X-Force # 15 Spoiler/Review Thread - Trench Warfare

[Rev9]

Sometimes I would like to know the fanfics that people like Steel Inquisitor are reading. It must be interesting to compare them with the comics that the rest of us buy.

I guess the old fanfics will be based on the animated series, the only place where Xavier hasn't been a jerk.

He is a purist

[Glio]

Did you have this same reaction when they rewrote Domino's mind even after she expressed her desire to keep her scars and her trauma?

It is a very different situation. Domino's wish should have been respected as it was her suffering and she had to decide what to do with it. She was not a danger to society.

Omega Red is a dangerous psychopathic killer. We can ask him what he wants, but in any case, there aren't many other alternatives.

The alternatives are: Let him free to continue killing people (bad), lock him up for life (bad), kill him and not resurrect him (bad) or use telepathy to heal him (less bad).

[The Thunderbird]

Haven't read the Boys but isn't he a cult leader? That's more like his Ultimate version than the real thing. Bringing up the TAS version is a straw man, it's dishonest.

spoilers:

Well he kinda is but that's not Godolkin's (Xavier's parody in The Boys) darkest secret. Godolkin in fact molested the underage recruits he took under his wing and brainwashed them to serve him. Godolkin wasn't a telepath so he had to do the brainwashing the old way. He even had one of his former recruits (that he sexually assaulted of course) killed to keep the dark secret.

end of spoilers

[LordUltimus]

Again, Domino has already been the victim of this, they did it to an ally before they did it to a criminal.

That just makes it worse.

[Steel Inquisitor]

He is a purist

Never would I have guessed being someone who considers what happens in the comics as canon as a bad thing for comic readers to do.

[Rev9]

Never would I have guessed being someone who considers what happens in the comics as canon as a bad thing for comic readers to do.

To each their own , it's certainly not a negative ,but it is limiting. I just think with such a stand inevitably one chooses what is and what is not cannon because the comic medium is always in flux as characters are depicted through various iterations.Everything that is 'canon' is arbitrary

[Steel Inquisitor]

To each their own , it's certainly not a negative ,but it is limiting. I just think with such a stand inevitably one chooses what is and what is not cannon because the comic medium is always in flux as characters are depicted through various iterations.Everything that is 'canon' is arbitrary

Being in flux is not the same thing as official canon not being a thing, that's what every comic builds on in Marvel, even the unofficial universes/ time lines have their own official canons in super-hero comics. It's not arbitrary, with exceptions, Hickman's X-men is harder to pin down by nature yet it still has its internal canon which is building off prior historic runs (Bendis/Claremont/Kelly/Morrison etc) Hickman's X-men is interlinked with the rest of the comics continuity by design. Throwing out Marvel's continuity seems to pointless, why bother reading comics if you want to do your own head canon since anything Hickman does doesn't count anyway - despite the fact Marvel says it is so until otherwise stated. Just write your own stories, if the official comic canon is hated that much. It also comes off as disrespectful to the writers of the comics, if whatever they write means nothing to their readers.

[Rev9]

It is a very different situation. Domino's wish should have been respected as it was her suffering and she had to decide what to do with it. She was not a danger to society.

Omega Red is a dangerous psychopathic killer. We can ask him what he wants, but in any case, there aren't many other alternatives.

The alternatives are: Let him free to continue killing people (bad), lock him up for life (bad), kill him and not resurrect him (bad) or use telepathy to heal him (less bad).

Agree to a degree, because Omega would probably have some screwed up wish for his own memory log .On the one hand Krakoa has the ability to give him a do over by editing his memories to make him less of an asshole.Maybe they feel his mutation (death factor) makes him the way he is pretty much like Empath. The bigger issue though is once that door has been opened by Beast. There is no real oversight on Xavier how memories are imparted.We know Xavier and Magneto already is hiding the Moira stuff from the rest, he may as well hide lots more from mutants being resurrected by playing with their memories. This is dangerous for Krakoa on the one hand you have Sinister splicing god knows what ,on the other you have Xavier 'mind-laying' ..Shit will go south guaranteed

[Sutekh]

We know Xavier and Magneto already is hiding the Moira stuff from the rest, he may as well hide lots more from mutants being resurrected by playing with their memories. This is dangerous for Krakoa on the one hand you have Sinister splicing god knows what ,on the other you have Xavier 'mind-laying' ..Shit will go south guaranteed

It would be interesting if some people could leave a sort of living will for Xavier. "I want to remember everything but this one thing." Or "I want the Carol Danvers treatment, give me back the memories of (random horrible event), but stripped of emotional context, so I can *remember* being tortured, but it feels like a movie I watched about something that happened to someone else, there's no real fear or pain or trauma associated with it."

That last might be the healthiest option. Remember the traumatic events, and whatever lessons you might have learned from them. But no more bad dreams or post-traumatic stress over them. They just remain as warnings.

[Havok83]

It would be interesting if some people could leave a sort of living will for Xavier. "I want to remember everything but this one thing." Or "I want the Carol Danvers treatment, give me back the memories of (random horrible event), but stripped of emotional context, so I can *remember* being tortured, but it feels like a movie I watched about something that happened to someone else, there's no real fear or pain or trauma associated with it."

That last might be the healthiest option. Remember the traumatic events, and whatever lessons you might have learned from them. But no more bad dreams or post-traumatic stress over them. They just remain as warnings.

I get where you are going but what is the point? If a character wants memories edited out, they can go to any skilled telepath and do that right now. They dont need to wait for a death that may not happen (for quite some time).

This stuff is only being discussed in the context of a psychopath like Omega Red bc of the risk involved in unleashing him back into the world, in which case he has no choice bc he died. If he were alive and wanted his trauma to be minimized upon resurrection, then there would have been nothing preventing Xavier from doing that before it even got to that point

[Anchorsify]

Layla is "the reason Kitty and Piotr aren't getting brought back together again". You never introduce a new character as someone's S.O. and then give them zero agency aside from the mainline character they are attached to. It's kind of painful to see continue.

That said, X of Swords event completely derailed the plot as it was, and the fact that there was literally an event all about swords.. and then the cerebro sword just stolen didn't factor into at all.. it's just almost pathetic how poorly planned out these things seem to be with one another. It starts to seem like a purely scummy tactic to end every single ongoing book plot for the sake of an event spanning every book (rather than just.. a separate book? called X of swords? hello??) to put every other plot on hold for months. Like I can understand the COVID-related issues, but with hickman in control, shouldn't this shit not be so obnoxious?

Anyway, the casual way in which Russians are targeted by Beast and everyone just sort of shrugs it off aside from Colossus' very obviously egregious public embarrassment is kind of a stunning bit of hypocrisy from.. oh yeah, everyone. A whole island full of people who are persecuted and villainized according to who they are and Beast just isolates a nationality (even though the whole point of Krakoa is that they are now not american, or russian, or whatever, but.. krakoans) and everyone on the quiet council is just like yeah man, cool, let's let that go without maybe putting a stop to the blue furry guy's overt discrimination. I'm not sure you can be more on the nose than what X-force has been doing.

[Rev9]

It would be interesting if some people could leave a sort of living will for Xavier. "I want to remember everything but this one thing." Or "I want the Carol Danvers treatment, give me back the memories of (random horrible event), but stripped of emotional context, so I can *remember* being tortured, but it feels like a movie I watched about something that happened to someone else, there's no real fear or pain or trauma associated with it."

That last might be the healthiest option. Remember the traumatic events, and whatever lessons you might have learned from them. But no more bad dreams or post-traumatic stress over them. They just remain as warnings.

It can be explored, but with the way Xavier's mental blocks and edits always coming back to haunt him.I don't see why the scenario would be different,a person like Mystique just to screw with him, could easily tell Sinister to resurrect clones with the memories on another cerebro that are in storage and then you have a clone telling another they're living a fantasy. Depends how they handle it

[Havok83]

It can be explored, but with the way Xavier's mental blocks and edits always coming back to haunt him.I don't see why the scenario would be different,a person like Mystique just to screw with him, could easily tell Sinister to resurrect clones with the memories on another cerebro that are in storage and then you have a clone telling another they're living a fantasy. Depends how they handle it

She cant as Xavier is the only one authorized to complete the mind transfer (and I guess Jean)

[Hulkout42]

It would be interesting if some people could leave a sort of living will for Xavier. "I want to remember everything but this one thing." Or "I want the Carol Danvers treatment, give me back the memories of (random horrible event), but stripped of emotional context, so I can *remember* being tortured, but it feels like a movie I watched about something that happened to someone else, there's no real fear or pain or trauma associated with it."

That last might be the healthiest option. Remember the traumatic events, and whatever lessons you might have learned from them. But no more bad dreams or post-traumatic stress over them. They just remain as warnings.

See, i can't speak for anyone else but i feel that when they took away Domino's choice to keep her scars both mental and physical against what she wanted that set up the premise to say "It doesn't mater what choice you made, it doesn't matter if you are a good or bad person. What matters is my decision to act in the way i see fit regardless of who you are, how it will affect you and even if you want it to happen or not because i can do this when you can't stop me.". And in this case the same applies to Omega Red, yes he is a horrible person but he he is a free thinking being capable of choice and choice is what was not being considered regardless of what the ends were even if they were positive ones.

And i know someone will try to spin this in a negative way or to fit their narrative but still i have to say that i feel they are on a dangerous path and it will not end well for anyone involved, and maybe that is the intent, to foreshadow another nail in the coffin that is Krakoa.

[Hulkout42]

She cant as Xavier is the only one authorized to complete the mind transfer (and I guess Jean)

You say that like everyone is playing by the rules, when we all know they are not.

Xavier and Lensherr say do not kill humans or mess with them openly and then when no one is looking ask for assassinations or mess with someone's mind.
Sinister is messing with DNA when told not to.
Apocalypse was playing fast and loose with Otherworld before that blew up in their face.
Shaw got Kitty killed for a while.

You want to bet that Mystique won't find a way around that when it comes to bringing back Destiny? Because i think we can all agree she will return and probably at some important juncture in the future.
Mystique is at her most dangerous when she is focused and driven to achieve a goal, and bringing back Destiny is probably her highest priority to date.