Immutable Design Elements

[Robanker]

I find people's fixation on if Black Canary has fishnets or not weird.

This comment from the hot takes thread and my later response did get me thinking about what everyone here considers the immutable design elements that inform a character; stuff that if removed, effectively makes the character no longer them. For example: Batman's cape and cowl. If you see a silhouette of Batman, they're all you really need and you know "that's Batman!"

In a movie, if the bat chest logo doesn't immediately pop out or is absent, he could still look like Batman. But if you change the cowl? The whole thing falls apart. He's just goth Space Ghost now. His pointed cape is used so very much in creating imagery and his overall design that a capeless Batman doesn't really look right, albeit not as strange as a Batman with a different cowl. So there are certainly degrees of immutability.

There are many examples, almost none of which are universal, but become major talking points. Green Arrow's beard, Superman's trunks, Superman's spit curl, Diana in heels (this one used to be really big, but not as much in recent years), Arthur's hook hand, etc.

Obviously this changes from each person's personal takes, but what are some of yours? What are the centerpieces of designs that bring a costume together and inform a character?

Pictures very much welcome!

[Gaius]

Zatanna’s top hat

Hal’s domino mask and conversely John with no mask.

Guy’s popped collar, maybe his bowl cut but I don’t think he’s had that for years by this point.

Probably not as immutable as the others but for me, Diana with big curly hair.

[Alpha]

I defintely don't think Batman's cape is immutable. Batman Beyond still feels like Batman even without the cape. I think Diana's immutable design element is her tiara. She doesn't really use the tiara anymore, but just in terms of design it feels so much like her. But the Yara Flor design has me thinking that maybe instead of it being under her hair it could also work on top of heir hair like a head band.

[Robanker]

I defintely don't think Batman's cape is immutable. Batman Beyond still feels like Batman even without the cape. I think Diana's immutable design element is her tiara. She doesn't really use the tiara anymore, but just in terms of design it feels so much like her. But the Yara Flor design has me thinking that maybe instead of it being under her hair it could also work on top of heir hair like a head band.

As I said, I think the cape is more "it just doesn't feel right" as opposed to "that's not Batman!"

There are stories where he's fighting Ra's shirtless without the cape, but he still looks like he's an incomplete Batman. If he lost the cape in any adaption I'd be outright livid. It's too much a part of Batman for me to accept it disappearing. I think the ears are objective, whereas the cape is a personal one.

Terry I consider his own thing, so Batman Beyond =/= Batman in this case. A Batman Beyond with an exposed face, for example, is heresy.

I was going to wait a while before replying again in this thread with more of my own, but I wanted to set that distinction because I don't think everyone has to agree-- some of them can be extremely particular (like a big S shield or a small one for Superman, or how he tucks his cape in). Just curious on the very particular lines in the sand we all draw.

[j9ac9k]

Hal’s domino mask and conversely John with no mask.

Neither here nor there, but is it a domino mask if it covers your nose?

[BohemiaDrinker]

This comment from the hot takes thread and my later response did get me thinking about what everyone here considers the immutable design elements that inform a character; stuff that if removed, effectively makes the character no longer them. For example: Batman's cape and cowl. If you see a silhouette of Batman, they're all you really need and you know "that's Batman!"

In a movie, if the bat chest logo doesn't immediately pop out or is absent, he could still look like Batman. But if you change the cowl? The whole thing falls apart. He's just goth Space Ghost now. His pointed cape is used so very much in creating imagery and his overall design that a capeless Batman doesn't really look right, albeit not as strange as a Batman with a different cowl. So there are certainly degrees of immutability.

There are many examples, almost none of which are universal, but become major talking points. Green Arrow's beard, Superman's trunks, Superman's spit curl, Diana in heels (this one used to be really big, but not as much in recent years), Arthur's hook hand, etc.

Obviously this changes from each person's personal takes, but what are some of yours? What are the centerpieces of designs that bring a costume together and inform a character?

Pictures very much welcome!

I have a lot to add here, but I'm also writting a book on the subject. So I'll refrain from comenting.

PS: Fuck it. Flash needs his yellow boots.

[K7P5V]

Everything about Firestorm, especially the costume & his flaming headgear: