X-Force # 15 Spoiler/Review Thread - Trench Warfare

[numberthirty]

You are discrediting this moment bc it doesnt suit your narrative but I can come back with multiple scans which are well aligned with this same rhetoric from him. When something happens over and over again across multiple years, writing teams and books, it can no longer be considered out of character, but actually what a character has developed into

As for your last point, Xavier left the X-men and Earth and had no idea what Magneto would do. Almost immediately got in bed with the Hellfire Club (working alongside Shaw too) and he did eventually have another heel turn. Xavier wasnt around to watch him. Xavier has worked with Mystique and had her be an agent for him, and its not like she had turned over a new leaf as a hero.

It's also that she is there as much as a loose end to be kept track of as a mutant who is there because it is a mutant homeland.

[ExodusCloak]

Which are flawed moments and he shouldn't have done them, that's not how he's written in X-men comics for the majority of his appearances. Hickman Xavier does things like this every few weeks, on a bigger scale and this ignores the history with the mutant super-villains who he fought for a reason. Now, he's their best friend and let's them do whatever they want with no accountability. The X-men also stood up to him back then, they barely have spines to do that now. You'd have me believe Xavier was chill about being friends with villains like Shaw, and Apocalypse. He's also had remorse for bad things he'd done, read Brubaker's X-men. Dark Beast wasn't a valued member of the X-men to Xavier, he was a villain they fought. And where did classic Xavier ever say like he was fine working with cartels? When he let Magneto replace him as the principle he din't intend for him to do it by not changing how he did things, Magneto did;t turn them into the Brotherhood 2.0 to honour Xavier's wish.

Thats absolutely false. If anything Xavier has consistently been written as a jerk. When he is written as nice that is an outlier and that was briefly when the TAS cartoons had so much influence they changed comics to fit that interpretation.

- 60's and 70's numerous examples of him creating his child army, mind wiping people left right and centre e.g. making Beasts family and friends forget him. Lying to his team for the 'greater good'. Sending his child soldiers into battle.

70s and 80s destroyed the multiverse with one of the highest death counts. X-Men Hidden Years where he is snappy and cruel. Tried to rape Dani and Kitty. Tells Storm hes going to take control of her mind if she doesn't listen in Secret Wars. Argues with Cyclops about leadership. Gets called a jerk by Kitty.

Mellowed a bit in New Mutants but died.

They wrote him aa nicer in the 90s due to the cartoon. Then there's Onslaught and the Xavier protocols

Consistently an arsehole from the 00s

[lordozone]

Yeah, Xavier has always been a character who has never had difficulty exceeding limits, and for whom the end often justifies the means. Even if he and Magneto disagreed on ideology and views about terrorism, their rough management and methods (creation of militias, manipulation of members, illegal missions, personality cult) have always been very similar. Xavier, like Magneto, has always been a jerk.

[Glio]

Sometimes I would like to know the fanfics that people like Steel Inquisitor are reading. It must be interesting to compare them with the comics that the rest of us buy.

I guess the old fanfics will be based on the animated series, the only place where Xavier hasn't been a jerk.

[Havok83]

It's also that she is there as much as a loose end to be kept track of as a mutant who is there because it is a mutant homeland.

Im talking about her solo series in the 00s. She was working for Xavier back then

[ermac]

70s and 80s destroyed the multiverse with one of the highest death counts. X-Men Hidden Years where he is snappy and cruel. Tried to rape Dani and Kitty. Tells Storm hes going to take control of her mind if she doesn't listen in Secret Wars. Argues with Cyclops about leadership. Gets called a jerk by Kitty

hm... WHAT?

[Hulkout42]

This issue reminded me, whatever happened to Domino’s dog that she got back in her solo?

Dog just got killed in this issue if that is what you are referring to.

[Hulkout42]

How dare the Five offer a cure for a congenital disease and years of horrific trauma for a psychopath.

Monsters

Did you have this same reaction when they rewrote Domino's mind even after she expressed her desire to keep her scars and her trauma?

[Arachne]

hm... WHAT?

X-men vs Micronauts. Xavier's evil side split from him and tries to rape Kitty, who was possessed by a Micronaut villain at the time. Then it took over Xavier's body and mind-raped Dani. And I am not using the term loosely. I've seem a lot of cases of telepaths invading peoples minds, but I've never seen one that was so overtly sexual.

To be fair, that mini might not be canon anymore, but if it is, I have to assume "good" Xavier blocked their memories of the incidents.

[fluxy23]

X-men vs Micronauts. Xavier's evil side split from him and tries to rape Kitty, who was possessed by a Micronaut villain at the time. Then it took over Xavier's body and mind-raped Dani. And I am not using the term loosely. I've seem a lot of cases of telepaths invading peoples minds, but I've never seen one that was so overtly sexual.

To be fair, that mini might not be canon anymore, but if it is, I have to assume "good" Xavier blocked their memories of the incidents.

That is pretty grim. Also, I can't believe you referenced this mini! Seems so obscure, but I have this buried in long boxes. (Taking me back to my childhood: Obnoxio the Clown vs. the X-men, Rom Spacenight, and ... U.S. 1. Marvel was weird, and I'm so glad.)

[Arachne]

Yeah, it makes me wonder why anyone would trust Xavier. If you don't want to dig the issues out, cbr has an article here: https://www.cbr.com/dark-professor-x-is-a-jerk/

[Devaishwarya]

Because he's not the devil?
He's no saint but...who is?

[Steel Inquisitor]

Thats absolutely false. If anything Xavier has consistently been written as a jerk. When he is written as nice that is an outlier and that was briefly when the TAS cartoons had so much influence they changed comics to fit that interpretation.

- 60's and 70's numerous examples of him creating his child army, mind wiping people left right and centre e.g. making Beasts family and friends forget him. Lying to his team for the 'greater good'. Sending his child soldiers into battle.

70s and 80s destroyed the multiverse with one of the highest death counts. X-Men Hidden Years where he is snappy and cruel. Tried to rape Dani and Kitty. Tells Storm hes going to take control of her mind if she doesn't listen in Secret Wars. Argues with Cyclops about leadership. Gets called a jerk by Kitty.

Mellowed a bit in New Mutants but died.

They wrote him aa nicer in the 90s due to the cartoon. Then there's Onslaught and the Xavier protocols

Consistently an arsehole from the 00s

The argument was that he's not evil, not that he's an *******. He can be a jerk, that's true. Xavier's not the one who was obsessed with turning his students into soldiers, that's OG Cable. The Micronauts crossover was an evil side of his personality, not the real him many villains, the context fir the villains he fights don't have an excuse of their evil side getting loose they are their evil side. They're perfectly sane while doing that, and you'd have believe the sane for xavier as if he was the actual villain in the Micronauts crossover. Don't blame Onslaught on Xavier as if he was in full control, Onslaught was created accidentally when Xavier mindwiped Magneto (who corrected him not the other way around) Onslaught was an entity unto itself, like the Micronaut shard. That's why a theory I have is that the current Xavier is one of those shards taken life again, after Moira X got to him.

[ExodusCloak]

The argument was that he's not evil, not that he's an *******. He can be a jerk, that's true. Xavier's not the one who was obsessed with turning his students into soldiers, that's OG Cable. The Micronauts crossover was an evil side of his personality, not the real him many villains, the context fir the villains he fights don't have an excuse of their evil side getting loose they are their evil side. They're perfectly sane while doing that, and you'd have believe the sane for xavier as if he was the actual villain in the Micronauts crossover. Don't blame Onslaught on Xavier as if he was in full control, Onslaught was created accidentally when Xavier mindwiped Magneto (who corrected him not the other way around) Onslaught was an entity unto itself, like the Micronaut shard. That's why a theory I have is that the current Xavier is one of those shards taken life again, after Moira X got to him.

The point is its Fractions Uncanny Annual was definitely in character. Even Claremont believed he possessed the Quality of a supervillian.

He is written very closely to his Silver Age self here. Xavier and Magneto are two sides of the same coin he contains the ruthlessness of a supervillain - Chris Claremont in X-Men companion

"I thought he was cruel" Cyclops in the issue after the DPS

Xavier is closer to the G-Men portrayl in The Boys then he is to the TAS version.

As for the Micronauts that was him. That side is tempered by his "good" side but as explained in the series that was him.

[Steel Inquisitor]

The point is its Fractions Uncanny Annual was definitely in character. Even Claremont believed he possessed the Quality of a supervillian.

Claremont preferred Magneto leading the team because keeping Xavier alive was only going to tarnish him because keeping him nice was boring. Having qualities of a super-villain don't make him a super-villain, especially when Marvel built its brand on the opposite for its villains. Magneto wasn't a hero because he had sympathetic goals and experiences, he was monster because of his methods.

He is written very closely to his Silver Age self here. Xavier and Magneto are two sides of the same coin he contains the ruthlessness of a supervillain - Chris Claremont in X-Men companion

Silver Age Xavier was a jerk and he secretive and controlling, but he wasn't doing anything like Magneto was. His first thought wasn't dropping bombs on the Brotherhood when their teams clashed, that was what Magneto did. None of this suggests Xavier being ok working with cartels like Krakoa Xavier's doing.

"I thought he was cruel" Cyclops in the issue after the DPS

He was. The word being cruel, not evil. You must have hated OG Cable when he took over X-Force.

Xavier is closer to the G-Men portrayl in The Boys then he is to the TAS version.

Haven't read the Boys but isn't he a cult leader? That's more like his Ultimate version than the real thing. Bringing up the TAS version is a straw man, it's dishonest.

As for the Micronauts that was him. That side is tempered by his "good" side but as explained in the series that was him.

That was the evil part of him, which acts on its own. It's not unusual for fiction for the dark sides of heroes to be be monsters because nobody's perfect, and why Xavier doesn't act like that when he's in his right mind. This is why nobody blames Bruce banner for that the Maestro does. Xavier was literally possessed by his evil double in the Micronauts crossover, and Onslaught's first prisoner. What does that say about the villains he does fight who don't have this excuse of being their evil doubles running around? That is left unsaid in this conversation. It wasn't Magneto's evil double that was responsible for his activities as a super-villain.