PKJ Action Comics Discussion and Spoilers

[Robanker]

It doesn’t just “suck” it’s sexist. You clearly know it is. So speak up and say something. They get away with stuff like this because they drive all the women away out of sheer exhaustion over the sexism and the men don’t speak up enough when they act this way.

I’m not trying to be critical here—you are correct. But they get away with treating Lois like this because the male fans, as a collective whole, let them be this sexist. If you guys didn’t stand for it, they wouldn’t do it.

If men took as much of a stand over Lois getting treated like crap as they did over a suit clasp they didn’t like, she wouldn’t consistently get treated like crap and we might actually have diversity in that office. They get away with it because the male fandom lets them do it.

If the men who buy the comics demanded better they would get it. They don’t. They condone the Sexism. So here we are.

I'd like to preface this post by saying in my mind you're the voice on these forums for Lois and someone I've come to respect a lot when you weigh in on how Lois is being used in the DC Universe. Furthermore, I agree with you with one major caveat.

They don't hand out a comment card that asks "why didn't you buy Superman this month" for us to say "because you marginalized Lois Lane. She's the best reporter in your universe, his wife, the mother of his child, arguably the first lady of comic books and she deserves a higher profile because of it. She also deserves her own book that isn't a goddamn pet project for Rucka to write about The Question. Lois Lane should be every young woman and journalist's favorite character and yet she's just a prop in recent media to turn Clark into a villain and everyone involved in that should be ashamed." Because let me tell you, despite how flippant I can be on these forums, I am livid with how her mini developed and overall how underutilized Lois Lane is.

They'll just think people don't care about Superman. Or maybe cosmic Superman. Perhaps Jon.

You've seen my posts. Everyone who has knows Lois is my favorite character after Clark and I hold their relationship very dear. I complain all the time when she's marginalized. If I didn't have House of El ordered (thus my shop committed to it for me), I wouldn't even buy it based on the idea that she's just "Wife #1, maybe the favorite, in a line of several." But at this point the book has been sold and I'd just be telling my shop I'm an asshole instead of them being able to tell DC "our big Superman guy doesn't like the direction of this." I'll express my concerns when I see them next, and if I'm lucky that will be relayed to DC, but that won't help much.

I asked PKJ on Twitter when the first news came out if he had any plans for Lois other than to be relegated to "Jon's mom" and didn't get a comment. As fans, without becoming toxic and brigading all discussion as Lois's Outraged Legion (I know, I know. I couldn't help myself because I'm a goofball at heart), that's about all we can do. Look at Jon's fans. They've boycotted Bendis and trash him on every turn but Jon's still aged up because the problem lies with someone who is ultimately a supporting cast member, not the hero. And that sucks for Jon fans. I know because I am one. Just as I'm a Lois fan. Until the book fully transitions to Jon's, the big message AT&T/DC will see with reducing sales to Superman is Superman doesn't sell. You're a fan and I know you know this stuff, but sometimes it can be easy to forget how the suits are parsing data. Maybe I'm just making an ass of myself for reiterating it all, and if so I deeply apologize.

But she is a supporting character, arguably the most important... But in cosmic stories, she's rightfully going to be downplayed because she just cannot go there outside of my silly idea for having her and Clark take a second honeymoon and breaking stories across the galaxy for fun. What's important is the context for how it happens, right? Does Clark just leave (BAD) or is he vaunted across the stars trying to get home (Good!)? The problem, of course, lies in her being on Earth with Jon who is Superman and yet, again, seemingly not involved. She's his mother so especially with Clark missing she should be extremely important. This is where I'm agreeing with you in sexism, perhaps not on PKJ's part but editorial for not pushing a larger role for her. I don't know PKJ and by all accounts he seems like a decent man, but DC editorial has a history and the bloodbath seems to not have changed it much.

And yet as a fan, there's no real correct answer to get Lois pushed because the best one was botched-- her series and GN just did not really sell. Everything else will be read as Superman's failure, not really anything to do with Lois Lane. Hell, I suggested giving Jon purple eyes and making him pick up a penchant for freshly squeezed orange juice (and coffee later in life) to give him his youthful energy so he can at least superficially pick up something from his mother.

The comic reading fandom isn't strong enough to get AT&T to levy interest. Arguably, Superman & Lois is probably the best place to do so. They're paying way more attention there and her name's in the title. That audience may have more power in getting Lois noticed again than comic fans ever will because her last series didn't sell much at all. Jimmy Olsen (admittedly the better book and all-around wonderful) at least had stellar reception and look who is announced to get the first backup. I don't know if it's just sexism (which is definitely a part of it) but I do think that's thanks in no small part to Rucka not getting edited strongly enough for them to remind him "this is not Rene's book. She leaves this issue. Focus on Lois" and the book got mired too much in everything but telling a Lois Lane story. I was excited when they announced him. He even wrote some stellar moments in that series... but after it, I just don't want him in charge of a Lois Lane project ever again. He's proved his comments on always being up to write Diana, Kate or Rene mean he'll sideline the title character to make it about Diana, Kate or Rene.

Its sales weren't good and it became instantly forgettable. All the messages going to the bean counters upstairs are that Lois doesn't sell or generate interest, so they're going to downplay her. We can be loud, but nothing's louder than a dollar with these people. Superman & Lois succeeding will show some interest, especially if Lois gets a lot of discussion/praise, but even so Clark and their kids will share some of that.

The biggest obstacles Lois faces unfortunately get buried under the larger issue: the Superman line struggles as a whole because DC doesn't get it. A lot of fans here hold Rebirth up to some sacred moment in time and yet it sidelined Lois and treated Clark like a co-lead to his son in a pretty uneven run (that I liked, mind you). I know Ascended likes to mention that Clark was OOC during that era because he normally isn't great with family and where I part with him is I liked to think he finally got it together with his own son (perhaps as a wakeup call), but it's also a fair criticism to say that Clark wasn't even himself in that run. Despite it all, the book wasn't killing it in sales.

Lois needs a better position but so do the books as a whole. The only real benefit I can see to any of this shakeup for her, and this is the thinnest silver lining I can muster, is that Lois and Clark will be able to get away from the burden of SUPERMAN for DC and just get to tell their own stories with less expectations because he's no longer the focus of the IP. I hate that. I absolutely hate it, but right now things are really bleak for Lois Lane and we haven't been giving a lot of info that tells me Clark's getting positioned to be the best Superman he can be, but to be the best bench warmer he can be for his son. The whole line is in a really big state of flux and that means the problems with Lois just aren't going to be addressed, and since that's been the case for 20+ years (the line being in flux) Lois just eternally gets put on the back burner. Much like everything in the Super books.

Berganza is gone, as is most the old blood, so I really hope this changes. I hope we see some stability for Supergirl. I hope Power Girl stops being treated like the redheaded stepchild of the Super family. I hope Lana is more than just diet Lois who sometimes tries to get Clark back. I hope they figure out how to reposition the women in these books to getting to be more prominent and successful and a big part of that is getting women working on these books. A firm, female editorial voice is a great idea that needs to happen. More women absolutely need to be involved. There's just no acceptable alternative to that fact.

Editorial is the problem. Outside of Jon, DC's biggest rising stars are Jessica Cruz, Jo Mullein and Naomi from Rebirth-onward. All POC women, two of which are LGBTQ+. They still push Harley excessively. Diana is getting a big editorial push even if her sales remain stagnant. The fans are due a fair chunk of blame, but I'd argue the Superman office's editorial department are the biggest reason she's hamstrung. Hell, they had Stepan Sejic admitting he wanted to so a Superman and Lois romance book but never got the opportunity before he dipped. Quite a few writers have noted they want to tackle Lois, or how much they love her. I saw more buzz about Lois than I did Jimmy before that book dropped. Sexism is definitely involved, but it's strongest at the middle stage and unfortunately it's hard to get the important people upstairs to notice. I don't think boycotting the Super books until Lois gets a prominent role will really do much other than relegate the Super books to their "assigned book ghetto" they've fallen into so many times before.

[rpmaluki]

@Robanker - I completely agree with all you have said.

[Myskin]

It's funny seeing people bring up KSD as a potential Superman writer or that a female writer wouldn't sideline Lois. KSD heavily sidelined and even put Mera in a coma in her 2 year run on Aquaman. So sorry if I can't tell if some of you actually care about woman having a bigger presence in comics or just angry because it's Lois.

Well, check some of the older threads on this forum about the recent Superwoman series in which *gasp* Lana Lang becomes Superwoman instead of Lois and you'll have your answer, my friend.

Besides that, the problems of what isn't working with Superman these days don't even start with Lois. It's not that Lois Lane didn't have her own series up to a couple of months ago, by the way. There are, like, hundreds of things which should be fixed.

[rpmaluki]

Well, check some of the older threads on this forum about the recent Superwoman series in which *gasp* Lana Lang becomes Superwoman instead of Lois and you'll have your answer, my friend.

Besides that, the problems of what isn't working with Superman these days don't even start with Lois. It's not that Lois Lane didn't have her own series up to a couple of months ago, by the way. There are, like, hundreds of things which should be fixed.

The problem that many had here was that marketing around Lois as Superwoman and three killing her off after the first issue.

[manwhohaseverything]

Lois needs a better position but so do the books as a whole. The only real benefit I can see to any of this shakeup for her, and this is the thinnest silver lining I can muster, is that Lois and Clark will be able to get away from the burden of SUPERMAN for DC and just get to tell their own stories with less expectations because he's no longer the focus of the IP. I hate that.

Except clark kent has been literally killing Superman for decades.That focus,i mean. What clark kent or kal el does should be secondary,I care less about that.Superman matters not lois lane,not clark kent or kal el.That identity means something.It doesn't even have a definition now.It's just an act of saving people,doing jesus christ poses and long drawn speeches about hope .That is insanely more problematic.Titular identity and powers presentation being treated like an after thought.

[GSman]

The problem that many had here was that marketing around Lois as Superwoman and three killing her off after the first issue.

Fans should have expected that tho. With the introduction of Superdad and Lois and Jon in the DCU, New 52 Lois' days where numbered. Heck all the speculation going on at the time in this very forum was that New 52 Lois and Clark were fakes anyway, so yeah, it was a marketing ploy, but not an unexpected blind side like you claim, they were just disposing of the expendable Lois.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I am continually disappointed by how poorly DC treats Lois Lane, who is easily their best female character next to Wonder Woman.

That said, I don't have much interest in seeing Lois in space. Her quickly realizing she was completely unsuited to being off on space adventures was probably one of the only things that I found credible about the whole Jor-El takes Jon & Lois off an a big tour of the galaxy storyline.

So, if PKJ really wants to do a big cosmic gladiator story with Superman, I don't really thing that's the best place for Lois. However, they should have given Lois an equally cool role to play on Earth while Clark is off in space, either in her own solo book that isn't Rucka felating himself or as the backup feature in the main books.

[The World]

If you want to save Lois you have to fix Superman himself. As long as Clark is doing his "I'm just a normal farmboy/regular guy/normal guy" shtick I don't think there is much of a future for Lois. Clark is the central pillar for the franchise, if he's weak then he'll let down everything around him.

[Myskin]

If you want to save Lois you have to fix Superman himself. As long as Clark is doing his "I'm just a normal farmboy/regular guy/normal guy" shtick I don't think there is much of a future for Lois. Clark is the central pillar for the franchise, if he's weak then he'll let down everything around him.

This.
The main character is Superman, not Lois - even if she is an integral part of the franchise. There are so many flaws with the character and his universe now that pretending to fix Superman by giving more exposure to Lois would be like fixing Batman by giving more exposure to Robin (well, IF Batman was broken - which he isn't). Flaws which became serious problems way, way before Philip Kennedy Johnson, or even Bendis, came on board.

[DragonPiece]

I am continually disappointed by how poorly DC treats Lois Lane, who is easily their best female character next to Wonder Woman.

That said, I don't have much interest in seeing Lois in space. Her quickly realizing she was completely unsuited to being off on space adventures was probably one of the only things that I found credible about the whole Jor-El takes Jon & Lois off an a big tour of the galaxy storyline.

So, if PKJ really wants to do a big cosmic gladiator story with Superman, I don't really thing that's the best place for Lois. However, they should have given Lois an equally cool role to play on Earth while Clark is off in space, either in her own solo book that isn't Rucka felating himself or as the backup feature in the main books.

That would be nice, I do think it's possible Lois shows up in the Superman book after PKJ leaves and acts a supporting charcter in Jon's story.

[rpmaluki]

A back up story for Lois on earth is exactly what I want while Clark is off in space doing whatever it is he'll be doing. I just don't want her disappearing altogether because Clark is not around. That would be dumb but with everything we've heard thus far, I'm afraid that may be exactly what we're getting and that is unfortunate. She is my favourite after Clark and I just cannot understand DC's inability to use a character as brilliant as Lois Lane.

[Sam]

To someone who has listened to the Word Balloon interview:

I was told Johnson acknowledged in the interview that some day someone is going to deage Jon. Is that accurate?

[Flash Gordon]

I did take that into account. That's the problem, this stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum, but Bendis treats it like it is.

The thing is, it does happen in a vacuum to a degree. A work needs to stand on its own, and Bendis is writing his own run at the end of the day. You may have read whatever came prior, but that's not really part of the story. The larger swaths of it, sure- but not every detail. Personally I thought his hand waving of the Mr. Oz crap was a smart move. He chose to go with the vastly more interesting aspect- a strange version of Jor-El is around and able to be interacted with.

Anyway, yeah I'm excited for PKJ's run. I'll most likely read it digitally down the road, but it's nice to see Superman get someone with a vision. What I read of Bendis' stuff was strong, I'm just not terribly interested in keeping up monthly with a lot of superhero stuff.

[km_sus]

As the plans for PKJ's run settle into my mind, the more I come to realize that I would've really preferred Yang to be on the main books instead.

To be honest, everything Yang is interested about writing in the Superman mythos is exactly what I'm interested in seeing out of Superman stories.

No criticism lobbed at PKJ, but I think he tends to operate on a grander and more epic scale - which is not exactly the direction I'm interested in Superman going at this point in time.

[Quinlan58]

To someone who has listened to the Word Balloon interview:

I was told Johnson acknowledged in the interview that some day someone is going to deage Jon. Is that accurate?

He said he fully expects someone to do it in the future because nothing in comics is permanent, but it won't be him. So basically, no plans as of now to de-age him, just PKJ guessing they will eventually.