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  1. #1486
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    Just to add some perspective to the discussion, there’s this old Dan Jurgens interview from before Rebirth.

    ”We sort of pitched this idea to Dan [Didio] of Lois having a baby. I always said that once we did that, there would be plenty of room for future stories. That if you’re going to introduce a child for Lois and Clark into the DC Universe—and by DC Universe, I mean all of DC, right—that becomes his potential, and it becomes something for tomorrow, and something that can mean something down the road.

    [...]

    “Jon is tomorrow. That’s what coming in the DC Universe[...] By the time it is said and done, I think what you’re going to see through those eight issues is this emergence of Jonathan Kent, and Jonathan Kent is going to be an important presence in the DC Universe going forward.”
    In hindsight and considering Jon’s trajectory it sounds like Jurgens pitched Jon as the potential next Superman, as it wouldn’t make sense otherwise for him to stress the character’s future importance in relation to the company. It’s not a Dick-Grayson-as-temporary-Batman kind of scenario. The kid is literally the man of tomorrow. Based on this I agree with Superlad that Jon was conceived as “Superman Jr./direct heir” than “adjacent Superboy”. I’d add that the age-up was was probably an inevitable and necessary part of his arc (even if the way it happened was poorly executed IMO).

    Further, in Jurgens’ Lois and Clark, we see a literal passing of the cape:



    Quote Originally Posted by Superlad93 View Post
    Totally agree. But I'll also add that Taylor is off my list because Nightwing was real, real not good.
    Considering how disliked current Jon is right now, a crowd-pleasing writer who already has fans’ goodwill might be what the character needs, otherwise I think Jon Superman is going to struggle. I’d guess that DC probably has a contingency plan to make Jon a kid again just in case, but personally I’d like to see him get a good shot at succeeding his concept.
    Last edited by oneveryfineday; 04-19-2021 at 09:46 PM.

  2. #1487
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue22 View Post
    My personal feelings on it.
    That's fair.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

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  3. #1488
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    https://twitter.com/phillipkjohnson/...156950028?s=21

    Unsurprisingly the two parter Hester opening was sort of a last minute addition, originally his run would’ve started with the Godwelski and Sampere arcs.
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  4. #1489
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Apart from any in-story concerns, rejecting the Superboy/Superman moniker and branding is a surefire way for a quick slide into irrelevancy for Jon. I think Nightwing and later Red Hood were really the only ones that have adapted. Tim, Conner and Donna Troy essentially lost all place and relevance once they dropped the legacy names. With comic fans in particular there is a huge issue as to what "counts" and once they lose those names they don't seem to "count" anymore.

    That's a practical consideration from a company POV though. Not storywise.
    I'm still somewhat baffled that Red Hood worked out. On paper entire idea sounds absurd and had lots of shitty writing attached yet it somehow works.

  5. #1490
    The Man Who Cannot Die manwhohaseverything's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I'm still somewhat baffled that Red Hood worked out. On paper entire idea sounds absurd and had lots of shitty writing attached yet it somehow works.
    People don't hold the convoluted comics history as the story of red hood.They get overall gist and idea behind redhood.The tragedy and the triple western-esque showdown aspect of batman,joker and red hood really pulls people in.If jon suceeds that would be how it's going to be, in alternate media atleast.He is the son of superman who became superman.It's that simple.
    Last edited by manwhohaseverything; 04-20-2021 at 01:34 AM.
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  6. #1491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    https://twitter.com/phillipkjohnson/...156950028?s=21

    Unsurprisingly the two parter Hester opening was sort of a last minute addition, originally his run would’ve started with the Godwelski and Sampere arcs.
    Yep, makes sense. At best they read like a prologue to the beginning of the run, at worst they kind of have a tacked on feel. Problem is/was, I think those issues would likely have felt rather odd and out of place anywhere else, so the best place to put them would be at the start as a precursor of things to come.
    "There is nothing quite so perfect as the exact way in which comics combine the word and image." --Alan Moore
    "Before it was a Bomb, the Bomb was an Idea. Superman, however, was a Faster, Stronger, Better Idea." --Grant Morrison

  7. #1492
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    Just to add some perspective to the discussion, there’s this old Dan Jurgens interview from before Rebirth.



    In hindsight and considering Jon’s trajectory it sounds like Jurgens pitched Jon as the potential next Superman, as it wouldn’t make sense otherwise for him to stress the character’s future importance in relation to the company. It’s not a Dick-Grayson-as-temporary-Batman kind of scenario. The kid is literally the man of tomorrow. Based on this I agree with Superlad that Jon was conceived as “Superman Jr./direct heir” than “adjacent Superboy”. I’d add that the age-up was was probably an inevitable and necessary part of his arc (even if the way it happened was poorly executed IMO).

    Further, in Jurgens’ Lois and Clark, we see a literal passing of the cape:





    Considering how disliked current Jon is right now, a crowd-pleasing writer who already has fans’ goodwill might be what the character needs, otherwise I think Jon Superman is going to struggle. I’d guess that DC probably has a contingency plan to make Jon a kid again just in case, but personally I’d like to see him get a good shot at succeeding his concept.
    I mean Man of Metropolis pretty much failed to my knowledge pretty sure that tells us what we need to know about how people feel as Jon being the main Superman, & that was pretty much the only version of Future State Jon liked all others were goodwill Clark. Deage him start fresh current Jon is just too "Fetch"!

  8. #1493
    Astonishing Member Journey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HsssH View Post
    I'm still somewhat baffled that Red Hood worked out. On paper entire idea sounds absurd and had lots of shitty writing attached yet it somehow works.
    Jason & Dick managed to become character of their own, Damien too for the most part I can't even say it's due to grittyness because Dick is hardly that, IDK what the writers did but it works, Tim Drake is pretty much a failure IMO as someone who was born in 99 everytime I see him paired with Titans I dislike it IMO it should be Dick cause the Teen Titans show so I don't like that for him, his backstory is uninteresting he's just a stalker nerd not that unique, he only has any clout due to the imaginary TimKon ship which will never happen so essentially he really has nothing going for him besides being a softer Jr Batman withnot even half the skill, Jon as he is now is on the verge of following the Tim path not the Jason, Dick, Damien path.

  9. #1494
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Journey View Post
    I mean Man of Metropolis pretty much failed to my knowledge pretty sure that tells us what we need to know about how people feel as Jon being the main Superman, & that was pretty much the only version of Future State Jon liked all others were goodwill Clark. Deage him start fresh current Jon is just too "Fetch"!
    It was the best selling Superman Future State book the first month (Superman/Wonder Woman was #2) and #2 behind House of El the second. There's no indication it was a failure at all.

  10. #1495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    It was the best selling Superman Future State book the first month (Superman/Wonder Woman was #2) and #2 behind House of El the second. There's no indication it was a failure at all.
    I’m glad House of El sold so well, I really would love to see more of that time period. Do you remember how the Superbooks sold overall relative to others? I’m guessing Batman and WW did better since Batman sells well always and Yara got a ton of attention online.
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  11. #1496
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    Damian on the variant cover of Superman #33. Anyone know when solicits are supposed to come out?


  12. #1497
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    Somehow my mind merged the topic titles of this and the topic above it. (Calvin Ellis aka President Superman Appreciation) into President John Kennedy taking over Superman books and for a second there I was really curious.

  13. #1498
    Astonishing Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vordan View Post
    I’m glad House of El sold so well, I really would love to see more of that time period. Do you remember how the Superbooks sold overall relative to others? I’m guessing Batman and WW did better since Batman sells well always and Yara got a ton of attention online.
    You can take all these numbers with a grain of salt since they seem to all be projections since there's no reporting of numbers anymore. But I pulled the list Last Son posted from the Future State thread. Looking at the links the Batman and Wonder Woman books were in the top ten. Death Metal was #1. I guess if you wanted to say it was a "failure" because it wasn't in the top 10 you could, but it seems a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Last Son of Krypton View Post
    Comichron did a projection of the Future State books sales:

    January 2021 Superman related books ranking

    14 - Future State Superman of Metropolis #1

    17 - Future State Superman Wonder Woman #1

    19 - Future State Superman Worlds of War #1

    23 - Future State Batman Superman #1

    27 - Future State Suicide Squad #1 (feat. Conner)

    28 - Future State Legion of Super-Heroes #1

    32 - Future State Kara Zor-El Superwoman #1

    34 - Legion of Super-Heroes #12

    35 - Future State Superman Vs Imperious Lex #1

    Source: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...2021-01DC.html

    February 2021 Superman related books ranking

    13 - Future State Superman House of El #1

    15 - Future State Superman of Metropolis #2

    17 - Future State Superman Worlds of War #2

    20 - Future State Superman Wonder Woman #2

    21 - Future State Batman Superman #2

    29 - Future State Legion of Super-Heroes #2

    30 - Future State Suicide Squad #2

    31 - Future State Superman Vs Imperious Lex #2

    33 - Future State Kara Zor-El Superwoman #2

    Source: https://www.comichron.com/monthlycom...021-02DC.htmlp

  14. #1499
    Extraordinary Member Vordan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    Damian on the variant cover of Superman #33. Anyone know when solicits are supposed to come out?

    Taylor is apparently announcing a new book tomorrow so I’d say tomorrow might be solicits day for DC.
    For when my rants on the forums just aren’t enough: https://thevindicativevordan.tumblr.com/

  15. #1500
    THE MARK OF MY DIGNITY Superlad93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneveryfineday View Post
    In hindsight and considering Jon’s trajectory it sounds like Jurgens pitched Jon as the potential next Superman, as it wouldn’t make sense otherwise for him to stress the character’s future importance in relation to the company. It’s not a Dick-Grayson-as-temporary-Batman kind of scenario. The kid is literally the man of tomorrow. Based on this I agree with Superlad that Jon was conceived as “Superman Jr./direct heir” than “adjacent Superboy”. I’d add that the age-up was was probably an inevitable and necessary part of his arc (even if the way it happened was poorly executed IMO).
    Yeah, I don't think DC or Jurgens ever once had the idea in there head that he'd go the way of Conner or even Kara. His creation was very, very deliberate. And him functionally becoming the main character of the Superman book during Rebirth wasn't random or an idea Tomasi came to them with. That was for sure by design, and Tomasi was picked because he could do what they needed. Being Clark "Superboy" all this time has just been a placeholder as far as I'm concerned because he was born Superman Jr.

    personally I’d like to see him get a good shot at succeeding his concept.
    Same. It's trying to do the impossible by giving Superman a Wally West in the 80s and 90s (down to the absurd power). That's just something you figure they don't try anymore with the Big 3, and least of all Superman.
    Last edited by Superlad93; 04-20-2021 at 04:05 PM.
    "Mark my words! This drill will open a hole in the universe. And that hole will become a path for those that follow after us. The dreams of those who have fallen. The hopes of those who will follow. Those two sets of dreams weave together into a double helix, drilling a path towards tomorrow. THAT's Tengen Toppa! THAT'S Gurren Lagann! MY DRILL IS THE DRILL THAT CREATES THE HEAVENS!"

    - The Digger

    We walk on the path to Secher Nbiw. Though hard fought, we walk the Golden Path.

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