PKJ Action Comics Discussion and Spoilers

[NaVi]

for superman to recover in sales he needs.
1: years of good comics.
2: a saga of movies that turn it into a fashion.
3: a video game saga.
Batman has had 30 years of good movies, series, video games and comics (not the best but enough to contribute) his situation is very different from that of the heroes of Marvel.
I don't know if I am the only one but I think that in recent years , although there are still many batman ultras, there are more and more who despise him, I think the batman situation is the same as that of superman in the past (the king they got tired of and kicked out), if batman stops sell, who would take his place.

[HsssH]

Thor is selling well in 50-70k range. Iron Man is more interesting case since Marvel has pushed him hard, but it never really translates into strong comic book sales. If we consider Batman as unique case then I think we might consider Iron Man unique as well. Say what you want, but Catwoman shouldn't be outselling Iron Man. Mind you, she is selling better than Action as well, but we all kinda agree that these Action sales ain't good.

Anyway, whats the reasoning for Action not doing that hot? I agree with this being some side effect of Bendis. I'm reading spoilers and liking most of what I see from PKJ, but I'm trade waiting solely due to it continuing with all the changes that Bendis did. I'm sure that I'm not unique case here.

But you know what else bugs me a bit now? I don't know who is leading Superman's franchise. With Batman you know that main Batman book is setting the status quo and if something major is going down then it is going to happen in the pages of Batman. You know that Tynion, now Williamson, are setting the pace. With X-Men we also had Hickman being the lead writer.

Taylor's and PJK's stuff kinda works together, but who came up with this status quo? Who is setting things up? Can someone in some interview explain to us whats the big picture is? What are they trying to achieve with these stories? We also have Authority that is supposed to fit into Action, but so far it doesn't look like it is going to be an easy fitting. I guess at some point King's Supergirl should also somehow influence other books, but how and when? Who knows, maybe never.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Thor is selling well in 50-70k range. Iron Man is more interesting case since Marvel has pushed him hard, but it never really translates into strong comic book sales. If we consider Batman as unique case then I think we might consider Iron Man unique as well. Say what you want, but Catwoman shouldn't be outselling Iron Man. Mind you, she is selling better than Action as well, but we all kinda agree that these Action sales ain't good.

Anyway, whats the reasoning for Action not doing that hot? I agree with this being some side effect of Bendis. I'm reading spoilers and liking most of what I see from PKJ, but I'm trade waiting solely due to it continuing with all the changes that Bendis did. I'm sure that I'm not unique case here.

But you know what else bugs me a bit now? I don't know who is leading Superman's franchise. With Batman you know that main Batman book is setting the status quo and if something major is going down then it is going to happen in the pages of Batman. You know that Tynion, now Williamson, are setting the pace. With X-Men we also had Hickman being the lead writer.

Taylor's and PJK's stuff kinda works together, but who came up with this status quo? Who is setting things up? Can someone in some interview explain to us whats the big picture is? What are they trying to achieve with these stories? We also have Authority that is supposed to fit into Action, but so far it doesn't look like it is going to be an easy fitting. I guess at some point King's Supergirl should also somehow influence other books, but how and when? Who knows, maybe never.

I think Taylor and PKJ are steering the ship together, along with editorial of course. Taylor is in charge of Jon and PKJ is in charge of Clark.

[RobinGA]

I disagree with the notion that Batman has had 30 years of good movies.
Most of them were pretty good.
But the Schumacher films were dreadful. I wasn't a big fan of the Dark Knight Rises either.
It had its moments, but there was a lot of meh for me.

Is a good Superman video game really going to save Superman? I'm dubious.
I suppose we should wait to see how the new direction works (or doesn't) for Superman.
People in the broader public want to be excited about a Superman movie, because when one
comes out the excitement level is off the charts. Is it any good? Should I go watch?
Then when people discover it is well ... not great, there is a considerable deflation.

But reading these various threads you sometimes get the idea that Superman is dying.
It isn't that bad. Snyder is gone from making movies for DC, (Thank You Lord Jesus), Gunn
hasn't been allowed to make a Superman film, the ridiculous Injustice vehicle is coming out
so we won't have to hear anymore about how exciting it is going to be.

Superman will survive, he just will. Perhaps these new approaches will breathe new life, but
then we still have that template from the Golden and Silver age. Who knows? Someone may decide
to revive that one with a modern spin.

[Vordan]

I think Taylor and PKJ are steering the ship together, along with editorial of course. Taylor is in charge of Jon and PKJ is in charge of Clark.

Yeah they’re both on equal footing. There’s no “head” like how Tynion/Willamson are in charge of the Batline. Do wonder if it was a mistake cancelling Superman and only leaving Clark Action, that probably cost them some sales. Weird that Action tends to be used as the “main” book with Superman as the side book, that’s the reverse of how Batman does it and the reverse of what people expect I think.

I disagree with the notion that Batman has had 30 years of good movies.
Most of them were pretty good.
But the Schumacher films were dreadful. I wasn't a big fan of the Dark Knight Rises either.
It had its moments, but there was a lot of meh for me.

Is a good Superman video game really going to save Superman? I'm dubious.
I suppose we should wait to see how the new direction works (or doesn't) for Superman.
People in the broader public want to be excited about a Superman movie, because when one
comes out the excitement level is off the charts. Is it any good? Should I go watch?
Then when people discover it is well ... not great, there is a considerable deflation.

But reading these various threads you sometimes get the idea that Superman is dying.
It isn't that bad. Snyder is gone from making movies for DC, (Thank You Lord Jesus), Gunn
hasn't been allowed to make a Superman film, the ridiculous Injustice vehicle is coming out
so we won't have to hear anymore about how exciting it is going to be.

Superman will survive, he just will. Perhaps these new approaches will breathe new life, but
then we still have that template from the Golden and Silver age. Who knows? Someone may decide
to revive that one with a modern spin.

Only the 90s Batfilms can be considered failures though. Point is that even when the films flopped, there was other Batman stuff that was good and was reaching a wider audience than the comics. Superman didn’t have that outside of Smallville during the last two decades. Hell DC made no attempt to reach kids with him given he had no cartoon while Batman had several. I’m feeling petty so I blame Timm and his stooges in the animation department for that, I’m sure they weren’t enthusiastic or interested in anything except Batman.

Will any one thing reverse Superman’s decline? No. It will take multiple successes over the years to build the brand back up. It will take DC putting an end to the endless attempts to “sort out continuity” and just tell stories that can be adapted. It will take the stories they tell in the comics being good. It will take the end of them dumping on him to prop up Batman (not happening any time soon). It’s not impossible just unlikely we will see him restored to his former status. Frankly I would just be happy to get more content I enjoyed, there was very little of that during the 2010s, I hope the 2020s are better.

[NaVi]

Movies, series, video games are not going to save Superman immediately, it will over time, many fans of the character are because as children they saw a series or a Superman movie.
Movies, series, video games are like a quarry from which fans are drawn.
If Superman is going to survive it does not depend on the fans he has at the moment, because we are not eternal, one day we will not be, Superman can only survive with new fans and these are achieved outside of comics, good comics will make them stay.

[RobinGA]

I guess that more information needs to be provided as to how people became Superman fans.

I read the comics. Other media platforms existed for Superman, but for me it was enjoying the
art, reading the words.

[SiegePerilous02]

I guess that more information needs to be provided as to how people became Superman fans.

I read the comics. Other media platforms existed for Superman, but for me it was enjoying the
art, reading the words.

I think for most of us reading the comics, the passion ignited because we saw the characters elsewhere first. In my case and probably for many others, Batman and Spider-Man became things I wanted to read because of the cartoons from the 90s and luckily my dad had a ton of old Silver Age Spider-Man comics (all in rough shape and gone at this point lol, no money for us) that I could read. I was definitely more aware of Superman through other media first.

So they definitely need to get their **** together more with him in other media, and of course everyone else at DC who isn't Batman related needs even more work than that.

[Vordan]

From Action Comics #1036, the first issue of the Superman event THE WARWORLD SAGA.

We're making it a point to include endless pieces of lore and culture throughout Warworld during this run. If you look closely, on this page you'll see two alien corpses preserved in the (1/ )
semi-translucent stone below Superman and the Authority. These were brother-and-sister rulers of their world, who led the last defense against the invasion of the current Mongul's grandfather. When that Mongul ultimately prevailed, he had these two buried alive and (2/ )
preserved in this monument to Mongul's victory over their race.

All the survivors of that invasion were enslaved on Warworld, and subsequently died in the years since due to their incompatibility with Warworld's atmosphere and living conditions. Although Superman wouldn't (3/ )
have any way of knowing, the bodies trapped in this stone are the last specimens of their species in existence, anywhere in the universe. (4/4)

https://twitter.com/phillipkjohnson/...098297347?s=21

I guess that more information needs to be provided as to how people became Superman fans.

I read the comics. Other media platforms existed for Superman, but for me it was enjoying the
art, reading the words.

You’re a minority now. Most people become fans of the characters through cartoons, movies, or games. I’m Gen Z, my first exposure to Superman was the DCAU. Hell it’s not like this is a new thing, tons of people became fans of Superman because of the radio serials, the Reeves TV show, or the Donner films, yet never read a single comic.

[The Frog Bros]

Think it’s a mix of both what you’re saying and what I’m saying. Batman has hardcore fans, more than anyone else, who buy his stuff in big quantities. But part of the reason why he has those fans is that there’s never NOT been some kind of Batman media project that was well received since the Keaton Batman films. Even in the 90s he still had BTAS. And holy hell, the 2000s are honestly insane in terms of how much great Batman content there was. That was a decade where Batman had some great product in every medium except TV (only because he didn’t have a show). People are constantly exposed to Batman and his Mythos, new fans are constantly coming in to buy his stuff. Plus there’s a very good chance that those comics will get adapted, so people want to be in on Ground Zero before the movies adapt Punchline or whatever. Look at the turnaround on Court of Owls getting adapted!

In contrast the last two decades have been awful for Superman. There were some good stuff here and there but overall it’s just been a goddamn mess. It doesn’t help that there hasn’t been any major Superman projects outside of Snyder’s crap movies since Smallville ended, with S&L being the first to break that trend. 30 years since the last Superman cartoon! That’s freaking insane. How are kids going to see that the memes about Superman aren’t true when DC is making no effort to reach them and instead puts all their effort into Batman product? It’s a vicious cycle of DC only makes Batman stuff because Batman stuff sells because DC only makes Batman stuff so there’s no “in” for anything else. I don’t even care if MAWS for example isn’t something *I* enjoy as long as the kids like it. Thank God it isn’t Timm or one of his cronies heading up MAWS because every time those twats try to adapt a Superman story, they usually butcher it because they don’t get his appeal at all. The best Superman movies usually had an actual Superman writer involved like Kelly or Tomasi.

When it comes to Thor and Iron Man, Thor’s first two movies sucked, with the third making him a comedic character which is very much not comics Thor. Iron Man is just cursed honestly. They need to put Hickman on him, it’s pathetic how poorly they’ve done with him. He’s got so many terrible comics and his Mythos just aren’t at the level you’d expect.

To wit, my nephew is 13 years old and does not like Superman. He told me it’s because he doesn’t even really seem like a good guy. Of course, everyone is completely entitled to their own opinion but his got me thinking. The only things he really knows is the Snyderverse and he doesn’t really read comics so his opinion is obviously affected by the content. So it becomes a duty (chore?) to try and explain that the character is of course much more than just the Snyder movies. Thankfully my niece (11) loves comics and kinda digs Superman.

[RobinGA]

All your nephew knows is the Snyder version of Superman?

Jesus.

Yes, talk about mission work.

But it is always helpful to be reminded of where we are.

One can only imagine where we will be if the only thing people will know of
Superman will be the Injustice movie.

[kalai]

https://twitter.com/phillipkjohnson/...098297347?s=21



You’re a minority now. Most people become fans of the characters through cartoons, movies, or games. I’m Gen Z, my first exposure to Superman was the DCAU. Hell it’s not like this is a new thing, tons of people became fans of Superman because of the radio serials, the Reeves TV show, or the Donner films, yet never read a single comic.

The art looks great.

[HsssH]

I think Taylor and PKJ are steering the ship together, along with editorial of course. Taylor is in charge of Jon and PKJ is in charge of Clark.

Yeah they’re both on equal footing. There’s no “head” like how Tynion/Willamson are in charge of the Batline.

Guys, I'm following Superman news, I'm well aware that Taylor and PKJ are main writers for Jon and Clark. I'm saying that maybe thats one of the problems.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think ,war world saga is the lead...Jon story is just set up and building,For now

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Guys, I'm following Superman news, I'm well aware that Taylor and PKJ are main writers for Jon and Clark. I'm saying that maybe thats one of the problems.

I've got no problem with two guys steering the ship. When it was just Bendis, that didn't exactly work out great, because once Bendis's writing started to slip, the whole line got worse.

Tomasi & Jurgens were all over the place in terms of quality, but I think that had more to do with them getting burnt out by the twice-monthly grind and all the editorial hoops they had to jump through.