imagine...? But I digress. I agree with Ronnie/Jason being more interesting, I just think Ronnie needs to be shored up a bit to make the concept sing.

I don't think we're getting a Firestorm book anytime soon so it'll be interesting to see if anyone picks up Firestorm after Doomsday Clock swiftboated him into the limbo of broken toys.

[Riv86672]

I thought Brightest Day's mixing of Ronnie and Jason was a great new take that retained the jock/nerd dichotomy while also adding in some interesting racial tension. But then Flashpoint blew all that up and the New 52 version of Firestorm didn't work for anybody.

Doomsday Clock seemingly ignored all that then proceeded to blow up the premise of the original by revealing the "true" origin of the character.

What would you like to see done with Firestorm moving forward?

Take the concept back to basics w. Ronnie and Stein.

Even if you take them out of a schoolhouse setting, you can still have Stein, a noted scientist, working on a for hire basis basically anywhere in the DCU, w. Ronnie as his right hand man and forming Firestorm when things inevitably go pear shaped.
The concept would allow for putting together a crew to work w. the duo, as a supporting cast.

[Digifiend]

Why not have MULTIPLE Firestorms? For example, Ronnie/Jason, and Jefferson Jackson and Professor Stein? The latter matches what the Arrowverse had, and adds diversity because Jefferson is black. But traditionalists would still be happy if the Ronnie version is still around.

[Riv86672]

Never liked the multiple Firestorms.

Which is odd because I’m okay w. multiple GLs, Flashes, Robins, and Beetles.

[ERON]

Maybe instead of multiple Firestorms, you could have a whole group of people of whom any two can form Firestorm at any given time. So sometimes Firestorm can be Ronnie and Stein, sometimes Ronnie and Jason, sometimes Jason and Stein, and you could maybe throw in one or two more individuals into the mix.

[Frontier]

Given how many readers Doomsday Clock had, it doesn't make much sense to ignore it completely. How would you reconcile all that to get Ronnie & Stein back together?

I mean, the main DCU comics have kind of just ignored Doomsday Clock already or just not addressed it, so I don't think there's anything to be lost from just using Ronnie and Stein normally.

I think you could make it work in a team book as a slowly brewing subplot that explodes when Jason gets pissed. My students adore Firestorm in Justice League Action, where Ronnie is in full dumb jock mode.

The Ronnie/Stein pairing was a neat twist in the late 70s/80s, but I think having Ronnie/Jason is a much more interesting pairing now, particularly after Doomsday Clock turned Stein into the Doom Patrol's Chief.

Ronnie wasn't a dumb jock in JLA. He was overly-enthusiastic and kind of an idiot at times but he was able to come up with ideas and use his powers without Stein needing to tell him what to do half the time.

Particularly in the Nuclear Family episode.