PKJ Action Comics Discussion and Spoilers

[Yoda]

I don't think that it is about misogyny. It sure does play a part, but I think that most of the people involved genuinely don't know what to do with Lois. Thats why we don't see her much and get things like Superwoman or latest "Lois series" by Rucka.

Perhaps they could look to every mass media adaptation of Superman that's existed over the last 40 years for inspiration?

I legitimately think Rucka's series went the way it did mostly out of spite to DC. Of all the writers DC has had in its stable, Rucka is not one who suffers from the lack of imagination to use a character like Lois. He used her in essentially Renee's role in his Adventures of Superman run. And the Superwoman thing was just a mess. How can the justification for that be they didn't know how to use Lois when the bait and switch went to another human character that gained superpowers?

[sifighter]

I don't think that it is about misogyny. It sure does play a part, but I think that most of the people involved genuinely don't know what to do with Lois. Thats why we don't see her much and get things like Superwoman or latest "Lois series" by Rucka.

I mean I hate to say it but yeah, I like Lois she can be a brilliantly written character and wonderful part of Clark’s life...but she’s not exactly who you call when Mongul or Darkseid shows up for a big brawl, which those types of fights happen in a Superman book. She is after all a regular human being so she’s limited in what she can do, it’s why certain stories have to focus on her investigation reporting angle or in the case of Checkmate how those skills translate to spy work.

Like the current story arc in Superman for instance where Jon and Clark go and fight shadow monsters, what would she do exactly besides be in danger? I’m not saying keep her out of the books, if anything she should have her own backups instead of Ambush bug, but let’s temper our expectations of what she can do.

[Yoda]

I mean I hate to say it but yeah, I like Lois she can be a brilliantly written character and wonderful part of Clark’s life...but she’s not exactly who you call when Mongul or Darkseid shows up for a big brawl, which those types of fights happen in a Superman book. She is after all a regular human being so she’s limited in what she can do, it’s why certain stories have to focus on her investigation reporting angle or in the case of Checkmate how those skills translate to spy work.

Like the current story arc in Superman for instance where Jon and Clark go and fight shadow monsters, what would she do exactly besides be in danger? I’m not saying keep her out of the books, if anything she should have her own backups instead of Ambush bug, but let’s temper our expectations of what she can do.

These aren't actual events. The stories can and should incorporate elements that can bring in all aspects of the character's cast generally.

They already established that Waller is doing some shady background manipulations on Earth. Who could they possibly use to service that storyline while Clark and Jon are out in space? Someone who has established investigative skills and connections to the spy community? Oh! I know. Fan favorites Bibbo and Ambush Bug!

And no one is complaining about a story arc that leaves her out for 3 issues or something like that. This is about sidelining her for what's been said is a long new direction for the whole line and simultaneously spotlighting all the kids Clark had once she dies. Honestly, I expect once the books split and if Jon takes over one they won't use her there either and justify it because Jon shouldn't look to his mother for guidance or support some nonsense like that.

[Korath]

For the life of me I can't comprehend why people would want even more of Lois Lane, Journalist Extraordinaire who seemingly can do everything a character like Batman does, without any of the drawbacks.

Like, I really, really, dislike that she'll be center piece in Checkmate. Super-spy (or even spiecraft) is not the same as doing a journalistic investigation. And her presence here, to me at least, appears to be because she's a Lane, who comes from an old and powerful military family of the globe's still first power economically or militarily. Which doesn't entice her to me at all because she is never treated as this suepr-prividleged white girl when she is basically not very different from all the "journalists" I have at home who uses and abuses of their position to shot down anyone nthey don't like.

She is not some super-adveturer and she shouldn't need to be. Just like Steve Trevor shouldn't need to be Action Man to be Diana's lover. Is Superman so petty and narrow-minded that he needs some sort of super-woman to be his wife and would be attracted by someone who is just a normal, if resourceful and quite skilled, human ? Really ?

But then again, I really do'nt like Lois Lane as a character or a concept. She never clicked for me and probably never will. Too much old family, too much privileges and too much attempt to bullshit us into seeing her as this woman who surmonted all odds to be where she is.

[Yoda]

For the life of me I can't comprehend why people would want even more of Lois Lane, Journalist Extraordinaire who seemingly can do everything a character like Batman does, without any of the drawbacks.

Like, I really, really, dislike that she'll be center piece in Checkmate. Super-spy (or even spiecraft) is not the same as doing a journalistic investigation. And her presence here, to me at least, appears to be because she's a Lane, who comes from an old and powerful military family of the globe's still first power economically or militarily. Which doesn't entice her to me at all because she is never treated as this suepr-prividleged white girl when she is basically not very different from all the "journalists" I have at home who uses and abuses of their position to shot down anyone nthey don't like.

She is not some super-adveturer and she shouldn't need to be. Just like Steve Trevor shouldn't need to be Action Man to be Diana's lover. Is Superman so petty and narrow-minded that he needs some sort of super-woman to be his wife and would be attracted by someone who is just a normal, if resourceful and quite skilled, human ? Really ?

But then again, I really do'nt like Lois Lane as a character or a concept. She never clicked for me and probably never will. Too much old family, too much privileges and too much attempt to bullshit us into seeing her as this woman who surmonted all odds to be where she is.

You must really hate Wonder Woman then. The white daughter of an immortal monarch whose powers stem wholly from her father.

[NaVi]

the secondary superman characters have a very obvious problem, they are normal humans, that means they cannot be part of the action, not unless they become a nuisance or the damsel in distress, that's why many writers leave them to a side. It is not the fault of the characters, in their time they fulfilled their role, but they have not evolved (the superverse has not evolved). I would be delighted with a comic focused on clark as a journalist and therefore without powers, it would be the perfect comic to develop the entire secondary universe and make sense of those legendary characters.

[Robanker]

For the life of me I can't comprehend why people would want even more of Lois Lane, Journalist Extraordinaire who seemingly can do everything a character like Batman does, without any of the drawbacks.

Like, I really, really, dislike that she'll be center piece in Checkmate. Super-spy (or even spiecraft) is not the same as doing a journalistic investigation. And her presence here, to me at least, appears to be because she's a Lane, who comes from an old and powerful military family of the globe's still first power economically or militarily. Which doesn't entice her to me at all because she is never treated as this suepr-prividleged white girl when she is basically not very different from all the "journalists" I have at home who uses and abuses of their position to shot down anyone nthey don't like.

She is not some super-adveturer and she shouldn't need to be. Just like Steve Trevor shouldn't need to be Action Man to be Diana's lover. Is Superman so petty and narrow-minded that he needs some sort of super-woman to be his wife and would be attracted by someone who is just a normal, if resourceful and quite skilled, human ? Really ?

But then again, I really do'nt like Lois Lane as a character or a concept. She never clicked for me and probably never will. Too much old family, too much privileges and too much attempt to bullshit us into seeing her as this woman who surmonted all odds to be where she is.

So your problem with Lois Lane is that her dad's an ******* but had money and therefor she has no worth and her accomplishments are not deserved despite most examples of women who speak up in her country and profession being belittled as "uppity" and dismissed because of their sex? How enlightened.

Clark loves Lois for her strength of character, but she also happens to be the world's greatest investigative journalist. Moreover, she has many flaws and they constantly get the better of her (she's incredibly cynical when left to her own conclusions, she smokes, she gets jealous of Wonder Woman when she doesn't have a reason to) but you've made up your mind. As you have about Superman himself, and while you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't know why you're coming to a Superman thread when you don't like Superman or Lois and only liked a Superman (N52) that the company has moved away from and will decidedly not be featured in the run the thread is discussing.

[Korath]

You must really hate Wonder Woman then. The white daughter of an immortal monarch whose powers stem wholly from her father.

If she wasn't a fish out of water in the world she currently lives, I would. But as an immigrant who wants to make the world better and who can't rely on her familial privileges beyond her powers (most of the time), I don't.

But I have a lot of problems with Paradise Island, it's societies and the undertone it convey, far more so than I have with Lois Lane even. At least, Lois isn't integral to most stories of Superman. Nowadays at least.

So your problem with Lois Lane is that her dad's an ******* but had money and therefor she has no worth and her accomplishments are not deserved despite most examples of women who speak up in her country and profession being belittled as "uppity" and dismissed because of their sex? How enlightened.

Clark loves Lois for her strength of character, but she also happens to be the world's greatest investigative journalist. Moreover, she has many flaws and they constantly get the better of her (she's incredibly cynical when left to her own conclusions, she smokes, she gets jealous of Wonder Woman when she doesn't have a reason to) but you've made up your mind. As you have about Superman himself, and while you're entitled to your opinion, I just don't know why you're coming to a Superman thread when you don't like Superman or Lois and only liked a Superman (N52) that the company has moved away from and will decidedly not be featured in the run the thread is discussing.

Because I'd like to see if there is something interesting dicussing about the current run without having to sudffer through countless pages of peoples bemoaning that Lois Lane, a character I find utterly uninteresting is somehow mistreated ?

[Yoda]

If she wasn't a fish out of water in the world she currently lives, I would. But as an immigrant who wants to make the world better and who can't rely on her familial privileges beyond her powers (most of the time), I don't.

But I have a lot of problems with Paradise Island, it's societies and the undertone it convey, far more so than I have with Lois Lane even. At least, Lois isn't integral to most stories of Superman. Nowadays at least.

Setting aside Checkmate, in what why does Lois "rely on her familial privileges" in any respect greater than Wonder Woman? I mean really, Sam Lane is a small portion of Lois' story at best, and to the extent that he has been utilized is presented as opposition to her in most if not all respects. She actively chooses to not follow a path that would rely on his status to help her achieve, and enters into a profession where it wouldn't benefit her and may actually be a detriment. In the US at least, most major non-conservative news organizations would not see "Dad's a powerful general and part of the military industrial complex" as a plus.

In what way is Wonder Woman's immigrant status or "being a fish out of water" in any way something she has to overcome other than not knowing what ice cream is when first introduced? She's presented as white, heterosexual, unworldly beautiful, frequently immortal, never wants for money, status, or position, and utilizes the "privileges" she was born with - her powers that descend from being a literal goddess currently, to overcome any and all impediments. Frankly her "fish out of water status" is more unbelievable and ridiculous aspect of the character.

[Korath]

Setting aside Checkmate, in what why does Lois "rely on her familial privileges" in any respect greater than Wonder Woman? I mean really, Sam Lane is a small portion of Lois' story at best, and to the extent that he has been utilized is presented as opposition to her in most if not all respects. She actively chooses to not follow a path that would rely on his status to help her achieve, and enters into a profession where it wouldn't benefit her and may actually be a detriment. In the US at least, most major non-conservative news organizations would not see "Dad's a powerful general and part of the military industrial complex" as a plus.

In what way is Wonder Woman's immigrant status or "being a fish out of water" in any way something she has to overcome other than not knowing what ice cream is when first introduced? She's presented as white, heterosexual, unworldly beautiful, frequently immortal, never wants for money, status, or position, and utilizes the "privileges" she was born with - her powers that descend from being a literal goddess currently, to overcome any and all impediments. Frankly her "fish out of water status" is more unbelievable and ridiculous aspect of the character.

Let's agree to disagree, because I have absolutely zero interest in discussing that. I finally posted here because I couldn't stand the constant bemoaning of Lois Lane not because used more, it's not to add even more fuel to it.

[Frontier]

To be honest the Checkmate thing seems weird to me because I don't think of Lois as a spy or spymaster type, even though apparently now Sam Lane was like the uber spy government guy (for some reason).

I mean, I'm happy to have Lois featured in something, but it just doesn't feel quite right.

[Vordan]

To be honest the Checkmate thing seems weird to me because I don't think of Lois as a spy or spymaster type, even though apparently now Sam Lane was like the uber spy government guy (for some reason).

I mean, I'm happy to have Lois featured in something, but it just doesn't feel quite right.

Well Bendis also gave Clark & Lois secret spy identities (remember Chaz? How could anyone forget Chaz!) so she does have some experience beyond just being Sam’s daughter. It’s Silver Age insanity that I’m kinda curious to explore.

[Robanker]

To be honest the Checkmate thing seems weird to me because I don't think of Lois as a spy or spymaster type, even though apparently now Sam Lane was like the uber spy government guy (for some reason).

I mean, I'm happy to have Lois featured in something, but it just doesn't feel quite right.

I don't like making her part of a spy org either, but I'm looking at her inclusion as part of keeping Checkmate honest-- she'd absolutely burn them down and expose their bullshit if it got corrupt, so that's my personal reason as to why she's there. Same with Ollie, frankly. Bendis put together a really strange spy team if we're being honest.

[NaVi]

That story shouldn't be connected to the superverse, after reading it I felt like they only used superman comics to sell it and that superman and his verse were filler. a spin-off that featured Lois as a journalist trying to uncover the truth would have been better.

[HsssH]

I don't like making her part of a spy org either, but I'm looking at her inclusion as part of keeping Checkmate honest-- she'd absolutely burn them down and expose their bullshit if it got corrupt, so that's my personal reason as to why she's there. Same with Ollie, frankly. Bendis put together a really strange spy team if we're being honest.

If we removed the word "spy" then I think it would sum up his career rather well.

Edit: And I guess it is another example of people involved not knowing what to do with her.