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  1. #1006
    Mighty Member manduck37's Avatar
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    For the record, they already did a story about Clark writing a book. Anyone remember Under a Yellow Sun? It was a one shot graphic novel. Not bad from what I remember. Nothing amazing but a good story.

    It always puts me off when a writer says the secret identity is "silly" or a "lie". It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Superman and why the secret identity was created. Yes, the identity lets him live a normal life. There's a lot more to it than that and living a normal life is just part of it. It's one of the most important aspects of Superman that his creators put into the character. It's about the experience of being a Jewish immigrant and having to hide that to avoid discrimination and hatred. If anything, the secret identity is more relevant now than it has been in decades. Remember "you will look like one of them but you will not be one of them"? It's why we know Stan Lee as Stan Lee and not Stan Lieber or Jack Kirby instead of Jacob Kurtzberg. So saying that the identity isn't relevant or taking at face value and saying people would figure it out misses the point entirely. It's not meant to be believable, it's a metaphor for the experience of a lot of immigrants. Besides, this is a story about a flying man from outer space who fights crime and aliens while wearing a blue bodysuit and red cape. "Realism" went out the door with the very concept and that's ok.

  2. #1007
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordUltimus View Post
    It seems incredibly ironic to me for Bendis to painstakingly justify Clark still working at the Daily Planet after the identity reveal only for the next writer to push that almost completely aside to put him in space.
    I mean Bendis is the one who established all the united planets and Mongul stuff, so I'm not 100% on sure on all that.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
    Words to live by.

  3. #1008
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    For goodness sakes I do not understand what you have against him writing a book. You think him telling people what he thinks is bad why? He has had an experience of the world unlike anyone else and what makes ghihim interesting is that he actually has valuable things to say that come in hand with his actions. A blog is a fluff piece. A book is a serious effort at trying to do something.

    What I'm saying is that you talking about how people don't want Superman to take care of wife beaters, but I haven't seen anyone say this is a bad thing. Defending innocent people also seems like something everyone can agree with.

    And again, why would Superman care about "truth"? What meaning does it have to him?
    Calm down,i was just putting forward why i don't think clark would write a book.You can disagree.

    Everyone can agree with it.Yet,how many truly react when situation presents itself?Clark is one of those people.Cause,he was asked to hide himself and lie from the get go, to be safe.It is human tendency to want things that they don't have.So,clark values truth.Then he chose writing and journalism(granted that was kinda standard) they have code of ethics as well.Even if many don't follow it.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 01-22-2021 at 06:56 AM.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  4. #1009
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Ok, I just didn't get it. But ok.

    I don't think journalists really value truth above all else. They value justice in the sense that people should know how they are exploited. They also desire success and fame and shocking secrets are good for both. But privacy and security are above truth. They protect sources for a reason (mostly for maintaining trust of future sources, but also for ethics). You deserve to know information that concerns you as long as it doesn't destroy someone else's life.

    Truth can be something he approves of, but it's certainly something he could sacrifice above other values. Justice is certainly above truth. I think happiness and safety would also be above truth for Superman (and maybe freedom, hard to tell)

  5. #1010
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    A lot weve heard before but some new stuff too. Excited for his proper run to begin. Also his FS issue has been the highest rated Superman FS issue, and one of the highest rated FS issues overall critic wise. Starting to see why DC picked him as their guy.
    Glad to hear that. It was one of the few FS book that I really enjoyed. The event is all over the place, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacred Knight View Post
    You never like to hear a writer say that they never thought Superman needed an alter ego. That's just such a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. Its one thing to say its a concept worth exploring now. Although I would disagree it, I could at least understand where that would be coming from. Saying that he never needed it...red flag.
    I fail to see how the secret ID is silly and outdated but SM trunks aren't (Bendis brought back them before getting rid of the ID). 🤨 In a top 10 list of SM's elements to get rid of, I would put the trunks first, and the secret ID wouldn't make into the list.

  6. #1011

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    What if he publishes a book that is a collection of blog posts to split the difference?

    Or a cookbook! How To Take the Cake: 40 Decadent Delights.
    Just so long as said cookbook is not called, "To Serve Man," we'll be all set.

    Di3LI-1545154657-335-quizzes-serve man.jpg

  7. #1012
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I just realized that the origin of the "Truth and Justice" thing does go back to 1940, in the radio serials, but the use of it has been morphed. Look:

    "Superman--defender of law and order, champion of equal rights, valiant, courageous fighter against the forces of hate and prejudice, who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a never-ending battle for truth and justice."

    Truth and Justice is what they say Clark Kent the journalist does. Not Superman.
    Which is why it’s such a shame that the majority of writers do little to nothing with the journalism angle. Morrison was constantly using it in his Action run, it’s part of why I really love that run. Enjoyed Wolfman’s usage of it in his origin too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Superman having those pre conceived expectations is much more unique than another story about a son not feeling as good as his father. I haven't read it but someone in another thread mentioned Superman / Hitman and a moment where he talks about an astronaut who got into trouble in space and Superman arrived, which instantly made the astronaut feel that he had already been saved, and he kept looking at Superman with that confidence and assurance even though Superman couldn't actually save him and he ended up dying.

    Also, Clark having a middle age crisis about "have I been too scared to really change the world" and deciding he wants to try a new approach actually has a lot more meaning.
    That was more or less the Bendis run. Jor-El reappears, tells Kal he’s disappointed in how little he’s achieved and is unimpressed with his superheroics. That was sort of the impetus for the run. I agree that the “problems” for Superman are both surmountable and completely self inflicted on DC’s part, but I’m just attempting to explain what I believe their mindset is.
    Quote Originally Posted by rpmaluki View Post
    Maybe I'm doff but I thought that was apparent to people. This is why I always felt Clark was important and not some disguise or parody to full people. Superman fighting Mongul/Metallo/Brainiac and the like is not exactly a battle for "Truth and Justice".
    Sadly others don’t see it as clearly as you do. There are many who see “Clark” as pointless, especially in the wake of Marvel more or less abandoning secret identities besides Spidey.

  8. #1013
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Isnt PKJ related but I feel like we can make this thread just a general thread for all Superman discussion during the PKJ era like we did for Bendis if the mods are ok with it.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/CKVgZrIj...d=g79q9jvdhj9s
    Brad Walker got his Morrison Omnibus comps, so it exists! **** yes, thank God this is coming out before the trade department gets freaking shuttered. All I want now are a Johns Superman omnibus collecting his Pre-FP run (Id take his brief New 52 run too though) and a Busiek Superman Omnibus and Id be content. Would like a Bendis one too but that would be years away at the earliest if it were to happen.
    Forgot ths was coming out, nice! It even includes the backup stories by Sholly, this was such a great run. Actually it was the fist superman comic run I even followed lol.

  9. #1014
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Forgot ths was coming out, nice! It even includes the backup stories by Sholly, this was such a great run. Actually it was the fist superman comic run I even followed lol.
    First run I ever followed month to month. Very happy the Fisch backups are here, they were all great. Sad we never got to see Fisch do a proper run on Supes himself since I think he would’ve done a great job.

    Have to laugh at Lee no doubt being the reason they used that Action variant as the cover. It’s alright but I honestly prefer the Morales original cover better.

  10. #1015
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    First run I ever followed month to month. Very happy the Fisch backups are here, they were all great. Sad we never got to see Fisch do a proper run on Supes himself since I think he would’ve done a great job.

    Have to laugh at Lee no doubt being the reason they used that Action variant as the cover. It’s alright but I honestly prefer the Morales original cover better.
    Add Fisch to the laundry list of "writers who deserve a run on Superman."

    Shame DC doesn't put out more Super books.

  11. #1016
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Add Fisch to the laundry list of "writers who deserve a run on Superman."

    Shame DC doesn't put out more Super books.
    He’d be a great fit for Blue & Red! Someone should ask the Superfamily editors to put him there. I begged Lee to make sure the Fisch backups were in the Morrison Omnibus on Twitter, and while I can’t prove that’s why they’re there, I don’t think it hurt lol.

  12. #1017
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    He’d be a great fit for Blue & Red! Someone should ask the Superfamily editors to put him there. I begged Lee to make sure the Fisch backups were in the Morrison Omnibus on Twitter, and while I can’t prove that’s why they’re there, I don’t think it hurt lol.
    Oh, so it was you? Cool. Can you float the idea of a new Lois Lane maxi where she's not the Question's opening act? Asking for a friend. The friend is me. lol

  13. #1018
    Ultimate Member Ascended's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manduck37 View Post
    It always puts me off when a writer says the secret identity is "silly" or a "lie". It shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Superman and why the secret identity was created.
    Totally agreed. This is the first thing I've heard PKJ say that doesn't have me nodding my head in agreement with him. I feel like if you don't get the secret identity and the dichotomy of Clark-Superman and why that matters so damn much, then you don't really understand Superman at all. It's not just about the classic "protecting those around me" thing like most secret ID's, it's a fundamental aspect of how the character views the world and interacts with it. It speaks deeply to his psychology and I don't think you can truly understand who and what Superman is until you understand the differences and similarities and nuance of "Clark-Superman."

    And I say this as someone who isn't against the idea of Clark going public at this stage of his life. I think Bendis handled Clark coming out pretty damn well, actually. But that doesn't mean the duality of the character doesn't matter, is a lie, or whatever.

    I'm still hoping this run turns out some quality work; PKJ wrote one of my favorite books of last year with Last God so I still have hope....but if he fails to comprehend the value of the dual identity, even with it now revealed, then that's a cause for some concern.
    "We all know the truth: more connects us than separates us. But in times of crisis the wise build bridges, while the foolish build barriers. We must find a way to look after one another, as if we were one single tribe."

    ~ Black Panther.

  14. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Glad to hear that. It was one of the few FS book that I really enjoyed. The event is all over the place, imo.



    I fail to see how the secret ID is silly and outdated but SM trunks aren't (Bendis brought back them before getting rid of the ID). �� In a top 10 list of SM's elements to get rid of, I would put the trunks first, and the secret ID wouldn't make into the list.
    Trunks are awful. I dropped Superman over them.

  15. #1020
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended View Post
    Totally agreed. This is the first thing I've heard PKJ say that doesn't have me nodding my head in agreement with him. I feel like if you don't get the secret identity and the dichotomy of Clark-Superman and why that matters so damn much, then you don't really understand Superman at all. It's not just about the classic "protecting those around me" thing like most secret ID's, it's a fundamental aspect of how the character views the world and interacts with it. It speaks deeply to his psychology and I don't think you can truly understand who and what Superman is until you understand the differences and similarities and nuance of "Clark-Superman."

    And I say this as someone who isn't against the idea of Clark going public at this stage of his life. I think Bendis handled Clark coming out pretty damn well, actually. But that doesn't mean the duality of the character doesn't matter, is a lie, or whatever.

    I'm still hoping this run turns out some quality work; PKJ wrote one of my favorite books of last year with Last God so I still have hope....but if he fails to comprehend the value of the dual identity, even with it now revealed, then that's a cause for some concern.
    Let us know how he does with issue 12 of TLG tomorrow, being able to nail the ending is one of the most important attributes of a writer.

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