PKJ Action Comics Discussion and Spoilers

[Last Son of Krypton]

Speaking of sales, Comichron just released the estimated sales of August 2021: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-08.html

Action Comics #1034 sold near 29,000

Other Superman related book:

Son of Kal-El #2 40,000

Superman and the Authority #2 35,000

Superman '78 #1 33,000

Batman Superman 2021 Annual #1 32,000

Batman Superman #21 29,000

Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow #3 28,000

Superman Vs Lobo #1 25,000

Superman Red & Blue #6 21,000

Challenge of the Super Sons #5 16,000

[Lvenger]

Yeah the decline is as I expected, or rather feared. We may be at the point where Superman comics struggle to break 30K every month. A disappointing position for the founding father of the superhero genre.

[oddish1]

It's way more simple - this is the maximum Superman is currently capable of selling, except for Morrison and Taylor, who have a slightly different situation. Tomasi and Jurgens' sales were not much higher by the end, and everyone knows what a disappointment Bendis was in this regard. The situation can only change if someone like Hickman comes to the book.
Replacing PKJ will not solve anything for them, moreover, it can play a cruel joke, because his run, unlike Bendis, is perceived positively.

No, Jurgens and Tomasi's sales at the end were quite a bit stronger than the current books. Jurgens' last Action Comics issue was #999 (With 1000 being a celebration issues and Bendis properly taking over at 1001), and Comichron has its sales at 51,534. https://comichron.com/monthlycomicss...8/2018-03.html

It ended higher than Detective Comics of the same month.

Tomasi-Gleason's Superman run ended at issue #45 with sales estimated to be 41,927. https://comichron.com/monthlycomicss...8/2018-04.html

For comparison's sake, the current Superman run's issue #2 is estimated at 40,000 https://comichron.com/monthlycomicss...1/2021-08.html

These aren't perfect comparisons because the books now are being sold a dollar or two more, so the revenue is a bit different but in terms of units sold, Action Comics and Superman are doing much worse than when Tomasi-Gleason and Jurgens ended their runs. Now, I don't think that this is necessarily to do with the unpopularity of the current Superman status quo, although that doesn't help. I think that outside of Batman and a few exceptions, most of DC's books look to be doing very poorly. It's a line wide issue that needs to be sorted out. For that reason, I do agree with you that cancelling and restarting the run right now probably won't do much for the sale's prospects. They should probably just let the Superman books do their thing for now until the next line wide refresh in the next year or two.

[Vordan]

I can see a relaunch of AC after the Warworld saga is over. Or DC could treat AC #1051 as a new starting point (like Bendis' AC 1001)

That’s what I’m hoping for anyway. There’s definitely a linewide relaunch coming soon either way, sales are just too soft across the board for it not to happen.

[Vordan]

Went through the Comichron list, Jesus DC and Marvel are doing awful. DC is totally reliant on Batman and Marvel needs X-Men and Spider-Man. There’s a huge gap where you’ve got the top franchises up in the 100k-90k, then a scant handful of titles in the mid-range of 60k-40k, and then it just drops down hard. Not really a PKJ or even a Superman issue, there’s just no real enthusiasm for the market currently. Infinite Frontier in particular looks to be selling poorly but I guess DC is fine with those sales since they aren’t cancelling Williamson’s plans? My guess is that as long as PKJ can keep Action from falling below 20k he’s safe, the sales threshold for cancellation has clearly been lowered. But he won’t get to hold on to Mendonca for long I suspect.

And frankly I don’t believe that even if those who want to go back to Rebirth got their wish that sales would improve. Wally West is back as the Flash yet sales are declining lower and lower despite Adams being a good writer who is doing a good job rebuilding Wally’s world. Nostalgia clearly isn’t working there. DC needs a big event that gets people excited to check out their books much as I hate to say it.

[Yoda]

These are estimated made up by Comichron. Is there any indication that they are actually representative of actual sales? DC is distributing it's own books now, so there's no real way for anyone to a know the numbers. Digital is like 50% of the market now too or something.

Beyond that point, I just don't think there's any real connection between a books "success" for DC and the monthly floppy sales anymore. The pandemic and the last two years of shake up in distribution have broken that chain I think.

[SJNeal]

It's truly baffling/depressing to see such low numbers on Action Comics; and I suspect Son of Kal-El will be down there too within the next issue or so.

And what's it say that Batman '89 is doing so much better than Superman '78? They're both nostalgia trips that speak to the same type of reader, but I'd argue that '78 was the better book (based on first issues). Is this just more testimony to the rabid nature of Bat-fans?

[Vordan]

It's truly baffling/depressing to see such low numbers on Action Comics; and I suspect Son of Kal-El will be down there too within the next issue or so.

And what's it say that Batman '89 is doing so much better than Superman '78? They're both nostalgia trips that speak to the same type of reader, but I'd argue that '78 was the better book (based on first issues). Is this just more testimony to the rabid nature of Bat-fans?

In part but also Keaton is going to be in a movie. Which kind of brings up another point: Superman’s decline in terms of sales is not something the comics can reverse or fix at this point. It’s entirely in the hands of outside media. There needs to be a string of successful Superman projects that reinvigorate interest in the character. S&L was a good first step. Hopefully MAWS will be another one.

We need a video game where he’s not evil, a movie that does a good job with him (zero faith in Abrams and Coates pulling that off at this point), some big project that will get people excited about him again. That’s why if I was DC, I was just let PKJ write. Stories like his Warworld Saga are just begging to be adapted, they’re big and ambitious and seem poised to go in new directions with Superman. I could totally see this run being the basis for a Superman game where he has to fight through Warworld for example.

[SJNeal]

In part but also Keaton is going to be in a movie. Which kind of brings up another point: Superman’s decline in terms of sales is not something the comics can reverse or fix at this point. It’s entirely in the hands of outside media. There needs to be a string of successful Superman projects that reinvigorate interest in the character. S&L was a good first step. Hopefully MAWS will be another one.

We need a video game where he’s not evil, a movie that does a good job with him (zero faith in Abrams and Coates pulling that off at this point), some big project that will get people excited about him again. That’s why if I was DC, I was just let PKJ write. Stories like his Warworld Saga are just begging to be adapted, they’re big and ambitious and seem poised to go in new directions with Superman. I could totally see this run being the basis for a Superman game where he has to fight through Warworld for example.

Interesting. So historically we've only seen short, temporary bumps in sales numbers for comics when a particular film is released - the MCU being the obvious poster child for this syndrome. However Batman's sales have been disproportionately higher than Superman's for 20+ years now, even when his comics aren't as good. You're crediting this to his string of successful video games/films/cartoons drawing in (and keeping) readers...?

Please don't think I'm being contrarian, but we just haven't seen the same effect on characters like Iron Man and Thor, whose comics still sell way less than they should, given their multiple massively popular films.

Which brings me back to my (sorta) joke about rabid Bat-fans; I know several who *only* buy/read Bat-books exclusively. They aren't comics fans, per se, but rather Batman fans. Which leads me to believe he's just an outlier and other characters that experience this phenomenon are few to none. *shrug*

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I don't think there are any accurate sales numbers for DC Comics at the moment. There are so many revenue streams now in addition to the monthly issues being sold in comics shops. A good chunk of people are reading digitally through Comixology or simply waiting until the issues are available on DC Infinite. Plus, there's a whole other market who only buy collected editions.

The readers who head to their local comics shops every Wednesday to get the latest issue is becoming less and less the main market for what DC is selling.

[Vordan]

Interesting. So historically we've only seen short, temporary bumps in sales numbers for comics when a particular film is released - the MCU being the obvious poster child for this syndrome. However Batman's sales have been disproportionately higher than Superman's for 20+ years now, even when his comics aren't as good. You're crediting this to his string of successful video games/films/cartoons drawing in (and keeping) readers...?

Please don't think I'm being contrarian, but we just haven't seen the same effect on characters like Iron Man and Thor, whose comics still sell way less than they should, given their multiple massively popular films.

Which brings me back to my (sorta) joke about rabid Bat-fans; I know several who *only* buy/read Bat-books exclusively. They aren't comics fans, per se, but rather Batman fans. Which leads me to believe he's just an outlier and other characters that experience this phenomenon are few to none. *shrug*

Think it’s a mix of both what you’re saying and what I’m saying. Batman has hardcore fans, more than anyone else, who buy his stuff in big quantities. But part of the reason why he has those fans is that there’s never NOT been some kind of Batman media project that was well received since the Keaton Batman films. Even in the 90s he still had BTAS. And holy hell, the 2000s are honestly insane in terms of how much great Batman content there was. That was a decade where Batman had some great product in every medium except TV (only because he didn’t have a show). People are constantly exposed to Batman and his Mythos, new fans are constantly coming in to buy his stuff. Plus there’s a very good chance that those comics will get adapted, so people want to be in on Ground Zero before the movies adapt Punchline or whatever. Look at the turnaround on Court of Owls getting adapted!

In contrast the last two decades have been awful for Superman. There were some good stuff here and there but overall it’s just been a goddamn mess. It doesn’t help that there hasn’t been any major Superman projects outside of Snyder’s crap movies since Smallville ended, with S&L being the first to break that trend. 30 years since the last Superman cartoon! That’s freaking insane. How are kids going to see that the memes about Superman aren’t true when DC is making no effort to reach them and instead puts all their effort into Batman product? It’s a vicious cycle of DC only makes Batman stuff because Batman stuff sells because DC only makes Batman stuff so there’s no “in” for anything else. I don’t even care if MAWS for example isn’t something *I* enjoy as long as the kids like it. Thank God it isn’t Timm or one of his cronies heading up MAWS because every time those twats try to adapt a Superman story, they usually butcher it because they don’t get his appeal at all. The best Superman movies usually had an actual Superman writer involved like Kelly or Tomasi.

When it comes to Thor and Iron Man, Thor’s first two movies sucked, with the third making him a comedic character which is very much not comics Thor. Iron Man is just cursed honestly. They need to put Hickman on him, it’s pathetic how poorly they’ve done with him. He’s got so many terrible comics and his Mythos just aren’t at the level you’d expect.

[manwhohaseverything]

Speaking of sales, Comichron just released the estimated sales of August 2021: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...1/2021-08.html

Action Comics #1034 sold near 29,000

Other Superman related book:

Son of Kal-El #2 40,000

Superman and the Authority #2 35,000

Superman '78 #1 33,000

Batman Superman 2021 Annual #1 32,000

Batman Superman #21 29,000

Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow #3 28,000

Superman Vs Lobo #1 25,000

Superman Red & Blue #6 21,000

Challenge of the Super Sons #5 16,000

The only thing i am really sad about is superman and authority sales..
Supersons #5 sold 16000.wow..That should be trimph right there since there is no mainline support or hype

[SJNeal]

Think it’s a mix of both what you’re saying and what I’m saying. Batman has hardcore fans, more than anyone else, who buy his stuff in big quantities. But part of the reason why he has those fans is that there’s never NOT been some kind of Batman media project that was well received since the Keaton Batman films. Even in the 90s he still had BTAS. And holy hell, the 2000s are honestly insane in terms of how much great Batman content there was. That was a decade where Batman had some great product in every medium except TV (only because he didn’t have a show). People are constantly exposed to Batman and his Mythos, new fans are constantly coming in to buy his stuff. Plus there’s a very good chance that those comics will get adapted, so people want to be in on Ground Zero before the movies adapt Punchline or whatever. Look at the turnaround on Court of Owls getting adapted!

In contrast the last two decades have been awful for Superman. There were some good stuff here and there but overall it’s just been a goddamn mess. It doesn’t help that there hasn’t been any major Superman projects outside of Snyder’s crap movies since Smallville ended, with S&L being the first to break that trend. 30 years since the last Superman cartoon! That’s freaking insane. How are kids going to see that the memes about Superman aren’t true when DC is making no effort to reach them and instead puts all their effort into Batman product? It’s a vicious cycle of DC only makes Batman stuff because Batman stuff sells because DC only makes Batman stuff so there’s no “in” for anything else. I don’t even care if MAWS for example isn’t something *I* enjoy as long as the kids like it. Thank God it isn’t Timm or one of his cronies heading up MAWS because every time those twats try to adapt a Superman story, they usually butcher it because they don’t get his appeal at all. The best Superman movies usually had an actual Superman writer involved like Kelly or Tomasi.

Can't argue any of these points, tbh...

When it comes to Thor and Iron Man, Thor’s first two movies sucked, with the third making him a comedic character which is very much not comics Thor. Iron Man is just cursed honestly. They need to put Hickman on him, it’s pathetic how poorly they’ve done with him. He’s got so many terrible comics and his Mythos just aren’t at the level you’d expect.

That's funny; I loved the first two Thor movies! I thought they were fairly faithful adaptations, and if anything was gonna drum up interest in his book, that was it. C'est la vie..

However I thought Ragnarok was complete sh!t.

[manwhohaseverything]

Batman has been a consistent performer for so long.The ip has for the most part had great success in many platforms and through out different eras.Iron man has only just arrived for masses.The casuals haven't become hardcore yet inorder for them to even try comics.

[Morgoth]

These are estimated made up by Comichron. Is there any indication that they are actually representative of actual sales? DC is distributing it's own books now, so there's no real way for anyone to a know the numbers. Digital is like 50% of the market now too or something.

It's more like approximate numbers, it is impossible to know for sure now, given that there are also digital sales.

Supersons #5 sold 16000.wow..That should be trimph right there since there is no mainline support or hype

It was digital only series originally, which already ended.