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  1. #1816
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    This is also untrue. A lot of people enjoy young Jon and the idea of a child World's Finest. I know I've lent out trades to people who don't normally read comics because they think it sounded fun based on "Superman and Batman's kids get into trouble going on adventures."

    Across every discussion of comics that I frequent (here, Reddit and others), child Jon was generally beloved unless people just didn't care for Superman having a child to begin with.
    Teen Jon has fans who only like him to spite real Jon fans

    That isn’t a sustainable character in the long term

    Son of Kal el won’t make it pass the 12th issue...just like legion

  2. #1817
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kryptonian View Post
    Teen Jon has fans who only like him to spite real Jon fans
    I mean...that is true. I've definitely seen some of that. But, as you can see from this thread alone, there are also people who are either genuinely fond of or even prefer teen Jon, or just fond of Jon enough to not care what age he is.

    Honestly I kinda envy the latter. I love the character but I'm willing to admit that part of the reason was because of how unique it was to have a hero his age. The age shouldn't be a deal breaker when you really love a character but...it is lol

    So yeah. I hate this. And I'm probably always gonna hate it. And I'm probably always gonna bitch about it. But I can't get mad at the folks who are on board.

    Honestly, I would have been okay if they aged him up but like...not as drastically. I'd have accepted like 13-14. Like Damian's age. Something where being older matters but he's still kind of a kid. But this was just too sudden and too dramatic for me to get behind.
    Last edited by Blue22; 06-13-2021 at 10:21 AM.

  3. #1818
    Black Belt in Bad Ideas Robanker's Avatar
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    I'm one of those fans who just generally loves Jon, but I do prefer when he was a cheerful kid because there's a dearth of those in the DCU right now and I prefer Clark as Superman.

    I never wanted him to be a child forever, I'd be fine if he was a teen in ten years or something (and dragged the Batbrat along with him) but we just didn't get there in a manner that was fun or particularly interesting.

    Jon in the Legion? I love that idea! I like that all the Els went to the future like some summer camp in their teen years and that was their Summer of, well, maybe love but definitely adventure. But throwing out Clark's history with them sucks big time.

    The biggest problem with Jon wasn't the age up, it's that everyone's narrative had to shift to give him something. Rather than use the age up to tell his story, they used it to retell other people's stories with Jon in that spot. I think that's the biggest problem. You guys who didn't like the age up, I don't know if all of you would have been swayed but I feel many would had they gone and did unique things with Jon that made the trade worthwhile.

    As it is, I like the kid a lot, but I do feel there's a mountain of missed opportunities in how we got to where we are.

  4. #1819
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm one of those fans who just generally loves Jon, but I do prefer when he was a cheerful kid because there's a dearth of those in the DCU right now and I prefer Clark as Superman.

    I never wanted him to be a child forever, I'd be fine if he was a teen in ten years or something (and dragged the Batbrat along with him) but we just didn't get there in a manner that was fun or particularly interesting.

    Jon in the Legion? I love that idea! I like that all the Els went to the future like some summer camp in their teen years and that was their Summer of, well, maybe love but definitely adventure. But throwing out Clark's history with them sucks big time.

    The biggest problem with Jon wasn't the age up, it's that everyone's narrative had to shift to give him something. Rather than use the age up to tell his story, they used it to retell other people's stories with Jon in that spot. I think that's the biggest problem. You guys who didn't like the age up, I don't know if all of you would have been swayed but I feel many would had they gone and did unique things with Jon that made the trade worthwhile.

    As it is, I like the kid a lot, but I do feel there's a mountain of missed opportunities in how we got to where we are.
    You worded my thoughts exactly. Unlike other people, for all of my frustration over the things that are being screwed up with Superman and Jon, I've exhausted all energies to voice them. I love Jon, kid version, teen it doesn't really matter but it's like they're piling on the mistakes instead of fixing them and the fact that it's messing up with Clark has made me rather sour to this new direction. I still love the character of Jon but I've never been happy with him siphoning much of Clark's things and then marketing them as Jon's when they are not. It turns Jon into a sort of pretender and not much his own man. It's going to be a while before I have enthusiasm for the Super books again, here's hoping they don't kill my love for Jon as a whole by continuing the trend of taking away from Clark to make Jon the new "Clark".

  5. #1820
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Yeah I don’t particularly care what age Jon is, to me he’s still the fun loving character I know but taller now. Not to mention I have an interest when it comes to the new in terms of dc universe (Yara, Jace, Jo, Jon, Kaldur, Levi, and etc).
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  6. #1821
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    I'd be in that boat if we had gotten more with Jon as a kid. I never wanted him or Damian to be kids forever (in fact I'd have been perfectly fine if Damian was the one who aged up instead). But there are just too many missed opportunities with Jon now for me to actually care where his story goes anymore. The reasons I became interested in him in the first place are gone. He lived it all out, off panel.

    Like I've said before (in this very thread I think) part of what made Jon such a unique draw for me was that he was an opportunity to see a character grow from a child to a teen/adult in the unique world that he would have grown up in. The same way the original five X-Men, or Spider-man, or the Runaways, or Franklin Richards started out as kids and young teens, and we got to see them grow and change over the years and how being child heroes changed them and shaped the kinds of adults they became. There was so much about him as a character that I was looking forward to seeing over time but, instead, DC just kinda....skipped over all the good stuff so they could get their instant gratification Superbro with no qualities that I couldn't get from other, better characters.

    I would have accepted, even welcomed, an older Jon later. When he's had some more time to grow and develop into somebody who would hopefully be more than just "Superman but hip and younger". But now when I look at him all I see is a bunch of missed opportunities and absolutely nothing to make up for it. He's not unique anymore. He's not really fun to read anymore. Now seeing him just...honestly makes me kinda sad. Because he was one of the main reasons I started reading Non-Batman DC comics again . So the fact that I can't really bring myself to be excited about anything he does anymore is just...ugh. So depressing.

    All the other new generation heroes, I'm super pumped for. I love Yara, Jo, and Kaldur (even if I prefer the Young Justice version of him). But Jon....meh. That's all he is now....meh.
    Last edited by Blue22; 06-13-2021 at 12:03 PM.

  7. #1822
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    I don't know, I can't say I'm 100% please but I feel like I have had good Jon stories with the Superman post convergence series, Rebirth Tomasi run, the Super Son ongoing and the two mini's that came after, and even a bit of DCeased. Maybe it's because I just feel that I have no true control over anything DC does so I may as well find what I enjoy with what they give me instead of just constantly hoping for something else, otherwise I may never truly be happy with a hobby I enjoy.

    By they way....I want Jon to run into that teenage Doomsday last seen in Red Hood, I want to see what happens if that were to occur.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  8. #1823
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    Regardless of what's going on with Jon, I'm excited about the direction PKJ's taking Clark (apparently some sort of space liberator defending what may or may not be another legacy of Krypton). Yeah, I'm aware a lot of that comes from DC wanting to take him (and presumably Kon, too) away to build Jon into what they want him to be (same way they previously brought back Lor-Zod as Jon's evil counterpart so he couldn't even potentially interfere with the narrative they wanted out of Jon as Superman's (only) Son), but I'm choosing to see this as a Grayson style position where an editorial mandate that clearly doesn't have a character in mind can still lead to great stories under the right hands.

  9. #1824
    Astonishing Member Blue22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sifighter View Post
    I don't know, I can't say I'm 100% please but I feel like I have had good Jon stories with the Superman post convergence series, Rebirth Tomasi run, the Super Son ongoing and the two mini's that came after, and even a bit of DCeased. Maybe it's because I just feel that I have no true control over anything DC does so I may as well find what I enjoy with what they give me instead of just constantly hoping for something else, otherwise I may never truly be happy with a hobby I enjoy.
    Yeah...I typically have that attitude too. I hated One More Day but I still followed Spider-man. I hated when Gert died, but I still read and enjoyed Runaways (and now she's back! Yay!). I'm not fond of Nico and Karolina's relationship but....again, I still read and enjoy Runaways. I'm not overly fond of the changes brought on by Hickman's era of X-Men books but I still mostly read and enjoy them. I can keep going honestly. I can name a bunch of status quo changes that I didn't approve of but still kept reading and even finding things to enjoy out of them.

    But...there's just something about what's going on with Jon that keeps me from doing that. I don't know what makes his situation so different. None of those other things ever made me completely "Nope" out of future books. But something about this one just pisses me off and instills in me a sense of dread that I haven't felt since Damian's death, everything about the New 52 Teen Titans, and...well....the New 52 in general.
    Last edited by Blue22; 06-13-2021 at 12:29 PM.

  10. #1825
    Extraordinary Member sifighter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    Regardless of what's going on with Jon, I'm excited about the direction PKJ's taking Clark (apparently some sort of space liberator defending what may or may not be another legacy of Krypton). Yeah, I'm aware a lot of that comes from DC wanting to take him (and presumably Kon, too) away to build Jon into what they want him to be (same way they previously brought back Lor-Zod as Jon's evil counterpart so he couldn't even potentially interfere with the narrative they wanted out of Jon as Superman's (only) Son), but I'm choosing to see this as a Grayson style position where an editorial mandate that clearly doesn't have a character in mind can still lead to great stories under the right hands.
    Oh yeah the War World stuff looks great, in two issues Johnson has really built an awesome sci-fi world. Can't wait to see how he incorporates the Authority.
    "It's fun and it's cool, so that's all that matters. It's what comics are for, Duh."
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  11. #1826
    Fantastic Member The Frog Bros's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    I assume that Clark’s identity being revealed is part of the “evolution” as well since they keep outing him. Not much has been done with that yet, but I’m interested in what the idea behind it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    That is actually another point that PKJ mentioned when he talked about the evolution of the character. I do think it fits within that same evolution and works with the character's progression. I would not be surprised to see it become a plot point on Superman and Lois at some point in the future - like a Season 5 or 6 storyline.
    The ID reveal was one of the things I kind of liked in the Bendis run. I also liked how there were stories that dealt with the immediate aftermath, like how it affected everyone at the planet (which also led to a pretty cool moment between Clark and Lombard). This has a lot of storytelling possibilities that I was excited for others to explore, so I'd love to see some stuff in the PKJ run.

    Or, if they need Clark to go undercover, there's always Chaz, ha.
    "There is nothing quite so perfect as the exact way in which comics combine the word and image." --Alan Moore
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  12. #1827
    Extraordinary Member DragonPiece's Avatar
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    Do you guys think they may relaunch action comics after the event in september/october? That'd be a good way to bring new readers on board than keep the book in the 1,000's when a lot of people aren't curently buying the title anyways.

  13. #1828
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robanker View Post
    I'm one of those fans who just generally loves Jon, but I do prefer when he was a cheerful kid because there's a dearth of those in the DCU right now and I prefer Clark as Superman.
    That's where the conflict comes in..Superman is stuck with clark and his routines...I want different things.And i believe,they can still expand on jon's history in earth-3,travels with jor el and his adventures in legion.I don't view clark kent as protagonist material.He is the wise old man archetype at best..I like the kid version...But,i want a superman i can root for as well..
    "I swear to devote my life to the destruction of piracy, greed, cruelty and injustice! And my sons, and their sons, shall follow me!"

  14. #1829
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    God I can’t wait for Taylor’s Superman series to launch so all the complaining about Jon can move over to the SSOKE thread. It will serve as a nice compliment to me no doubt complaining about everything else Taylor does, and free up this thread to actually be about what Clark is doing.
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    Do you guys think they may relaunch action comics after the event in september/october? That'd be a good way to bring new readers on board than keep the book in the 1,000's when a lot of people aren't curently buying the title anyways.
    Hm I don’t know. I think if Action and Tec were to get relaunched again it would probably be after the 1050th issue of each and would be part of a linewide relaunch. Still there’s always a chance.
    Last edited by Vordan; 06-14-2021 at 12:13 AM.
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  15. #1830
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    PKJ’s action comics run is doomed from the start, it needs another rebirth style rejection of the status quo to be successful, they need to deage Jon...put the identity back in the bottle and pretend that the past two years never happened in order to regain their dignity at this point


    If people don’t care now about Clark the space Conan without his secret identity now, They aren’t going to suddenly care next month, people have given it a chance and have walked away.


    Just like people aren’t going to read a book about a reviled version of a character that hasn’t been compelling since his age up when he replaces his more popular dad

    All of this can be traced to bendis

    PKJ and Tom Taylor choose to continue bendis’s rejected status quo...they choose to be allergic to money...now they are both going to pay the price with low sales.
    Last edited by kryptonian; 06-14-2021 at 01:51 AM.

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