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  1. #301
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Not me, man. Thanks, but I have made this argument too many times to get involved into such conversation again. I said what I had to say, now you can continue with Red & Blue as far as I am concerned.
    And yet we keep pulling you back in

  2. #302
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    And yet we keep pulling you back in
    Ha! Nah, it's just the frustration (and the fact that from time to time I like to get back here to keep in touch with some old friend). My problem isn't actually even just Superman, but the decline of superhero books in general. Whenever I check the state of comics around the world (I have been, and to a degree I still am, an avid collector) I cannot but see that all of them - mangas, historietas, BD - have reached a certain degree of artistic recognition and are still relatively healthy sales-wise and quality-wise (with some compromises along the road, ups and downs, etc.). The only type of comics which regressed in a very evident way, or maybe I should say the ones which regressed the most, are superhero books (DC and, maybe, also Marvel - but I don't read Marvel these days. Image, IDW, Boom are in a different position). It breaks my heart, because I cannot but think of the wasted opportunity. Dark Knight Returns and Watchmen should be the norm rather than the exception. But even solid, consistent, medium/good level runs (triangle era, for example) may be enough, as long as they are done by someone who believes in the medium. The fact that these companies see their properties merely as IP factories for movies, videogames or TV series, together with the mistreatment of their creators, makes it abundantly clear that they don't actually believe in comics anymore. And that's the problem (I am quite sure that Smallville, Superman Returns, Man of Steel etc. are more connected to the inconsistencies in Superman books than anything, or anyone else). I may be interested in some of the adaptations from time to time, but there is stuff which can work only within the pages of a comic book. And using the books just as a cheap storyboard for a movie is a shame. Unfortunately, Paul Levitz was right when he said that DC was safe as long as Warner Bros didn't realize that they could exploit it for something more lucrative.
    Educational town, Rolemodel city and Moralofthestory land are the places where good comics go to die.

    DC writers and editors looked up and shouted "Save us!"
    And Alan Moore looked down and whispered "No."

    I'm kinda surprised Snyder didn't want Superman to watch Lois and Bruce conceive their love child. All the while singing the "Na na na na na na Batman!" theme song - Robotman, 03/06/2021

  3. #303
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post
    Unfortunately, Paul Levitz was right when he said that DC was safe as long as Warner Bros didn't realize that they could exploit it for something more lucrative.
    Yeah, Levitz has emerged as a one of the few guys in the comics industry who genuinely tried to use his position to keep the worst instincts of his corporate overlords at bay.

    Even the stuff he was raked over the coals for at the time, like the censoring of Millar’s Authority are beginning to make more sense than they did back then.

  4. #304
    Extraordinary Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Wasn't Levitz also responsible for cancelling The Boys?

  5. #305
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myskin View Post

    "Buuuut... I don't like cold, post-Crisis Krypton!". That's not the point. Apart from the fact that a lot of people enjoyed it and the most influential one for most modern Superman fans, it was SOMETHING. By the way, I wasn't a huge fan myself (I may change my idea should I reread it though), but it's hard not to acknowledge how well-done it was. And this goes beyond individual tastes. Someone might have some issues with it, but it was distinct, unique, and the worldbuilding was extremely accurate and really influential on the stories. The current, generic Krypton we have now (together with all of the other elements which they keep vague because they don't understand whether they are still canon or not themselves) is NOTHING.
    Apart from the Man of Steel film, the cold sterile Krypton has been avoided by non-comic mediums for years even Lois & Clark and Superman TAS that were both heavily influenced by the Post Crisis era of Superman comics avoided that version of Krypton like the plague as well as the "Superman being born on Earth" aspect (which I feel was a thinly veiled concept of Byrne's views on immigration).
    No matter how many reboots, new origins, reinterpretations or suit redesigns. In the end, he will always be SUPERMAN

    Credit for avatar goes to zclark

  6. #306
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Wasn't Levitz also responsible for cancelling The Boys?
    Wouldn't surprise me.

  7. #307
    Invincible Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Wasn't Levitz also responsible for cancelling The Boys?
    Dunno if it was him specifically but DC wasn’t comfortable publishing a work that was so disdainful of their main product iirc.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  8. #308
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Dunno if it was him specifically but DC wasn’t comfortable publishing a work that was so disdainful of their main product iirc.
    Yes. He also nixed the JSA appearance in the JL cartoon at the last minute because he viewed it as mocking those characters after the comics had finally succeeded in revitalizing them.

    I may not have always agreed with Levitz, but he certainly had his heart in the right place.

  9. #309
    Superfan Through The Ages BBally's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bored at 3:00AM View Post
    Yes. He also nixed the JSA appearance in the JL cartoon at the last minute because he viewed it as mocking those characters after the comics had finally succeeded in revitalizing them.

    I may not have always agreed with Levitz, but he certainly had his heart in the right place.
    Unfortunately, he's also the reason why the Legion of Superheroes' timeline got royally screwed up because he didn't want to remove Clark Kent Superboy from the mythos, so we got the pocket universe stuff which messed up the timeline that led to several attempts to fix it until LOSH title went from being one of DC's bestselling titles even during Marvel's dominance to one nobody wanted to read.
    No matter how many reboots, new origins, reinterpretations or suit redesigns. In the end, he will always be SUPERMAN

    Credit for avatar goes to zclark

  10. #310
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    Wasn't Levitz also responsible for cancelling The Boys?
    As I understood it, he realized it was bad for DC to be associated with it but he did give them back all the rights so they could take it elsewhere unchanged, which the creative team was grateful for. There was little to no bad blood involved.
    May we never forget:

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius View Post
    Daddy Zeus can hit the bricks.
    Truer words never spoken.

  11. #311
    Ultimate Member Gaius's Avatar
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    Eisner Award Nominations

    Best Short Story
    "Funeral in Foam," by Casey Gilly and Raina Telgemeier, in You Died: An Anthology of the Afterlife (Iron Circus)
    "Generations," by Daniel Warren Johnson, in Superman: Red & Blue #5 (DC)
    "I Wanna Be a Slob," by Michael Kamison and Steven Arnold, in Too Tough to Die (Birdcage Bottom Books)
    "Tap, Tap, Tap," by Larry O'Neil and Jorge Fornés, in Green Arrow 80th Anniversary (DC)
    "Trickster, Traitor, Dummy, Doll," by Triple Dream (Mel Hilario, Katie Longua, and Lauren Davis), in The Nib Vol 9: Secrets (The Nib)
    Best Anthology
    Flash Forward: An Illustrated Guide to Possible (And Not So Possible) Tomorrows, by Rose Eveleth and various, edited by Laura Dozier (Abrams ComicArts)
    My Only Child, by Wang Ning and various, edited by Wang Saili, translation by Emma Massara (LICAF/Fanfare Presents)
    The Silver Coin, by Michael Walsh and various (Image)
    Superman: Red & Blue, edited by Jamie S. Rich, Brittany Holzherr, and Diegs Lopez (DC)
    You Died: An Anthology of the Afterlife, edited by Kel McDonald and Andrea Purcell (Iron Circus)
    Best Writer/Artist
    Best Writer/Artist

    Alison Bechdel, The Secret to Superhuman Strength (Mariner Books)
    Junji Ito, Deserter: Junji Ito Story Collection, Lovesickness: Junji Ito Story Collection, Sensor (VIZ Media)
    Daniel Warren Johnson, Superman: Red & Blue (DC); Beta Ray Bill (Marvel)
    Will McPhail, In: A Graphic Novel (Mariner Books)
    Barry Windsor-Smith, Monsters (Fantagraphics)
    Last edited by Gaius; 05-18-2022 at 10:39 AM.

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