PKJ Action Comics Discussion and Spoilers

[Celgress]

Not thrilled with this. I want the Bendis run wiped out.

I feel your pain but I still hope things improve under a new hand.

[Lvenger]

From the looks of the announcement, Superman's identity is still public, Jon is still a teenager, the new supporting cast is the focus, plot points from Bendis' run are being followed up and the backup ties into Midnighter's future state story which I'm not interested in. Until someone pushes a hard reset on Bendis' grievous changes, I doubt I'll have an ongoing Superman comic on my pull list for a long while.

[Sacred Knight]

The only thing I want gone and at the same time has a legit shot at going away is the secret ID outing. If that gets put back in the box, its pretty much the best I can hope for. And I do think that'll happen but only at the conclusion of this big event they're pushing. But not every single thing Bendis did is going to be jettisoned. That's just reality.

[Celgress]

Just because you’re not creative enough to think of stories that follow up on Bendis’ changes doesn’t make it a handicap for the people (or person rather) actually writing the books.

Who said I'm not. I could but I don't think they are frankly worth continuing because most people hate them as the sales data confirms (an average 30% something percent drop higher certain months). Why continue with ideas that have been a well-documented commercial and critical failure?

[Yoda]

Welp. Well, as is typical, it doesn’t seem to have registered with a lot of people how low key sexist, problematic and patronizing this interview is so I’ll fall on the sword and point it out. Though I imagine at least a few of you did pick up on it and just didn’t comment on it.

Ok where do we start?

The continued problem of male writers forgetting that Jon Kent has a MOTHER is, without question, a continued issue of misogyny within the Superman office and in the way people discuss this character. There is a full paragraph here—a FULL PARAGRAPH!!!!—where both the interviewer and Philip discuss Jon Kent and his impact and how important he is and Lois isn’t mentioned one time. Not even a casual name drop. It’s like she doesn’t exist. As if Jon is a product of his father only and the woman who birthed him is no inconsequential that it doesn’t even matter. Folks, it shouldn’t have to be continually pointed out here how deeply not ok that is in the year 2020.

I like Jon Kent. I’m all in favor of him existing and in favor of using him (wisely) and exploring these dynamics but doing so at the expense of his mother wherein she is quite literally painted out of the picture (regulated to a random back up story every now and then? Who the heck knows? Philip didn’t mention her name one time) is not ok. This is not ok to do to her to basically treat her as a uterus to birth a kid and then push her off page like she doesn’t exist.

The subsequent convo where Philip talks about how vital Jon is to Superman because he helps you empathize with him as father etc is equally as problematic. Not because it’s not true. I absolutely understand why someone like Philip who has a young son himself would feel new empathy for Superman as a father. The problem comes again into how women play into this because if you can feel humanity and empathy for Superman as a father but you didn’t or don’t feel that same empathy for him as a loving husband....it says a lot and none of it is good. This is the kind of stuff we mean when we talk about why it’s so frustrating to see male writers continually struggle to connect to female characters to the point that we can feel their apathy on the page.

I am not trying to be contrary here nor am I trying to ruin the excitement of those who are ready for a fresh direction. I’m not impressed in the slightest with these big plans of a “new cast.” Who the heck cares about a new cast? It’s lazy. It means he isn’t interested in committing to developing the characters Superman actually has so it’s easier to just create new ones they can take credit for. Again (and this is true in Wonder Woman books too) inventing new female characters that men can take credit for and imprint upon is not an excuse for ignoring developed women in a franchise. It’s a CHEAT.

Guys, it’s 2020. Almost 2021. It is not a secret that DC Comics and again, the Superman office in particular has a notorious problem with employing women, treating women fairly and that it has directly translated for many years to the way women are treated in the fictional and editorial realm on the page. An interview like this about a grand new direction for Superman, that mentions Jon a TON, in the cultural climate we are in where the new writer doesn’t mention Lois Lane at all by name one time—even as Jon’s mother—is not acceptable and not ok. This is not Rocket science, guys. This is bare minimum effort and he couldn’t do it.

Not a good sign and it deserves to be called out by more people than just me as a woman doing it. Obviously not a full indictment of what he will or won’t do in the books because ...who knows? No idea. But as an interview promoting a new direction for a franchise literally launching a TV show with Lois’s name in the TITLE in February....this is not a great start.

Not surprising, but I agree with you here. The announcement was fine, the interview is a mess.

I was hoping for Yang and Waid but I do like a lot of what PKJ is saying so I'll give these a shot. Again, please don't sideline Clark for his son and I hope Lois isn't just, well, the mom and wife again.

I love backups highlighting Metropolis. I hope we get more Lois Lane material out of this new world order.

Not familiar with Siempre. Good to see Hester again. I loved him on Green Arrow.

- I expected Jon not to be de-aged.
- I didn't expect PKJ to get both books.
- I'm not happy of how little Lois has been mentioned going forward (hopefully she features heavily in Checkmate as Bendis has been hinting since forever).
- From the sound of the first few issues, it will be Jon heavy, I hope that's temporary and we get back to the books being about the big guy.
- If Waid is still around, then he's writing BL book that will probably work best for him if he's really not for the status quo. He can do anything, whatever he wants.

Checkmate and Lois' involvement in the United Planets in the Lex Future State book *hopefully* takes her out of the "Daily Planet/Metropolis" cast that he handwaves away in that interview. He says that the Future State stuff is hints to what is to come in Superman/Action. But this is the same writer who is working on House of El, and the fact that he doesn't really mention Lois in either that context or this one is a red flag for me.

Plus, they've been doing that New Creative Team-New Cadre of Characters bit with Wonder Woman to her great detriment for literally decades now, and that is a quagmire I don't want Superman to fall into.

[Sacred Knight]

To be the devil's advocate though, sales data didn't reflect Rebirth was this massive resurgence for Superman either. Frankly nothing of the past twenty years has performed that great within a main continuity structure. If we're going to hold Bendis' run to not performing up to snuff, we can't pretend there's been any gold standard in modern times, because there hasn't been. Its really sad, but the last time Superman was genuinely the cream of the crop alongside Batman was the triangle era.

None of this is to say I suddenly hold Bendis' run in any higher esteem. I don't. But there is some double standard regarding it and its mediocre sales.

[Vordan]

All I care about is “do I like this” and “is it selling well enough so that I can continue to enjoy it if I do like it”. Unless you get an Al Ewing Immortal Hulk tier smash hit, sales rarely rise for anything just because it’s a good comic.

[Celgress]

From the looks of the announcement, Superman's identity is still public, Jon is still a teenager, the new supporting cast is the focus, plot points from Bendis' run are being followed up and the backup ties into Midnighter's future state story which I'm not interested in. Until someone pushes a hard reset on Bendis' grievous changes, I doubt I'll have an ongoing Superman comic on my pull list for a long while.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I think I'll follow your lead. I'll wait for a few issues to see if things improve but all the Bendis love makes me very hesitant to return in January. Bendis wrote IMO the worst modern Superman comic by far. I don't want to read about the changes he has made, sorry.

[Yoda]

There is a core audience for Superman books with a floor of 30,000 - 35,000. That is the mean that pretty much everything reverts to. Bendis' sales weren't abysmal by DC's metrics. And all you need to look at is the announcement of Naomi getting her CW show to see where WB's places value on Bendis. That alone is worth more to them than if he goosed the sales up to 80,000 a month.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Well, provided that Waid is actually doing something Superman-related (and at this point it is a pretty big if), maybe it could be a mini or maxi series in the vein of The Life Story of the Flash, just Superman-related.
I was just thinking that nothing remarkable seems to be coming out from Death Metal or Future State up to now. This PKJ story is basically continuing Bendis' subplots as if Death Metal hadn't even existed. I mean, besides the Earth-3 mini and maybe a JSA work (for which we didn't even need Death Metal actually) what are we getting from "One Universe" nonsense?

I actually thought for years that a well-detailed maxi series with a retelling of Superman's career could finally work as a new Bible after years of continuity mess. I had actually thought of a 52-issue miniseries, but even something shorter, like Batman Eternal, could be enough. So maybe, just maybe, that's what we are getting. Or maybe it is just PKJ for the time being.

I'd actually read a King Black Label mini though. I like King.

The "One Universe" nonsense seems more like addressing DC's infinite reboots by pretending everything published is canon somehow but let's not think too much about it and move forward. Dunno how it's really supposed to work.

[Celgress]

To be the devil's advocate though, sales data didn't reflect Rebirth was this massive resurgence for Superman either. Frankly nothing of the past twenty years has performed that great within a main continuity structure. If we're going to hold Bendis' run to not performing up to snuff, we can't pretend there's been any gold standard in modern times, because there hasn't been. Its really sad, but the last time Superman was genuinely the cream of the crop alongside Batman was the triangle era.

None of this is to say I suddenly hold Bendis' run in any higher esteem. I don't. But there is some double standard regarding it and its mediocre sales.

Agreed, but at least I could tolerate those other runs and their ideas not so Bendis' run and ideas. I hated nearly everything he did and I'm glad he commercially failed to reinvigorate Sups or even maintain past readership. His ideas were terrible and poorly executed, sorry but it's how I feel.

[Celgress]

The "One Universe" nonsense seems more like addressing DC's infinite reboots by pretending everything published is canon somehow but let's not think too much about it and move forward. Dunno how it's supposed to work.

indeed, friend, indeed

[Sacred Knight]

I feel you. Everyone feels that way about certain runs. I STILL miss the New 52 and am not ashamed to admit it, despite knowing that it didn't light the world on fire either. At this point its really just about what grabs the reader. Like Vordan and Yoda alluded to, sales numbers are pretty much set at this point regardless. It would probably take a very unforseen consequence to change it. Something outside of the comics that really just jettisoned the character back up into previously charted levels of popularity. Minus that, sales will be what they are and only an unprecedented dip really would show much. Just gotta hope whatever a creative direction is at one point fits your ideals, or at least a decent amount of them.

[Celgress]

There is a core audience for Superman books with a floor of 30,000 - 35,000. That is the mean that pretty much everything reverts to. Bendis' sales weren't abysmal by DC's metrics. And all you need to look at is the announcement of Naomi getting her CW show to see where WB's places value on Bendis. That alone is worth more to them than if he goosed the sales up to 80,000 a month.

You mean Kamala Khan lite, sorry I couldn't resist.

[Celgress]

I feel you. Everyone feels that way about certain runs. I STILL miss the New 52 and am not ashamed to admit it, despite knowing that it didn't light the world on fire either. At this point its really just about what grabs the reader. Like Vordan and Yoda alluded to, sales numbers are pretty much set at this point regardless. Just gotta hope whatever a creative direction is at one point fits your ideals, or at least a decent amount of them.

I thought the New 52 had a lot of great elements so you aren't alone, friend.