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  1. #1771
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    I’m the only one saying it, because I’m the only one who cares enough to even point it out


    The shitty sales of Superman and action proves what I am saying
    Superman sales haven't been good outside of relaunches for years, far before Jon ever was created. You're trying to co-opt a trend to fit a narrative.

  2. #1772
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    I think Morrison and Tomasi were the ones who sold great, and they needed linewide relaunches to do so. Supes sells well enough to support two books (although now they giving one of those to Jon), but he doesn’t sell great. To be perfectly frank, he needs a big successful event to get a bunch of eyes on his books and keep people engaged. Sinestro Corps War was what took GL to the top if I recall correctly. He needs a hit like that. He hasn’t had one in a long time I don’t think: Our Worlds at War, New Krypton, Reign of Doomsday, Doomed, Truth, all were terrible. Death and Reign were his last big events which is why they’re the ones people tend to fall back on. He needs something new.
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  3. #1773
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    He needs to have a run with a status quo that people...actually like

    And the last one that people liked was in rebirth

    People have soundly rejected everything about him since when bendis took over

    And he needs a writer that is devoted to making him work full time without editorial interference

    And he desperately needs a good video game, a good movie, or both at the same time


    And he needs a big DC-wide event that centers on him
    Last edited by kryptonian; 06-12-2021 at 12:46 PM.

  4. #1774
    Astonishing Member Korath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    He needs to have a run with a status quo that people...actually like

    And the last one that people liked was in rebirth

    People have soundly rejected everything about him since when bendis took over

    And he needs a writer that is devoted to making him work full time without editorial interference

    And he desperately needs a good video game, a good movie, or both at the same time


    And he needs a big DC-wide event that centers on him
    Not everyone liked that status quo in Rebirth, and in fact it alreayd proved to be floundering and unsustainable at the end of Tomasi's run. Get real, the so called iconic status quo won't save Superman as a seller.

  5. #1775
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Was going to keep this to myself, but in light of the new cover for Action Comics #1035 this has now gone from a theory to the most likely situation.

    Anyways, he's the cover for Justice League #68




    In light of Jon becoming full time Superman, Clark leaving, and Batman suggesting that Jon join the League because of his climbing power levels, this cover seems to be that moment happening. The League welcoming its new Superman, and Clark being there to hand off the keys to him (like he'll later do with the Fortress in Son of Superman)

    Why would it be Jon they're welcoming? Well, it's not Naomi (she's right there), it's not Wonder Mom (she's right there), and it's not Black Adam (he's right there). Given the fact that the arc right after Naomi's is a United Planets arc where they question if there can still be a UP, and Jon is the founder, chances seem very good that it's him.

    Also, this is an seems to be an inversion of this cover for Legion

    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

    - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  6. #1776
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    Moving on from Jon discussion, seems what PKJ said about Lois not having a place in his run will start in September. Hopefully someone else uses her in stories (so far we have Bendis in Checkmate and Taylor has also promised to use her in S:SoKE IIRC).

    If we're still having back-ups in AC after the current Midnighter story is done, hopefully it'll be Lois focused, or Steel focused, or even Krypton focused to compliment whatever PKJ's doing.

  7. #1777
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    The sales discussions are really pointless, we are talking about miniscule numbers. More people watch informercials at 3am then read Superman books, any Youtuber with the same sized audience like Action Comics would be a virtually unknown creator.

    Also the "great" and "awful" runs have basically the same sales anyway, any Variant Cover has more pull than any the writer or artist has nowadays. The reality is Superman has around ~40k single issue readers and loads of them probably just buy it out of habit.
    Just bag and board it and put it in their longbox, might not even read it really

  8. #1778
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    Quote Originally Posted by Korath View Post
    Not everyone liked that status quo in Rebirth, and in fact it alreayd proved to be floundering and unsustainable at the end of Tomasi's run. Get real, the so called iconic status quo won't save Superman as a seller.
    And this status quo is?

    People have already rejected the status quo of bendis and this status quo as evidenced by its shitty sales.

    And audiences literally burned new 52 marriageless status quo into the ground


    Superman and Lois(taking more from rebirth than bendis’s nonsense) success proves I’m right
    Last edited by kryptonian; 06-12-2021 at 02:20 PM.

  9. #1779
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    And this status quo is?

    People have already rejected the status quo of bendis and this status quo as evidenced by its shitty sales.

    And audiences literally burned new 52 marriageless status quo into the ground


    Superman and Lois(taking more from rebirth than bendis’s nonsense) success proves I’m right
    The sales difference between N52 and Rebirth was tiny and the trade sales for Rebirth were actually lower than the N52 ones. Rebirth in general had terrible trade sales but that's a different story.
    You can't prove anything with sales so small, it's not like sales doubled or something noticeable.

    That's also the reason DC (and Marvel) have no problem throwing away stuff, comicbooks are a collectors market and not a readers market. It's all about Variant Covers and First appearances, the actual stories are becoming increasingly irrelevant

  10. #1780
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    Moving on from Jon discussion, seems what PKJ said about Lois not having a place in his run will start in September. Hopefully someone else uses her in stories (so far we have Bendis in Checkmate and Taylor has also promised to use her in S:SoKE IIRC).

    If we're still having back-ups in AC after the current Midnighter story is done, hopefully it'll be Lois focused, or Steel focused, or even Krypton focused to compliment whatever PKJ's doing.
    Feel pretty confident that she will have a role to play in Taylor’s SSoKE. Bendis likes using her so I’m sure she’ll play a role in his plans. Besides those two, she’ll be in Superman ‘78 for sure. She’ll be fine.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  11. #1781
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airtrap View Post
    The sales difference between N52 and Rebirth was tiny and the trade sales for Rebirth were actually lower than the N52 ones. Rebirth in general had terrible trade sales but that's a different story.
    You can't prove anything with sales so small, it's not like sales doubled or something noticeable.

    That's also the reason DC (and Marvel) have no problem throwing away stuff, comicbooks are a collectors market and not a readers market. It's all about Variant Covers and First appearances, the actual stories are becoming increasingly irrelevant
    Keep telling yourself that


    New 52 is hated, dc literally had an entire movie devoted to slaughtering that iteration of the universe, and Warner’s multimedia are treating any remnants of that era like a cancer


    Hell...there is an entire Superman show where the villain is a new 52 coded Superman and Warner’s only reason for not continuing the snyderverse is part of a larger strategy to get away from that era

    Their injustice adaptation is only allowed to exist because of the ending where dark Superman has his cheeks clapped by prime Superman
    Last edited by kryptonian; 06-12-2021 at 03:27 PM.

  12. #1782
    Ultimate Member Sacred Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    Moving on from Jon discussion, seems what PKJ said about Lois not having a place in his run will start in September. Hopefully someone else uses her in stories (so far we have Bendis in Checkmate and Taylor has also promised to use her in S:SoKE IIRC).

    If we're still having back-ups in AC after the current Midnighter story is done, hopefully it'll be Lois focused, or Steel focused, or even Krypton focused to compliment whatever PKJ's doing.
    Unless she's the character who goes off with Superman to wherever after the Authority book as teased in the solicits, I have no idea what they'll do with her going forward beyond demoting her to a Ma Kent stand in for Jon. They're going to want to create a new supporting cast for him including likely another love interest(s) which will take up panel time that would normally go to any side adventure she might be having Planet-wise. And I have my doubts she is the one being teased because in past instances where Superman has gone into space before and stayed there a while, its exceedingly rare she's along for the ride. Maybe that changes this time, we'll see.
    Last edited by Sacred Knight; 06-12-2021 at 03:54 PM.
    "They can be a great people Kal-El, they wish to be. They only lack the light to show the way. For this reason above all, their capacity for good, I have sent them you. My only son." - Jor-El

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  13. #1783
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    Keep telling yourself that


    New 52 is hated, dc literally had an entire movie devoted to slaughtering that iteration of the universe, and Warner’s multimedia are treating any remnants of that era like a cancer
    You might want to take a look at that Superman suit design for Fortnite again before saying that lol.
    Hell...there is an entire Superman show where the villain is a new 52 coded Superman
    Lmaooooo what? No clue how you came away with that at all. This guy:

    Isn’t at all similar to Evil CEO Kryptonian supremacist Edge.
    and Warner’s only reason for not continuing the snyderverse is part of a larger strategy to get away from that era
    Uh no? Dude this is insane, you’re saying they abandoned their entire plan for a cinematic universe because the comics side flopped? WB doesn’t give a **** about the comics. They GUTTED the comics division during the layoffs because of how little it meant. Snyderverse died because Snyder couldn’t get them the $$$ they wanted, that’s the only reason why. And hell Snyder got Clark and Lois together from the first movie! There was little to nothing of the New 52 in Snyder’s films, he drew on Byrne, Miller, and Injustice for his take.
    Their injustice adaptation is only allowed to exist because of the ending where dark Superman has his cheeks clapped by prime Superman
    I freaking wish lol but that’s not true. It’s because Injustice is insanely successful and they’re starting to cash in on its popularity.

    Look we’re getting a bunch of media with Superman that’s all aimed at different audiences. S&L for the Superdad audience, MAWS for the young Superman audience, Injustice for evil Superman, the Coates reboot for black Superman, there’s no one take driving the franchise anymore and that’s good for me because it means there’s something out there I’ll like even if one piece of media doesn’t do it for me.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  14. #1784
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    Moving on from Jon discussion, seems what PKJ said about Lois not having a place in his run will start in September. Hopefully someone else uses her in stories (so far we have Bendis in Checkmate and Taylor has also promised to use her in S:SoKE IIRC).

    If we're still having back-ups in AC after the current Midnighter story is done, hopefully it'll be Lois focused, or Steel focused, or even Krypton focused to compliment whatever PKJ's doing.
    Taylor has said she’ll have a big role in Jon’s life going forward. He loves Lois and I think she’s in good hands with him. He’s been dying to write the “real” Lois and this is probably his best chance.

  15. #1785
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    You're the only one saying this, so I doubt it. Even guys like Blue22 who hate Teen Jon don't whine nearly as much. Believe it or not, your opinion doesn't reflect the majority of fandom. Hell, not even of Teen Jon haters.
    Oh shit, I got name dropped! Kinda makes me sad that I came in here with the intent of whining about something else. But I'll hold off for now XD

    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    I’m the only one saying it, because I’m the only one who cares enough to even point it out


    The shitty sales of Superman and action proves what I am saying
    Dude no. It's not a matter of who cares more. I think you'll find there are a good number of people here who share most of your sentiments. Well all love Jon. We all care about Jon. We all want Jon to be fixed. And I'm pretty sure most of us detractors will continue complaining about it even if it never happens (at least I will). But, all gripes aside, you gotta be realistic too.

    It's fun to vent and wish for things to change for the better. But there's also a very good chance that things won't and the world of DC will keep on turning, just like it did before Jon.

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