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  1. #2371
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    To be honest, they spent time together for entire Tomasi run, it's not like they didn't have a lot of moments together, and they will have more.

  2. #2372
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    If DC likes Clark being a dad, they sure don't let Clark and Jon spend much time together.
    First Jon is in space with Jor-El (I will never get over how badly Lois and Clark were written to allow that), then Jon is in the future, now Clark is going off to space. They're only allowed to occasionally see each other in passing for years now.
    I donít know what Bendis run you were reading but there were six issues of Superman where Jon was away with Jor El. Then he came back and was with Clark for about 12 issues? in the House of El arc and the follow up issues. Jon went with the Legion, and they didnít appear together for maybe another 6 months or so? But then Jon came back for the House of Kent arc of Action. So Iím not sure how that can be ďin passingĒ for years.

  3. #2373
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quinlan58 View Post
    As someone who is very much enjoying this run, I agree with this sentiment (if not necessarily applied in this way to this statement). DC's continuous refusal to acknowledge the changes in Jon's life brought on by the age-up (beyond him being older and thus ready to be Superman), by insisting that "him and Damian still have the same age gap", or that "Clark and Lois were great enough parents that Jon wasn't affected by what happened to him", isn't just stupid, but they are neglecting potential storytelling opportunities there (which even the Robin book is taking advantage of apparently, by saying all of Damian's friends have left him or something like that). They're insisting on framing the age-up as "oh, kids grew up so fast" instead of the far more accurate "holy shit, my son got robbed of his childhood".

    And that's all I'll say about Jon. Not interested enough in him for a long discussion (haven't been that interested in him since the Black Dawn/Revenge arcs back in Rebirth, to be honest) and I know those can go on for pages after pages in this forum.
    The reason they’re not acknowledging it is because it’s a bizarre comic book trope that is completely unrelatable to readers and only hardcore continuity nerds obsess over it. Also the point of the age up was so Jon could be in position to take over, so they’re doing Superman stories with him over stories about him angsting over his time in a volcano. To do otherwise would detract from the point of Jon being Superman. Honestly if you’re someone who is enjoying Jon being Superman, you might as well just ignore everything Bendis did to get him there and treat Taylor’s run as the soft reboot it clearly is meant to be taken as. Obsessing over continuity is something DC needs to do less of.
    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I see that certain person was finally banned for his obnoxious behaviour, but its funny that I agree with his last post here.
    Yes I was amused that I agreed with him on something as well, but he’ll likely be back. He was banned as kryptonian and came back with that second account I’m sure he’ll make a third.
    Quote Originally Posted by The World View Post
    Christ almighty this is going to be really boring I can already tell. Expect a bunch of finger wagging and Superman having wit or sense of fun what so ever. Morrison is one of the few modern writers that writes a fun Superman, you should be trying to align your Superman to theirs as much as possible. And I have to say for every person I've seen say they write their Superman like the Chris Reeve Superman not once have I seen any of them have their interpretation eat dog food, NOT ONE.
    Won’t be a lot of fun on Warworld but plenty of action and drama to be had there I’m sure. Edit: whoops got you and Myskin confused. Personally this is the most enjoyable Action has been since Pak, I can’t wait to go to Warworld.
    Quote Originally Posted by witchboy View Post
    If DC likes Clark being a dad, they sure don't let Clark and Jon spend much time together.
    First Jon is in space with Jor-El (I will never get over how badly Lois and Clark were written to allow that), then Jon is in the future, now Clark is going off to space. They're only allowed to occasionally see each other in passing for years now.
    If anything he and Clark have spent too much time together. Jon was co-protagonist under Tomasi and Bendis, he was with Clark for the Unity Saga and the end of Bendis Action. This is the first time the two of them will be separate for an extended period of time.
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  4. #2374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The reason they’re not acknowledging it is because it’s a bizarre comic book trope that is completely unrelatable to readers and only hardcore continuity nerds obsess over it. Also the point of the age up was so Jon could be in position to take over, so they’re doing Superman stories with him over stories about him angsting over his time in a volcano. To do otherwise would detract from the point of Jon being Superman. Honestly if you’re someone who is enjoying Jon being Superman, you might as well just ignore everything Bendis did to get him there and treat Taylor’s run as the soft reboot it clearly is meant to be taken as. Obsessing over continuity is something DC needs to do less of.
    The reason they're not acknowledging it is because it's contradictory to how they want Jon to be written. Editorial clearly wants him to be written as a heroic Superman like figure. How they chose to age him up creates issues because logically, with the experiences that Jon has had, he should not be acting that way. Writers clearly realized this which is why they dance around it so much. This makes Jonathan a very awkward character to write. It's a very damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Acknowledging that he was trapped and abused on another world for 7 years would contradict how he is currently written but refusing to talk about it just means that a significant part of his lifetime and his formative years is just a black box that you can't draw on to develop the character. Think of how much you changed as a person from when you were 10 to when you were 17, this is a vital time in someone's life where they develop their interests, motivations, goals, personality traits, etc. It's why Jonathan is written so blandly and similar to his dad, writers can only use his character traits from when he was 10 or just lifting personality from his parents.

    Also, it is not only hardcore continuity nerds who do and should care about a character's continuity. Characters have to have some sort of basic continuity and consistency in order for them to work as characters. Jon's backstory is not a trivial fact that was established twenty years ago that a writer ignored because it contradicted a story they were trying to tell. Jon's age up is a fundamental aspect of his character now that is currently inseparable from him and was established very recently. It shouldn't be on the readers to ignore the poor creative decisions that DC makes. Like, even if you approve of the age up and more power to you if you do, you have to admit that the way they went about it was very poorly planned. They knew they wanted Jon to be written in a specific way and then approved a story where he was trapped in another dimension for 7 years. That's really stupid and it is worth pointing that out because these things indicate what DC's priorities are and how it affects their storytelling decisions.

    EDIT: I should note that this doesn't necessarily mean that Taylor's run is bad or doomed to fail. It's just that he's working with a monumental handicap and if he's able to succeed despite that it's because he's a very talented writer who still managed to find something that connected with people. And also that people who dislike his run because of creative decisions made by previous writers and editors aren't necessarily wrong, those things still affect the current run and still matter. You can't expect people to just ignore it.
    Last edited by oddish1; 09-11-2021 at 11:07 PM.

  5. #2375
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oddish1 View Post
    The reason they're not acknowledging it is because it's contradictory to how they want Jon to be written. Editorial clearly wants him to be written as a heroic Superman like figure. How they chose to age him up creates issues because logically, with the experiences that Jon has had, he should not be acting that way. Writers clearly realized this which is why they dance around it so much. This makes Jonathan a very awkward character to write. It's a very damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Acknowledging that he was trapped and abused on another world for 7 years would contradict how he is currently written but refusing to talk about it just means that a significant part of his lifetime and his formative years is just a black box that you can't draw on to develop the character. Think of how much you changed as a person from when you were 10 to when you were 17, this is a vital time in someone's life where they develop their interests, motivations, goals, personality traits, etc. It's why Jonathan is written so blandly and similar to his dad, writers can only use his character traits from when he was 10 or just lifting personality from his parents.

    Also, it is not only hardcore continuity nerds who do and should care about a character's continuity. Characters have to have some sort of basic continuity and consistency in order for them to work as characters. Jon's backstory is not a trivial fact that was established twenty years ago that a writer ignored because it contradicted a story they were trying to tell. Jon's age up is a fundamental aspect of his character now that is currently inseparable from him and was established very recently. It shouldn't be on the readers to ignore the poor creative decisions that DC makes. Like, even if you approve of the age up and more power to you if you do, you have to admit that the way they went about it was very poorly planned. They knew they wanted Jon to be written in a specific way and then approved a story where he was trapped in another dimension for 7 years. That's really stupid and it is worth pointing that out because these things indicate what DC's priorities are and how it affects their storytelling decisions.

    EDIT: I should note that this doesn't necessarily mean that Taylor's run is bad or doomed to fail. It's just that he's working with a monumental handicap and if he's able to succeed despite that it's because he's a very talented writer who still managed to find something that connected with people. And also that people who dislike his run because of creative decisions made by previous writers and editors aren't necessarily wrong, those things still affect the current run and still matter. You can't expect people to just ignore it.
    1)You know i take real issues with people's insinuation that people that have been through abuse can't be heroic and upbeat...
    2)they can elaborate on jon's age up whenever they want and if any writer chooses to later on.
    3)Writers priority is setting aged up jon and his world right now.
    What makes jon like clark?if this jon is being written like clark.Then jon has never been anything other than clark-esque character to begin with.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 09-11-2021 at 11:31 PM.
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  6. #2376
    Ultimate Member Vordan's Avatar
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    The majority of people picking up and reading SSOKE right now don’t know about or care about the specifics of the age up. Jon's formative years are happening in the book right now, that’s the whole point of the new number 1. The events Jon will endure are what’s going to shape him into the kind of man he’ll be going forward.

    Jon’s “basic continuity” is that he’s Clark and Lois biological son, that’s the only thing that matters everything else is fluff. Jon’s been a continuity clusterf*** from Day 1, born in the midst of a convoluted ass event with Convergence, brought to the DCU where he was then folded into continuity in another event with Reborn. The only continuity of Jon so far that “matters” isn’t in specifics but general details like being friends with Damian the son of Batman.

    Here’s the thing: the people who are obsessed with the age up typically also want him to be deaged. They want everything to revolve around the volcano years for some reason, likely because they think that would be off putting and are hoping that if more people know about it, it will push people to demand it get undone. But the imprisonment doesn't matter. Yes it’s not “logical” but neither is the emotional reactions of the rest of the DC Universe to what they know. Gods are real as are souls, yet people don’t react to that knowledge in a “realistic” manner. The age up for Jon was a plot device nothing more. It’s not important to his character, just a way to get him from A to B, just like Clark getting zapped with special radiation is a plot device to make him look old, or how preptime god Batman somehow can’t get his wealth back.

    “Realism” is not a concern for storytelling at the Big 2 and never has been outside a few instances. Quite frankly the people still whining about it at this point is just eye rolling inducing. It’s patently obvious what you want: Jon being an emotional wreck because of his imprisonments so Clark goes back in time to rescue him and get his little boy back, teen Jon blips out of existence and the kid Jon returns for happy wholesome adventures on the farm or with Damian.

    That’s not happening. Not any time soon anyway. Clark should’ve been massively changed by getting beaten to death but he was the same old guy as ever when he returned. If he can die and come back and not fundamentally change, Jon can endure a period of captivity and come out the other side basically the same good kid. For those who can’t accept it, well, guess you should drop the character and move on.

    Either way take the Jon whining to the SSOKE or Jon Kent threads, this is the PKJ thread about Clark. I’ve got a big Mongul vs. Superman story to look forward to at least and given Jon isn’t even in Action anymore at least save the complaining for the thread dedicated to the book he’s actually in.
    Last edited by Vordan; 09-11-2021 at 11:53 PM.
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  7. #2377
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    The majority of people picking up and reading SSOKE right now don’t know about or care about the specifics of the age up. Jon's formative years are happening in the book right now, that’s the whole point of the new number 1. The events Jon will endure are what’s going to shape him into the kind of man he’ll be going forward.

    Jon’s “basic continuity” is that he’s Clark and Lois biological son, that’s the only thing that matters everything else is fluff. Jon’s been a continuity clusterf*** from Day 1, born in the midst of a convoluted ass event with Convergence, brought to the DCU where he was then folded into continuity in another event with Reborn. The only continuity of Jon so far that “matters” isn’t in specifics but general details like being friends with Damian the son of Batman.

    Here’s the thing: the people who are obsessed with the age up typically also want him to be deaged. They want everything to revolve around the volcano years for some reason, likely because they think that would be off putting and are hoping that if more people know about it, it will push people to demand it get undone. But the imprisonment doesn't matter. Yes it’s not “logical” but neither is the emotional reactions of the rest of the DC Universe to what they know. Gods are real as are souls, yet people don’t react to that knowledge in a “realistic” manner. The age up for Jon was a plot device nothing more. It’s not important to his character, just a way to get him from A to B, just like Clark getting zapped with special radiation is a plot device to make him look old, or how preptime god Batman somehow can’t get his wealth back.

    “Realism” is not a concern for storytelling at the Big 2 and never has been outside a few instances. Quite frankly the people still whining about it at this point is just eye rolling inducing. It’s patently obvious what you want: Jon being an emotional wreck because of his imprisonments so Clark goes back in time to rescue him and get his little boy back, teen Jon blips out of existence and the kid Jon returns for happy wholesome adventures on the farm or with Damian.

    That’s not happening. Not any time soon anyway. Clark should’ve been massively changed by getting beaten to death but he was the same old guy as ever when he returned. If he can die and come back and not fundamentally change, Jon can endure a period of captivity and come out the other side basically the same good kid. For those who can’t accept it, well, guess you should drop the character and move on.

    Either way take the Jon whining to the SSOKE or Jon Kent threads, this is the PKJ thread about Clark. I’ve got a big Mongul vs. Superman story to look forward to at least and given Jon isn’t even in Action anymore at least save the complaining for the thread dedicated to the book he’s actually in.
    I want Jon's time on Earth 3 to be revisited not so they can find some more convoluted way to de-age him so we can return to Tomasi's Rebirth era. I want it revisited because I want Jon to emerge as his own individual formed by his own experiences beyond being the son of Superman and Lois Lane. He can very much still be the hero who has hope even after going through what he did, I just just want that expanded and fleshed out as opposed to reducing it to a line or two. Build upon, add to the character, don't take away/slip things under the rug just because they are uncomfortable. Why do with Jon what has been done to Clark many times over just because people don't like certain directions. Yes, not everything written about these characters is going to satisfy everyone but at the very least don't obliterate opportunities for character growth just for a "clean" reset. Why do people have an aversion to making lemonade when we're given lemons. I wasn't happy with the age up because of how it was written but that doesn't mean I want to go back either. I don't want him to be a flat caricature of his folks.
    Last edited by rpmaluki; 09-12-2021 at 02:36 AM.

  8. #2378
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  9. #2379
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    "Superman and the surviving members of the Authority"

    So Superman doesn't die and get resurrected by Mongul. I assumed that was what the previous solicit hinted at, but maybe they're saving that for a later resurrection of whoever died in that initial fight (either as the triumphant moment of Superman making amends to those he failed or as a low point of Superman having to fight those same people). As for who died, obviously not Clark, also not Apollo and Midnighter, most likely not Natasha because that'd be too depressing, probably not Manchester Black because if you take him out then what's the point of this team? That leaves Enchantress, Lightray and OMAC. I'm assuming it's Enchantress or Lightray or both who die. They're both established as suicidal before joining the team so failing them would be as crushing a blow to Superman's morale as possible (plus Lightray's death would affect OMAC even more and generate tension, and she has the same name as a New God which seems relevant to this run).

    Superman finds another survivor of the lost Phaelosian race of Krypton, a scientist turned enslaved gladiator

    I'm assuming that's Byla, the storyteller from the Annual. Previously Lois mentioned that Kryptonian culture saw no distinction between arts and sciences anymore, so the storyteller carrying the legacy of his culture also being a scientist (Jor-El parallel?) sounds fitting.

    Glad to see Sampere back for the issue, though even considering how great he and PKJ are together, I'm not sure it's worth changing artists again if he's not staying past this.

    EDIT: A MARTIAN MANHUNTER BACK-UP? I'd still prefer an actual Super-verse character to have that back-up (c'mon, gimme something with Lois or Steel), but if you're going to have someone outside of the Super-verse, then Martian Manhunter is as good a choice as any other. Hopefully it's better than Tales of Metropolis or Midnighter (even if I enjoyed that one more than most).
    Last edited by Quinlan58; 09-17-2021 at 06:51 AM.

  10. #2380
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypo View Post
    Oh, it's happening. I didn't expect it so soon.


  11. #2381
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Does this mean supes is wearing the gladiator gear?
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  12. #2382
    Ultimate Member Last Son of Krypton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Does this mean supes is wearing the gladiator gear?
    I guess so. Maybe not yet but when Janin will join as artist of AC.

  13. #2383
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    I don't think they'll kill Lightray. She's a new character, gotta milk her while it's fresh. Enchantress on the other hand...

  14. #2384
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    I think Manchester Black (it'd be what the second or third time he was killed), Apollo, and OMAC are likely to be killed off. Probably tying into the time loop Midnighter gets stuck in.

    Apollo is too redundant with Superman. OMAC is too close in design to some video game character which I think Janlin acknowledged. So killing her off would appease the lawyers.
    Last edited by Yoda; 09-17-2021 at 02:09 PM.

  15. #2385
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    Quote Originally Posted by manwhohaseverything View Post
    Does this mean supes is wearing the gladiator gear?
    Yeah that variant cover is pretty boss, sword and all! Sweet!
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