PKJ Action Comics Discussion and Spoilers

[Prime]

Didn't something like this happens in the 90's to Marvel?

[Vordan]

Didn't something like this happens in the 90's to Marvel?

Marvel went bankrupt, that’s not what’s happening here. AT&T is gutting WB and DC is under WB. AT&T has so much debt that they’re trimming everything to the bone to cut costs.

[Prime]

Marvel went bankrupt, that’s not what’s happening here. AT&T is gutting WB and DC is under WB. AT&T has so much debt that they’re trimming everything to the bone to cut costs.

Sell it to Disney lol

[Last Son of Krypton]

If we're imagining a more slower burn to a 5G-like end, much like they're doing with Diana, maybe its prep to have Superman ascend to honorary New God-hood.

Kal ascends, Diana ascends, Bruce...I dunno, finally marries and has Helena with Selina (?), and thus the retiring. Play with that for a few years and then (unless its an unlikley unparalleled success), bring back the classics in full force almost like Doomsday Clock foretold.

I think the "endgame" for SM is ending up trapped in Warlord, kicking Mongul ass and then everything will go back to normal.

Doubt the whole 5G will last long. It feels another DC-You but with 2/3 years of build up.

Didn't something like this happens in the 90's to Marvel?

It happened to DC in the 70s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DC_Implosion

[Ascended]

Yikes, I wasn't aware of another round of layoffs. If that happens then yeah, its pretty impossible to imagine that there's any actual plan here longer term than just this year.

Possible but not necessarily. We went through a round or two of layoffs already and all the Future State stuff is still hitting fairly quickly after that. If DC knows another round is coming then they'd have just planned around it. It'd be one of those "Okay, in spring we're cutting down some more books and creators; who's gonna be cancelled/fired, what/who're we keeping, and where do we drive the narrative afterwards?"

DC would only get caught off guard if they don't know another round of cost cutting is coming, or if they don't get control over who they fire and which books they cancel. And I struggle to imagine the higher level executives at WB or AT&T giving a damn about minor details like that.

No, I think a much more realistic concern, and it's arguably not that realistic in the first place, is that AT&T licenses out their IP's to other publishers like IDW. They wouldn't have to worry about the cost of keeping the comics division open but would still get a small trickle of revenue from the third party publisher. No more rent on a DC office to pay, no more payroll for DC creators or editors, and that would help balance out splitting the revenue with a third party. The problem there is finding a third party publisher willing (and able) to pay the licensing fees, and figuring out how you handle royalties and all the other details.

I'm honestly not that worried about any of it. We've lived through cuts before and DC always expands again in a few years. Half of what they publish isn't worth reading in the first place anyway. And if AT&T did close the comics division, which I think is highly unlikely, all those creators are gonna go to other publishers, and aside from the company logo in the corner of the cover, not a whole hell of a lot will change for us.

Plus we have the digital and OGN stuff, which DC is supposedly pushing hard into, so any floppies we lose out on will be balanced by more stuff in those other formats. I'm not so intent on the direct market model that I'll refuse to get my comics in another format.

[Vordan]

Even in the worst case scenario we as Superman fans will probably still be getting Superman content in some form to read. Outside the Trinity though I’d be worried, if Aquaman can’t get a book despite it being his 80th, his billion dollar movie, having a cartoon and a sequel on the way, and being the only non-Batman DC character to appear in the phenomenon known as Fortnite (laugh if you want but trust me, that’s a great way to get exposure), then I don’t know if any of the non-Trinity characters are guaranteed one.

All that said Ascended apparently the people marked for layoff only found out recently, so the post Future State plans were not created with the layoffs factored in. I’m expecting Chris Conroy, the last BL editor, to be laid off which will probably shutter BL and maybe cancel King’s Superman project (and Waid’s too if he’s got one coming). I’m expecting the current “heads” of the editorial groups (Superman, JL, Batman) to be laid off as well. The line will probably compress even more.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

All that said Ascended apparently the people marked for layoff only found out recently, so the post Future State plans were not created with the layoffs factored in. I’m expecting Chris Conroy, the last BL editor, to be laid off which will probably shutter BL and maybe cancel King’s Superman project (and Waid’s too if he’s got one coming). I’m expecting the current “heads” of the editorial groups (Superman, JL, Batman) to be laid off as well. The line will probably compress even more.

They're definitely going to head further towards consolidation, but - and I almost hate to say this, given - regardless of Jim Lee's institutional power or lack thereof at this point, I don't think Black Label (or at least the existence of an explicitly 'prestige' line) is going away when Three Jokers broke 300k, and on the strength of continuity nonsense and creator starpower alone. The Walmart model probably is the near future, but they're not going to completely give up on standalone stuff you can chuck at bookstores. They're committing to that right now with Superman Red & Blue and were permitted across multiple levels to do so when someone involved definitely had at least a basic idea there were going to be more layoffs even if they didn't know exactly who given they've clearly been planned for awhile now - it's part of the basic shape of their future.

Also if they cancel Waid's third Superman thing where he'd already signed on the dotted line out from under him, I think he'd...die? He'd have some kind of aneurism and then vomit up his ghost to drag the entirety of Burbank screaming into Hell.

[Vordan]

They're definitely going to head further towards consolidation, but - and I almost hate to say this, given - regardless of Jim Lee's institutional power or lack thereof at this point, I don't think Black Label (or at least the existence of an explicitly 'prestige' line) is going away when Three Jokers broke 300k, and on the strength of continuity nonsense and creator starpower alone. The Walmart model probably is the near future, but they're not going to completely give up on standalone stuff you can chuck at bookstores. They're committing to that right now with Superman Red & Blue and were permitted across multiple levels to do so when someone involved definitely had at least a basic idea there were going to be more layoffs even if they didn't know exactly who given they've clearly been planned for awhile now - it's part of the basic shape of their future.

Also if they cancel Waid's third Superman thing where he'd already signed on the dotted line out from under him, I think he'd...die? He'd have some kind of aneurism and then vomit up his ghost to drag the entirety of Burbank screaming into Hell.

God I hope you’re right. Sorry I’ve just been hurt so much by DC’s treatment of Superman I’ve simply become accustomed to expecting the worst case scenario . Yeah Waid would definitely have a full blown breakdown if he came this close to doing another big Superman project again only to have it ripped away from him.

All that said, DC did let go of the woman who was in charge of their kids line, so even if BL manages to stick around I could still see Conroy getting let go which would be a damn shame. Losing Khouri was already a huge loss.

[Robanker]

Even in the worst case scenario we as Superman fans will probably still be getting Superman content in some form to read. Outside the Trinity though I’d be worried, if Aquaman can’t get a book despite it being his 80th, his billion dollar movie, having a cartoon and a sequel on the way, and being the only non-Batman DC character to appear in the phenomenon known as Fortnite (laugh if you want but trust me, that’s a great way to get exposure), then I don’t know if any of the non-Trinity characters are guaranteed one.

All that said Ascended apparently the people marked for layoff only found out recently, so the post Future State plans were not created with the layoffs factored in. I’m expecting Chris Conroy, the last BL editor, to be laid off which will probably shutter BL and maybe cancel King’s Superman project (and Waid’s too if he’s got one coming). I’m expecting the current “heads” of the editorial groups (Superman, JL, Batman) to be laid off as well. The line will probably compress even more.

Just to give you some positive news in these dark times, it's been said on some good authority that DC is doing something for Aquaman's 80th... So while things are looking bad, perhaps not as awful as you think.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

God I hope you’re right. Sorry I’ve just been hurt so much by DC’s treatment of Superman I’ve simply become accustomed to expecting the worst case scenario . Yeah Waid would definitely have a full blown breakdown if he came this close to doing another big Superman project again only to have it ripped away from him.

All that said, DC did let go of the woman who was in charge of their kids line, so even if BL manages to stick around I could still see Conroy getting let go which would be a damn shame. Losing Khouri was already a huge loss.

Yeah bad signs most definitely still abound, but even the gloomiest alleged reports still include OGNs still being in the mix so there'll continue to be some kind of non-'mainline' output.

[Vordan]

Jeff Lemire just confirmed he’s got two BL books coming that are already being drawn, one by Mahnke (hoping that’s Frankenstein). So Lemire, Snyder, King, and maybe Waid all have BL work coming in 2021, which does make me feel better about it’s survival chances. We’ll see come March where things stand I guess.

[Dispenser Of Truth]

Jeff Lemire just confirmed he’s got two BL books coming that are already being drawn, one by Mahnke (hoping that’s Frankenstein). So Lemire, Snyder, King, and maybe Waid all have BL work coming in 2021, which does make me feel better about it’s survival chances. We’ll see come March where things stand I guess.

Unless they're letting that many immediately cancelled projects for an about-to-be-axed line go into production without mentioning anything and are willing to alienate that much of their bench - losing King altogether given Black Label is all he does now - it's not going anywhere for a bit.

[Ascended]

Even in the worst case scenario we as Superman fans will probably still be getting Superman content in some form to read. Outside the Trinity though I’d be worried

I figure Batman will continue getting a ton of projects across media formats, and Clark and Diana will continue to get a fair amount. Past them, the Titans are still highly viable as an IP in larger media and I won't be surprised to see them keep getting stuff like that Raven OGN. And believe it or not I actually have some hope that Nightwing will get a good amount of attention; he's appearing in a ton of things this year, a lot of it with high level creators, and I almost believe the new people at DC actually believe in him!

And stuff like Injustice and DCeased still sells really well, so that stuff isn't going away.

Then we'll have stuff aimed at synergy; stuff involving the Squad, Shazam, Aquaman, whoever has a film or game on the way.

I figure we might have less "main continuity" stuff, and obviously we're going to have fewer floppies, but I'm not against those things. If the trade off is fewer floppies within the main continuity and more stand alone content in digital and OGN then I'll take the stand alone content, happily. I mean, "Superman Smashes the Klan" is a superior product to the main titles in nearly every imaginable way, if the trade off is more of that I'll cancel my pull list right now.

Or that's what I was assuming the game plan was anyway; if some of the new heads have already been kicked out then....who knows? Silly me, for a second there I thought we might actually walk out of this with some stability and a workable plan for getting DC into the 21st century.

Oh, and I doubt the mature content and Black Label stuff will go away, but the "Black Label" name might. No real reason to have a specific imprint when you can just slap a "Mature" warning on the cover. Having an imprint means people will expect a certain amount of product to be released, but if DC just does a mature story when they have a good pitch, then they'll be able to focus on the quality without worrying about quantity.

[superduperman]

Do we know if Johnson's run takes place after Death Metal?

[vasir12]

Everything in March is after Death Metal, I'm pretty sure.