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  1. #76
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gitagon View Post
    Patty's knowledge of Wonder Woman seems to come from the Carter show and the thing with shows like that is that feats were restricted by budget. Even then I still remember Linda's Wonder Woman having pretty impressive super speed sometimes.

    But with most writers who get to write WW in media, they don't really seem aware of her powers from the get go. It's like they just read the most recent issues and go from there. This is also what I attribute the inconsistencies of side characters as well as them being dropped almost arc to arc with each new writer creating new characters or rehashing others.

    One thing that has really bummed me with DCEU WW is how Phillipus was treated. Even ignoring that, the Amazons in general getting completely cut off from Diana for a century just doesn't sit right with me.
    I like Diana being cut off from the island for a time being. It adds to the dramatics and a real sacrifice that she is giving up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I've never watched more than an episode of Lynda Carter's show, but your theory doesn't make sense. Did Wonder Woman fly in that show? Did she use her tiara to ricochet? Did she use her lasso like Wonder Woman did in the white house? And what do you think the finale of WW84 with her using the truth power on the world comes from if not from "Gods and Mortals" by George Perez with her convincing Ares to stop?


    But I am fine with what we've seen in the movies. Diana talking to animals isnt going to make them any better. Super streangth, speed, leaping/flying, bullets/bracelets, lasso...she lassos on lightning! She doesn't age. All good enough for me.
    Last edited by Primal Slayer; 05-13-2021 at 03:31 PM.

  2. #77
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    ok I get it, one of the ablities I mentioned actually existed in the Tv show, that still leaves the rest of the things. Her use of the lasso was beyond anything in any other media including comics. She flew (although that's not exactly something I think she should do) and she used the lasso to resolve the conflict in a moment that was clearly inspired by Gods and Mortals and Ares as well as Gail Simone's run. So that claim that Patty only does what the Lynda Carter show does is incorrect.

  3. #78
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    edit: nevermind
    Last edited by I'm a Fish; 05-13-2021 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #79
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    ok I get it, one of the ablities I mentioned actually existed in the Tv show, that still leaves the rest of the things. Her use of the lasso was beyond anything in any other media including comics. She flew (although that's not exactly something I think she should do) and she used the lasso to resolve the conflict in a moment that was clearly inspired by Gods and Mortals and Ares as well as Gail Simone's run. So that claim that Patty only does what the Lynda Carter show does is incorrect.
    Well, it’s not a 100% hommage to the TV show, they clearly tapped into many sources for the WW84 movie.
    But for 2/3 of the movie, power level wise, WW84’s Wonder Woman is closer to Lynda Carter’s Wonder Woman than that of the comics. Lynda’s WW even seems to be faster, she managed to stop bullets from a machine gun, something she was not shown to do in both Patty’s movies.
    I mean she did stop bullets, but not in a super-speed way.

    You may have already explained it, but I’m curious, why do you think Diana should not fly?
    Last edited by enish; 05-13-2021 at 10:34 PM.

  5. #80
    Incredible Member Primal Slayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enish View Post
    Well, it’s not a 100% hommage to the TV show, they clearly tapped into many sources for the WW84 movie.
    But for 2/3 of the movie, power level wise, WW84’s Wonder Woman is closer to Lynda Carter’s Wonder Woman than that of the comics. Lynda’s WW even seems to be faster, she managed to stop bullets from a gun machine, something she was not shown to do in both Patty’s movies.
    I mean she did stop bullets, but not in a super-speed way.

    You may have already explained it, but I’m curious, why do you think Diana should not fly?
    WW is also depowered for majority of WW84

  6. #81
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primal Slayer View Post
    WW is also depowered for majority of WW84
    Which puts WW84 roughly on the same level of power as Lynda's WW.

    All of that while Diana was advertised as being at the height of her abilities.
    It can be pretty understandable why a lot of people ended up disappointed.
    They wanted to play with people's expectations, but they failed miserably as it was done in a counter-productive way.
    Especially when they are making a movie on a 200 million dollar budget.

    As for the lasso, I liked some of the ideas that were used, but there was no follow-up to that in the other movies.

    And as a ropedart and whip practicer myself, there are so many creative things they could have done with the lasso combat wise.
    The lasso should not be used just as a rope and a lasso. If Diana is such an expert in combat, she should be way more versatile than that.
    They should have studied some martial arts movies where the ropedart is used as a main weapon. All of that combined with some acrobatic moves, it would be a feast to the eye.

    And that would make her more unique in her powerset too.

    I think Rucka actually tried to be a little bit more creative with the lasso when he had Diana fight Silverswan in one the the issues.
    And I also like the idea that Diana can somehow telepathically control the lasso.

    But hey, they seemed more keen on spending their budget filming in real locations than in the creative department for all things related to powers.
    Last edited by enish; 05-14-2021 at 04:53 AM.

  7. #82
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enish View Post

    I think Rucka actually tired to be a little bit more creative with the lasso when he had Diana fight Silverswan in one the the issues.
    And I also like the idea that Diana can somehow telepathically control the lasso.
    I don't recall that. Are you talking about Rucka's original run or Wonder Woman Rebirth? Because it rebirth I think she just used the sword and lasso (gross).

  8. #83
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    I don't recall that. Are you talking about Rucka's original run or Wonder Woman Rebirth? Because it rebirth I think she just used the sword and lasso (gross).
    Rucka's original run. I'll try to find the exact issue and scans.

    It's actually in his first run where Diana slammed her bracelet together to neutralize a tsunami, with the help of the lansinarian morphing technology which amplified the sound.
    Last edited by enish; 05-14-2021 at 04:54 AM.

  9. #84
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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    Last edited by enish; 05-14-2021 at 04:55 AM.

  10. #85
    Fantastic Member enish's Avatar
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  11. #86
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Very nice. Anything Ghost Rider does with his chain should be something Diana also does with her lasso, except her lasso can extend much further and be tied to multiple things as well for some unique combos
    Last edited by Alpha; 05-15-2021 at 11:38 AM.

  12. #87
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enish View Post

    You may have already explained it, but I’m curious, why do you think Diana should not fly?
    Well first of all, none of the stories I love of Wonder Woman have flight as an important power. Almost all situations Diana is put into can totally be solved without her flying. Maybe the fights with Silver Swan are the exception, but I still think it would be possible for her to solve this in an exciting way simply with wonder jumps and her lasso.

    Second, the only origin I love for Diana is the original one with some slight twists. But the essential narrative is that Hippolyta created a clay figure with the "secret art of moulding a human form" and Aphrodite blessed it with the gift of life. No powers from the gods. Diana is the most exceptional of all the amazons because of her talents (and in my personal fan fic she is the most advanced pseudo science-magic creation of the amazons). She can do everything a human being does except at a far, far greater level. As strong as Hercules, as fast as mercury, etc etc. Marston wrote the stories as if any of the Holliday Girls could reach Diana's extraordinary level of strength, if they just became as exceptionally virtuous and willful as her. Flight isn't a human ability that anyone could achieve through virtue, it's something undoubtely of another kind.

    Third, I don't see a thematic reason for her to fly. Superman's flight is of course a staple, but it's also thematic. He is an alien, a being from another world, and all the qualities that he has left from Krypton are his actual powers, not technology, Flight is the type of supernatural ability that makes it clear that he is of another world, one where the laws of physics don't apply. And it's a necessary power for him to travel to other worlds and fights all those threats he usually fights, like war space ships (or the classic saving airplane), flying alien conquerors, etc. Diana doesn't face these types of threats.

    Or more simply put, why should Wonder Woman fly? Why does she need it?

  13. #88
    Astonishing Member John Venus's Avatar
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    You could ask that about anything. Why does she need to come from an island of women why not the Himalayas? Why does she need bracelets? Why does she need boots? She can go barefoot. None of of the WW stories I read showed her shoes being important. Why does she need an Invisible Plane? Why does she even need arms? She can still be a warrior and a symbol of empowerment without it.

    Getting nit piky about details doesn't help any. What Diana needs is more consistency. The question of whether she can fly or not should be behind us now. She can fly, she has super strength equal to that of Hercules or Superman, she has super speed, she can talk to animals, her senses are enhanced and she can talk to the Gods. End of story.

    Diana is a modern day mythical hero. Being able to do great feats is a part of the character and it's still rare for a female hero to be shown as equal or even better than a male hero at some thing. It shouldn't be the only point of the character but I believe that it helps.

  14. #89
    Mighty Member I'm a Fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpha View Post
    Well first of all, none of the stories I love of Wonder Woman have flight as an important power. Almost all situations Diana is put into can totally be solved without her flying. Maybe the fights with Silver Swan are the exception, but I still think it would be possible for her to solve this in an exciting way simply with wonder jumps and her lasso.

    Second, the only origin I love for Diana is the original one with some slight twists. But the essential narrative is that Hippolyta created a clay figure with the "secret art of moulding a human form" and Aphrodite blessed it with the gift of life. No powers from the gods. Diana is the most exceptional of all the amazons because of her talents (and in my personal fan fic she is the most advanced pseudo science-magic creation of the amazons). She can do everything a human being does except at a far, far greater level. As strong as Hercules, as fast as mercury, etc etc. Marston wrote the stories as if any of the Holliday Girls could reach Diana's extraordinary level of strength, if they just became as exceptionally virtuous and willful as her. Flight isn't a human ability that anyone could achieve through virtue, it's something undoubtely of another kind.

    Third, I don't see a thematic reason for her to fly. Superman's flight is of course a staple, but it's also thematic. He is an alien, a being from another world, and all the qualities that he has left from Krypton are his actual powers, not technology, Flight is the type of supernatural ability that makes it clear that he is of another world, one where the laws of physics don't apply. And it's a necessary power for him to travel to other worlds and fights all those threats he usually fights, like war space ships (or the classic saving airplane), flying alien conquerors, etc. Diana doesn't face these types of threats.

    Or more simply put, why should Wonder Woman fly? Why does she need it?
    Superman wasn't meant to fly either, he got flying from a cartoon because the animators didn't want to animate him jumping. It transitioned into the comics after that.

  15. #90
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    You could ask that about anything. Why does she need to come from an island of women why not the Himalayas?
    Because she is supposed to be the wish fulfillment of an extraordinary woman raised by other women in a paradise. A tropical Island is the typical image of a paradise.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Why does she need bracelets?
    It's a symbol for the oppression that the amazons escaped from, and she wears it to honor her culture and the values of that made her who she is.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Why does she need boots? She can go barefoot. None of of the WW stories I read showed her shoes being important.
    I never said she needed shoes. She can go barefoot, seems fun actually. But in terms of fashion I can imagine her enjoying shoes at times. I'm okay with a Wonder Woman without shoes. It would be the least revealing part of her outfit anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Why does she need an Invisible Plane? Why does she even need arms? She can still be a warrior and a symbol of empowerment without it.
    She's supposed to be the "idealized woman". She's not supposed to be a symbol of overcoming adversity. She is a priviledged princess that actually tries to challenge herself to be formidable and deserving of everything she was given. I don't have a particular affinity for the Invisible Jet. I actually think if anything she should travel around in a helicopter or hovership, but this is a whole other thing so let's not get into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Getting nit piky about details doesn't help any. What Diana needs is more consistency. The question of whether she can fly or not should be behind us now. She can fly, she has super strength equal to that of Hercules or Superman, she has super speed, she can talk to animals, her senses are enhanced and she can talk to the Gods. End of story.
    You are telling me what some writers chose to do at several points in time. There are writers that didn't care if she flew, just like I don't. My point is that I don't see why she should fly, and I much more enjoy her just jumping around and using the lasso, or even riding around in a kangaroo (an animal that represents motherhood). You are the ones that insist on her flying. Do you feel like the Hulk needs to fly? Why does Diana? That's my point. I'll keep saying that I don't like her flying and give my reasons to anyone that asks. You can keep saying that you want her to fly for some random reason. In how many of her stories does she actually needs the ability to fly on her own to solve a situation?

    Quote Originally Posted by John Venus View Post
    Diana is a modern day mythical hero. Being able to do great feats is a part of the character and it's still rare for a female hero to be shown as equal or even better than a male hero at some thing. It shouldn't be the only point of the character but I believe that it helps.
    Flying isn't proof that she is at the same level as other superheroes, and not flying isn't proof that she is at a lower level than them. Hulk doesn't fly and he does just fine against Thor.

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