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  1. #1141
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Looks like Doc Shaner is doing something for Superman if I’m understanding the tweet correctly, unless it’s just a personal piece.

    https://twitter.com/docshaner/status...274770950?s=21

    I wonder if it’s related to the Tom King Superman project that’s coming?
    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    While it can get out of hand, I'd actually have to disagree with the idea that doing this has zero chance of yielding results (be they immediate results or otherwise). Much as I hate using this as an example (because I hate those movies with a passion)...Look at how loud and obnoxious the Snyder fans were and how that ended up working in their favor despite there being almost no logical reason for why it should have. I still think all it'll accomplish is taking a movie that was already shit and reintroducing everything that made the previous movies even shittier. But hey. They spoke up, never stopped speaking up, and got their way in the end.

    Sometimes pushiness works. Sometimes it doesn't. As long as nobody's straight up insulting or threatening the people they're being pushy with or doing anything else that might take it way too far, I can't really say I see THAT big a problem. If you're a fan of something and wanna see it. Do what you gotta do (within reason) to be heard. Hell it's already gotten people another Super Sons book *shrug*
    Touche. Those jackasses really cemented toxicity as a totally valid way to get what you want and completed social media’s transformation into utter cancer. Still you should be petitioning the editors over the writers, editorial wanting aged up Jon is why it’s sticking. Either way I wish we could get some better questions about PKJ and how he sees/approaches Superman.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Listened to it, there's not a ton of new information but still some stuff worth noting:

    * He liked the Superman & Lois pilot, its take on Clark was more fallible than he prefers but he gets what it was going for and liked Hoechlin.

    * The characters in House of El weren't the only members of the family around in that time (with a note we might recognize some others still around), with Brandon for instance having a brother we didn't see, but they're off doing their own things and so weren't there for the showdown with the Red King. Interestingly, asked if Jon was around in this time he mentioned he couldn't say that 'yet', and made clear there were plans coming up for Jon that would forbid de-aging him even if that was something he wanted to do.

    * Edgar Watters was based on multiple real-life sources, primarily civil rights activist Medgar Evers, as well as a deceased homeless friend of Johnson's who was herself the real 'Sarge'.

    * The new 'Linearverse' from Generations won't be in his run.

    * The Golden Age is in part his attempt at a Kirbyesque space adventure.

    * We're going to see, not as an abstract future potential but in the present, Jon do something power-wise that Clark can't, apparently as an at least partial realization of Bruce's theory in Tomasi's run that Jon would grow up to be stronger than his dad.

    * He's doing something else at DC right now that he can't talk about yet.
    Interesting that he saw Hoechlin as more flawed than he prefers, wonder what his ideal is?

    Hope we learn what the plans for Jon are soon. It seems certain they’re tied to PKJ handing off one of the mainline books but I do wonder if Jon would get another separate book like how Jace Fox is getting a The Next Batman book. Also proof that petitioning him isn’t going to work. That plan for Jon gets announced and fails, then maybe they’ll think about deaging him.

    Guessing he didn’t say if that other thing was Superman related? Originally he was brought on to build a cosmic line for 5G, wonder if DC still wants to do that?
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  2. #1142
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Listened to it, there's not a ton of new information but still some stuff worth noting:

    * He liked the Superman & Lois pilot, its take on Clark was more fallible than he prefers but he gets what it was going for and liked Hoechlin.

    * The characters in House of El weren't the only members of the family around in that time (with a note we might recognize some others still around), with Brandon for instance having a brother we didn't see, but they're off doing their own things and so weren't there for the showdown with the Red King. Interestingly, asked if Jon was around in this time he mentioned he couldn't say that 'yet', and made clear there were plans coming up for Jon that would forbid de-aging him even if that was something he wanted to do.

    * Edgar Watters was based on multiple real-life sources, primarily civil rights activist Medgar Evers, as well as a deceased homeless friend of Johnson's who was herself the real 'Sarge'.

    * The new 'Linearverse' from Generations won't be in his run.

    * The Golden Age is in part his attempt at a Kirbyesque space adventure.

    * We're going to see, not as an abstract future potential but in the present, Jon do something power-wise that Clark can't, apparently as an at least partial realization of Bruce's theory in Tomasi's run that Jon would grow up to be stronger than his dad.


    * He's doing something else at DC right now that he can't talk about yet.
    BOOOOO!

    Jon's more interesting if his half-human DNA weakens him physically and forces him to find different solutions than his dad. This reeks of the kind of HUMANS DA BEST shit that leads to Batgod. Never liked it.

  3. #1143
    Astonishing Member Dispenser Of Truth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Looks like Doc Shaner is doing something for Superman if Iím understanding the tweet correctly, unless itís just a personal piece.

    https://twitter.com/docshaner/status...274770950?s=21

    I wonder if itís related to the Tom King Superman project thatís coming?
    Could be a simple promo image, could be a variant cover, could be a Red & Blue story. Feels a bit early for it to be relating to King's project with as much of Strange Adventures as there is left, but who knows?

    Well, other than Tom King and Doc Shaner and anyone else who would be involved with said project on a creative or corporate level, I mean.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Interesting that he saw Hoechlin as more flawed than he prefers, wonder what his ideal is?
    Reeve, unsurprisingly; his specific note was he wasn't onboard with the idea of Clark lying to his kids for that long, and talked some about how coming in post-Truth he's having a hard time reconciling his idea of the character's nobility with a take putting that genie back in the bottle.
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  4. #1144
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Wonder how he feels about Reeve Superman wiping Lois’ memory at the end of Superman 2 then. See these are the kinds of questions I’d want someone to ask him!

    Also yes Clark is a dick for lying, but that contradiction between the nobility and the deception is an attraction to me, not a drawback. Cool with seeing PKJ continue to explore an outed Clark though, especially with Venditti to give us “classic Supes” (with Reeve no less!) in Superman ‘78.
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  5. #1145
    Obsessed & Compelled Bored at 3:00AM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    Lmao damnit you quoted me before I had time to edit my response into a less hostile tone. On one hand I can sympathize with them, God knows I can rant all day about Zack Snyder or Injustice, but on the other hand itís not happening in the short term future, so constantly badgering him isnít going to change anything. Something like that would need to be approved by the higher-ups anyway, particularly since thereís probably another creative team who are already working on the Superman book with Jon as Superman.

    And itís annoying because thereís all these questions I wish would get asked of PKJ that could hint at what his plans are, but instead itís just screeching about Jon.
    It's a tricky thing, though, because fans get mixed messages about the effectiveness of their persistent harping about what they don't like.

    Would Hal Jordan had been redeemed and brought back to life if fans (like myself) hadn't been hammering DC about it for nearly a decade? Or was it simply a matter of Didio replacing Carlin? I think it was more the latter myself, but I can certainly understand how fans could think it was their persistence being rewarded. Same goes for Wally West fans, but in reverse.

    Would JJ Abrams have been brought back to reverse course on what Rian Johnson did with Last Jedi had the fan outrage been less vocal? I personally enjoyed the Last Jedi, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that the relentlessly harping that certain fans did about that film didn't have an impact in Kathleen Kennedy bringing in Abrams to try to "fix" what Johnson had done.

    Same goes for Zack Snyder's cut of Justice League. Can anyone seriously argue that the often annoying insistence of those fans didn't play a significant part in that film getting re-made the way Snyder intended?

    As much as I despise the toxicity of modern fandom, I have to admit that is has worked, or has at least helped in certain instances.

    So, while, yes, I too am equally annoyed by Jon fans forever pestering creators about de-aging Jon (which, like with Hal, I also want to see happen), I can also see how they could think this will work.

  6. #1146
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    BOOOOO!

    Jon's more interesting if his half-human DNA weakens him physically and forces him to find different solutions than his dad. This reeks of the kind of HUMANS DA BEST shit that leads to Batgod. Never liked it.
    Alternate solutions can lead to him being powerful as well,You know.He can be a tech hero for all intents and still be more powerful.The power creep always happens.Everyone wants their hero to be able to take on anything and empathise with the struggle.They want to feel the improvement in themselves,the changes,the progress..etc.The problem isn't that batman is more powerful than superman for me.It's they are lieing about it.They keep shoving batman as the underdog to viewers and readers.When he ain't.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 02-26-2021 at 02:53 AM.
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  7. #1147
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Alternate solutions can lead to him being powerful as well,You know.He can be a tech hero for all intents and still be more powerful.The power creep always happens.Everyone wants their hero to be able to take on anything and empathise with the struggle.They want to feel the improvement in themselves,the changes,the progress..etc.The problem isn't that batman is more powerful than superman for me.It's they are lieing about it.They keep shoving batman as the underdog to viewers and readers.When he ain't.
    Sure, Jon should be as good a Superman as his dad, but his powers themselves surpassing him sucks. He's half Kryptonian. If it was ANY other race in DC, they wouldn't even think of pushing Jon as superior to his father because he's half Kryptonian, but we cannot fathom that human DNA would actually weaken someone because how dare we not be the best. If Jon was half Tamaranian, I promise he would be unique but not as strong as his father. And yet, here we are. This basically lends credence to the idea that Kryptonian DNA overwrites human DNA because Lois literally contributed nothing to him, not even human frailty in physicality. It's embarrassing that we can't even admit our flaws in a fictional universe.

    What's the point of specifying he's going to be unique if he can just solve all his problems in exactly the same way as his father but easier?
    Last edited by Robanker; 02-26-2021 at 03:27 AM.

  8. #1148
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Sure, Jon should be as good a Superman as his dad, but his powers themselves surpassing him sucks. He's half Kryptonian. If it was ANY other race in DC, they wouldn't even think of pushing Jon as superior to his father because he's half Kryptonian, but we cannot fathom that human DNA would actually weaken someone because how dare we not be the best. If Jon was half Tamaranian, I promise he would be unique but not as strong as his father. And yet, here we are. This basically lends credence to the idea that Kryptonian DNA overwrites human DNA because Lois literally contibuted nothing to him, not even human frailty in physicality.
    And i am for jon having different powerset and having different way of it being presented(For me,batman's shtick is also a power.So i include that).I liked the powerranger thing in future state legion book.It ain't because jon is half human that he beats superman.It's classic legacy,wally beat barry,gohan beats goku,deku/allmight,...etc.It's one generation surpassing the previous one.It's a standard troupe.did you read house of el?Clark is a legend.And as a legend,there is theme of surpassing it.Heck!the entire thing ends with clark asking the red king to do things he could only dream of.
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  9. #1149
    Extraordinary Member Robanker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    And i am for jon having different powerset and having different way of it being presented(For me,batman's shtick is also a power.So i include that).I liked the powerranger thing in future state legion book.It ain't because jon is half human that he beats superman.It's classic legacy,wally beat barry,gohan beats goku,deku/allmight,...etc.It's one generation surpassing the previous one.It's a standard troupe.did you read house of el?Clark is a legend.And as a legend,there is theme of surpassing it.Heck!the entire thing ends with clark asking the red king to do things he could only dream of.
    Part of that bit with the Red King is Clark being humble.

    But here's the thing: the speed force isn't something as hard-coded as biological constraints. Jon's surpassing Clark as Superman can be okay, but if it's just AYY YO YER POWERS ARE STRONGER THAN PA AIN'T IT GRAND then Jon is a useless clone character. It sucked about Gohan and it sucks here.

  10. #1150
    Incredible Member witchboy's Avatar
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    It is ridiculous for Jon's human DNA to make him more powerful than Clark.
    I do think forcing Jon to be more creative with the power he is would be more interesting than heaping inexplicable more power onto him.

  11. #1151
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I never saw it as being half human that could make Jon stronger, I see it as the fact that he was naturally born on Earth. Sure Clark was a baby when he came to Earth, but he was still born on Krypton and had to adapt to earth's yellow sun where as Jon has always been around Earth's sun.
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  12. #1152
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    This crow tastes good, Superlad. What did you put in it for me?

    You called it.
    Well I don't get to make it often, but when I do I make sure to add a spoon full of borderline obsession mixed generously with free time I don't actually have. Gives it that kick you're tasting.

    But I think even though I may be more or less on it with the young woman and the dude, I may actually be off in terms of them being hybrids. They may actually be part of that new race PKJ said he was introducing. In an interview he said that their were twin characters that were mixed with the El bloodline and a new race he's creating. The only twins in the whole book are Jon's descendants, so chances are it's them, and the young lady and mohawk dude from 1031 is part of that race.

    I noticed that Khan-El didn't seem to have any extra powers outside of strength, flight, and durability, so maybe they're PKJ sort of doing a new take on Daxamites, and their Kryptonian link is that they're descendants from Kryptonians a long time ago? Daxamites are now a thing that don't actually exist anymore in the DCU especially now that the character they were created to explain is now Kryptonian and part of the El line.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    Part of that bit with the Red King is Clark being humble.

    But here's the thing: the speed force isn't something as hard-coded as biological constraints. Jon's surpassing Clark as Superman can be okay, but if it's just AYY YO YER POWERS ARE STRONGER THAN PA AIN'T IT GRAND then Jon is a useless clone character. It sucked about Gohan and it sucks here.
    So, I'm in the fitness and physical therapy field. It's basically been my life, so I tend to look at things through that filter sometimes. In this case, and based on what we've seen before, Jon being half human and that making him more powerful may honestly just be a biological defect that's good in this context. Like, if you've ever seen Naruto or My Hero Academia, there's this technically made up but somewhat based on a real science idea that the human body limits itself from using 100% of its potential out put for fear of harming itself. As I recall, Jon's solar flare was "broken" because he lacked the Kryptonian gene that limited it and kept it from overpowering him, thus making it far and away more powerful than Clark's could ever be. Could the same be true about other aspects of Jon's biology? Like how some people lack the gene that tells them to stop growing at a certain age, and they end up being taller than anyone else in their whole bloodline. So while I doubt there's going to be an instance of Jon punching so hard he breaks his own bone, this may be a situation where he can push powers further or harder than his dad ever could, or he may get a "form" or state of being that lets him push harder for a period of time (again, if you've seen Naruto or My Hero), or he may get an all together new power that's does things Clark can't accomplish.

    The idea in most instances of this is to look at the aspects that make us as people imperfect, and use that as a twist of fate to be just what makes us stand even taller than the unknowable things.

    Hell, we may be barking up the wrong tree here, and the reason Jon has it in him to be more powerful is because all of the strange shit surrounding his birth, his growing up, and him being a "man out of time" has rubbed off on him and left him physically changed in ways outside of being Kryptonian or human really factor in.

    ___________

    In PKJ's story in Infinite Frontier, we now know that it's going to be about Jon and his strange birth and life, and god-Wonder Woman will be talking about how strange a being he is. And we also know that Jon's going to be tasked with getting his dad out of an alternate dimension in Golden age. He may have budding reality altering powers? He may unintentionally tap into them to save his dad?

    PKJ even said that it's a spoiler for his run to say if Jon is still around in the 31st century. That might be cause by adulthood he's basically DC's Franklin Richards and is off helping the multiverse or something? PKJ brining Convergence and pre and post reborn back up is kind of opening things up for the reason behind Jon's greater power to go beyond biology. Like how Franklin himself isn't powerful because his dad can stretch and his mom turns invisible, but rather because of the very specific way he was born.

    Reminds me of PKJ's hybrid character from Last God. He's a character that has his father's strength and the potential for his mom's people's powers, but ultimately it's outside divine powers that are greater than either of his parents genes that make him one of the three strongest beings in that story. And the whole thing is built on a character saying to him "be greater than your father". So there's a similarity and pattern in sensibilities here.

    Edit: That would also explain why his descendants don't get similar power. The specific circumstances of his birth and life aren't something that have to be imprinted on his DNA and passed on, but rather just what they are, unique to him. His kids and descendants would still get Kryptonian and whatever else powers though since those are genetic.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 02-26-2021 at 09:28 AM.
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  13. #1153
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    I like Jon to be very powerful ... I think it would be interesting to make Jon a Franklin Richards of the DC .... mixing human DNA with kryptonian should be the reason for this mess of powers . making the boy access powers that no one imagines .. I wasn't interested in an old Jon, but I want to see a powerful Jon even if this is old Jon .now I'm curious what DC will do with Jon and his powers
    Last edited by Superfamily; 02-26-2021 at 08:27 AM.

  14. #1154
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

    - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

  15. #1155
    Moderator Frontier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dispenser Of Truth View Post
    Reeve, unsurprisingly; his specific note was he wasn't onboard with the idea of Clark lying to his kids for that long, and talked some about how coming in post-Truth he's having a hard time reconciling his idea of the character's nobility with a take putting that genie back in the bottle.
    He doesn't really seem to be big into the Clark Kent as a secret identity thing.

    Which I guess helps when he seems to be focusing on Clark as Superman 100% of the time in his run.

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