Is Rey´s overpowered character the main reason why the sequels are bad?

[K. Jones]

"Pitch Meeting" on you tube commented, that Rey`s "Hero's Journey" lacks the middle part and I agree.

For me Rey did not really earn her power and her victory through hard ship and suffering like Luke did. This is why people became so emotional when Luke appeared on the Mandalorian. Because they went though a lot with him. I doubt that Rey will create the same emotional response decades later, but time will tell.

In ESB despite the training by Yoda and a few years of self training before that, Luke got destroyed by Vader, who was clearly far superior. Luke got his hand cut off and suffered a trauma from descovering the identity of Vader. In RoJ you see a different Luke, older, calmer, more mature and overall a better Jedi. He is able to win against Vader by using the dark side of the force, but then after an emotional struggle he decides to stay true to the light side. And then gets his ass kicked by Palpatine.

The Luke in RotJ is a far different Luke than in NH, forged through years of fighting, suffering, physical and emotional trauma.

I do not see a similar development with Rey. There was no real struggle, neither emotional nor physical. The Rey in RotS is far more powerful by getting her powers served an a silver platter everytime the plot demanded it, but emotionally still not much different than the Rey in TFA.

I also think they should have made all three (Poe, Finn and Rey) Jedi. Maybe each one representing a different aspect of the Force. For example Poe could have been a Jedi with a special affinity for flying, Finn for fighting and Rey for mental manipulation.

That's really interesting. I do think, out of the gate, that Daisy Ridley sells the acting of "how the hell did I just do that?" in addition to things like "wait these things are real?" and awe and shock, in all three films, when she sees some of the OP things that even she finds herself doing.

I've been on a thought experiment lately thinking about role reversals in the Sequel Trilogy - I think Ben Solo is kind of the "natural protagonist" and hero but I think there's real value to having him, and the son of Leia & Han, be the bad guy and the whole flip dynamic being a thing to explore the nature of why somebody is "good" or "bad" in the Force and in these stories. But even in the inverse, Rey almost feels like she has the Villain's Journey in structure. The Gifted Natural, but is she "hopeful" (her parents are coming back for her, just you watch) or "delusional"? She meets Luke and goes right to the Dark. She's Nobody. No wait she's Somebody. Somebody Big. She's been lied to. She's scorned. The Gifted Natural. It all comes so Quickly. Seductively. Almost like she's been using the Dark Side the whole time, whereas for Kylo, ironically the Dark Side comes very, very difficult. It's not easy for him to do bad things.

They meet somewhere in the middle, but her path, her journey, her story structure, seems tailor made for having had the Dark Turn actually happen. So I do tend to agree that the Sequel Trilogy would have been stronger by far if they'd crossed paths in the middle and her O-P Rapid Growth turned out to be as much of a Problem or Hindrance as a Solution. You want to give your characters real emotional hurdles to overcome and they certainly made some interesting attempts to do that with Rey, but really if she's going to have Fast-Awakening extreme levels of skill and power, that same skill and power should be the Very Thing that's a problem to overcome. Not Kylo and a parade of Wizards of Oz behind increasing amounts of Curtains.

(on that aside, Ben should have absolutely been a Jedi Vice Cop undercover and having to do Terrible things to discover the truth that Palpatine's Wraith was behind everything. His balance of guilt and torment versus the greater good would be brutal ... and make her go dark even as Ben came back to the light and they traded. And then it's almost like The Departed in Star Wars.)

[godisawesome]

That's really interesting. I do think, out of the gate, that Daisy Ridley sells the acting of "how the hell did I just do that?" in addition to things like "wait these things are real?" and awe and shock, in all three films, when she sees some of the OP things that even she finds herself doing.

I've been on a thought experiment lately thinking about role reversals in the Sequel Trilogy - I think Ben Solo is kind of the "natural protagonist" and hero but I think there's real value to having him, and the son of Leia & Han, be the bad guy and the whole flip dynamic being a thing to explore the nature of why somebody is "good" or "bad" in the Force and in these stories. But even in the inverse, Rey almost feels like she has the Villain's Journey in structure. The Gifted Natural, but is she "hopeful" (her parents are coming back for her, just you watch) or "delusional"? She meets Luke and goes right to the Dark. She's Nobody. No wait she's Somebody. Somebody Big. She's been lied to. She's scorned. The Gifted Natural. It all comes so Quickly. Seductively. Almost like she's been using the Dark Side the whole time, whereas for Kylo, ironically the Dark Side comes very, very difficult. It's not easy for him to do bad things.

They meet somewhere in the middle, but her path, her journey, her story structure, seems tailor made for having had the Dark Turn actually happen. So I do tend to agree that the Sequel Trilogy would have been stronger by far if they'd crossed paths in the middle and her O-P Rapid Growth turned out to be as much of a Problem or Hindrance as a Solution. You want to give your characters real emotional hurdles to overcome and they certainly made some interesting attempts to do that with Rey, but really if she's going to have Fast-Awakening extreme levels of skill and power, that same skill and power should be the Very Thing that's a problem to overcome. Not Kylo and a parade of Wizards of Oz behind increasing amounts of Curtains.

(on that aside, Ben should have absolutely been a Jedi Vice Cop undercover and having to do Terrible things to discover the truth that Palpatine's Wraith was behind everything. His balance of guilt and torment versus the greater good would be brutal ... and make her go dark even as Ben came back to the light and they traded. And then it's almost like The Departed in Star Wars.)

I disagree with some of your premise here.

While I can see why Rey being a prodigy could work for a villain... I also think she’s got a background that suits a hero far more, from being a hard edged survivor raising herself on a scavenger planet to losing a chance at a found family because Kylo killed tried to kill her father figure and her best friend. And her personality fits a hero much better as well... when it’s allowed to be a thing, and not ignored for th sake of Kylo.

Because of there’s anything Inthink you can firmly state about Kylo, it’s that outside of his parentage... nothing about him fits a heroic character, or an anti-heroic character, or even really an anti-villain, from his background to his actions to his personality. He’s almost tailor-made to be a loathsome scumbag of enetitlement, and closer to being a timely villain for the Trump-era than to be an “undercover Jedi.”

...But he’s got the family connection, and I think that honestly just about everyone thinks a Skywalker should be the main character at least on a subconscious level, even if they consciously try to praise the idea of Rey Random or Rey Palpatine “Skywalker.”

I mean, if someone looked at Kylo post-TFA and thought “He should totally be the male lead instead of Finn!” or “It makes total sense for Rey to find him attractive!”... the best case scenario is that they actually just want the new Skywalker to be the main character (the worst case being they’re mildly sexist and racist). Heck, I’d argue that if you thought he was still imminently redeemable after TFA and TLJ... that’s also the desire for a Skywalker protagonist, and not actually an evaluation of his character.

And I think that causes more problems for Rey than anything else - people were willing to make exceptions and suspend a greater degree of disbelief for Kylo because he was Vader’s grandson, but weren’t willing to extend that to Rey because she wasn’t. And I think when you see how many seem to actively try to ignore Finn, it’s rather obvious there’s a double standard fo SOME kind.

[frostedemma]

No.

Rey being "overpowered" isn't the reason why the sequels suck, they suck because J.J Abrams is utterly incapable of correctly ending his stories and tying up plot threads (see lost, fringe, cloverfield framchise) and because he fails upwards thanks to nepotism. The biggest reason why the sequels fell short is because they didn't plan/write the entire trilogy before they started shooting episode 7 and gave in to fan service (to one of the most pettiest fanbase) instead of developing and exploring previously established plots (finn's force sensitivity, snooke, the knights of ren, capitain phasima to name a few).

I will forever side eye Lucasfilm/Kennedy/J.J for letting Kelly Marie Tran getting all that onslaught of hate and criticism for having the audacity to be an asian women in star wars and then giving her 3 lines in rise of skywalker.

[godisawesome]

No.

Rey being "overpowered" isn't the reason why the sequels suck, they suck because J.J Abrams is utterly incapable of correctly ending his stories and tying up plot threads (see lost, fringe, cloverfield framchise) and because he fails upwards thanks to nepotism. The biggest reason why the sequels fell short is because they didn't plan/write the entire trilogy before they started shooting episode 7 and gave in to fan service (to one of the most pettiest fanbase) instead of developing and exploring previously established plots (finn's force sensitivity, snooke, the knights of ren, capitain phasima to name a few).

I will forever side eye Lucasfilm/Kennedy/J.J for letting Kelly Marie Tran getting all that onslaught of hate and criticism for having the audacity to be an asian women in star wars and then giving her 3 lines in rise of skywalker.

And I think a much larger side eye should go towards Johnson for sidelining Boyega in front of all that onslaught of hate and criticism for being a black guy who had the temerity to have a great story and strong relationship with the female main character, and for shoving Ridley into a sexist bit of pseudo-smut with her character’s Neo-Nazi abuser.

Seriously, Johnson did more damage than Abrams to the new characters, and it’s not like he did anything great with Rose either; Tran alone is responsible for what charm that character has, and is fighting an uphill battle from Johnson’s tepid, apathetic, and blatantly badly motivated writing. Her characters there to try and cut off Finn from being i mocked with a Rey, and nothing more; Johnson even dropped what real ideas he had for her out fo disinterest.

Tran got screwed by TROS, but Boyega and Ridley got screwed by TLJ, and while all three are great talents, the latter two were supposed to be the main leads, and Johnson punished them for being in Kylo’s way in TLJ.

[frostedemma]

And I think a much larger side eye should go towards Johnson for sidelining Boyega in front of all that onslaught of hate and criticism for being a black guy who had the temerity to have a great story and strong relationship with the female main character, and for shoving Ridley into a sexist bit of pseudo-smut with her character’s Neo-Nazi abuser.

Seriously, Johnson did more damage than Abrams to the new characters, and it’s not like he did anything great with Rose either; Tran alone is responsible for what charm that character has, and is fighting an uphill battle from Johnson’s tepid, apathetic, and blatantly badly motivated writing. Her characters there to try and cut off Finn from being i mocked with a Rey, and nothing more; Johnson even dropped what real ideas he had for her out fo disinterest.

Tran got screwed by TROS, but Boyega and Ridley got screwed by TLJ, and while all three are great talents, the latter two were supposed to be the main leads, and Johnson punished them for being in Kylo’s way in TLJ.

The same Rian Johnson who fought to have Kelly Marie Tran as Rose? The same Rian Johnson who publicly spoke out against the hate Kelly and John were getting and voiced his support when most of the people at lucasfilm couldn't be bothered, including JJ. That Rian Johnson? It's one thing to not like TLJ but to claim that Johnson singlehandedly ruined star wars when ROS exist is quite the stretch. TLJ and TFA were written at the same time before anyone was cast, so I doubt it was a sinister premeditated plot on Johnson part to have Finn in a coma during the first act of TLJ in response to the racist backlash John Boyega was getting in 2015. Also given how he wrote and directed Knives Out, I doubt Johnson is that much of a bad writer.

[godisawesome]

The same Rian Johnson who fought to have Kelly Marie Tran as Rose? The same Rian Johnson who publicly spoke out against the hate Kelly and John were getting and voiced his support when most of the people at lucasfilm couldn't be bothered, including JJ. That Rian Johnson? It's one thing to not like TLJ but to claim that Johnson singlehandedly ruined star wars when ROS exist is quite the stretch. TLJ and TFA were written at the same time before anyone was cast, so I doubt it was a sinister premeditated plot on Johnson part to have Finn in a coma during the first act of TLJ in response to the racist backlash John Boyega was getting in 2015. Also given how he wrote and directed Knives Out, I doubt Johnson is that much of a bad writer.

I actually LOVE Knives Out, so it’s not that Johnson is a bad writer.

But the dude fucked over Boyega and Ridely, and he screwed over Tran just as much because ultimately he didn’t really care about her character beyond splitting Finn off from Rey.

He’s the same Johnson who thought making a joke about Finn’s life-threatening injuries while moaning about a scar on Kylo’s face was the right thing to do.

He was the guy who wrote a scene trying to ignore and rollback Finn’s character development from TFA to try and make it a bad thing that he cared about Rey; Finn *already* saw the bigger picture in TFA when he came back to Han before Rey got kidnapped by Kylo... but that requires acknowledging Finn’s relationship with Rey is a good thing.

He's the guy who decided Rey should crush on the Neo-Nazi School Shooter who tried to Mind-Rape her in the previous film... and almost because he confirmed he was a school shooter to her, since he didn’t think Rey should react to anything Kylo did that is horrific.

He’s the guy who decided that Finn should be lectured on the dark side of the Galaxy when Finn’s a fucking child slave soldier, and then made an entire story about him getting more people killed because his sub-plot of a subplot had no meaning for Johnson.

He’s the guy who decided to drop a dramatic core to Finn and Rose’s story because he “didn’t want to write it.”

Dude made a great choice in choosing Tran for a role. He then wrote a bad one that she struggled to elevate beyond crap, because the character was always more about being Not-Rey than anything else.

Boyega knew he got screwed over by TLJ, and he did. Ridely got screwed over by TLJ, though she’s been more tactful about it. Tran got screwed over by TROS, I ain’t denying that, but Johnson screwed over the the two leads, and Johnson was the guy actively sabotaging Finn as a character after TFA.

He wanted to write a progressive Star Wars movie... but TLJ is a sexist and racist movie all the same, because he focuse Don the wrong character at everyone else’s expense.

[DrNewGod]

The sequels had a serious obstacle to begin with. There were several camps of fans with different visions of what the Millennium Gangs futures were supposed to look like, and satisfying them all was apt to be tricky. Of course, the first two sequel films managed to piss off almost all those camps.

I felt the films were so focused on delivering a feminist message that they alienated a lot of males. Little girls absolutely did deserve asskicking aspirational figures (although Leia had never been a slouch), but rather than just build women up, they decided to create a contrast by making their male leads almost universally dumb or hapless.

Finally, the sequels, particularly TFA, were less an interesting attempt to tell a new story, than an effort to take each cool item from the OT, and mimic it at extreme volume. That's classic Abrams, who IMO is not good at writing stories, but tends to write scenes which sometimes stitch together adequately, but not always.

[Moon Ronin]

No.

Rey being "overpowered" isn't the reason why the sequels suck, they suck because J.J Abrams is utterly incapable of correctly ending his stories and tying up plot threads (see lost, fringe, cloverfield framchise) and because he fails upwards thanks to nepotism. The biggest reason why the sequels fell short is because they didn't plan/write the entire trilogy before they started shooting episode 7 and gave in to fan service (to one of the most pettiest fanbase) instead of developing and exploring previously established plots (finn's force sensitivity, snooke, the knights of ren, capitain phasima to name a few).

I will forever side eye Lucasfilm/Kennedy/J.J for letting Kelly Marie Tran getting all that onslaught of hate and criticism for having the audacity to be an asian women in star wars and then giving her 3 lines in rise of skywalker.

.

The same Rian Johnson who fought to have Kelly Marie Tran as Rose? The same Rian Johnson who publicly spoke out against the hate Kelly and John were getting and voiced his support when most of the people at lucasfilm couldn't be bothered, including JJ. That Rian Johnson? It's one thing to not like TLJ but to claim that Johnson singlehandedly ruined star wars when ROS exist is quite the stretch. TLJ and TFA were written at the same time before anyone was cast, so I doubt it was a sinister premeditated plot on Johnson part to have Finn in a coma during the first act of TLJ in response to the racist backlash John Boyega was getting in 2015. Also given how he wrote and directed Knives Out, I doubt Johnson is that much of a bad writer.

You seem to blame every one BUT Ryan Johnson then complain ("instead of developing and exploring previously established plots (finn's force sensitivity, snooke, the knights of ren, capitain phasima to name a few). " ) that what was wrong was every thing Johnson ignored should have been explored. Johnson completely ignored Finn's force sensitivity, He gave Supreme Leader Snoke a lack lusnter death, The Knights of who?, Capitain Phasima and her death were a complete waste in The Last Jedi. The Rise of Sky Walker exist because of The Last Jedi. Abrams created the plot points that you say needed to be explored then blame him that Johnson either ignored them or killed them off in a meaningless way, to name a few.

There is issues with the movies and issues that have nothing to do with the movies. Kelly Marie Tran seems like a sweet person and I have absolutely nothing against her. She did not create, write, or direct the character and I'm able to separate the actor from the role. She was cast and did her job and she seems to be a really good actress and completely didn't deserve the vile treatment she received on the internet by the abhorrent under belly of Star War's fandom. With that said the character of Rose is trash. There is absolutely no reason for her and her creation and storyline impeded on the development of Finn. By the end of The Last Jedi no one was asking themselves, "where does Rose go from here?"

On the same note I don't think that Johnson had it out for Boyega he just didn't seem to like the idea of Finn being a Force sensitive ex-storm trooper with the potential to rise in the ranks of the Resistance in the fight against the First Order. Instead he thought a former soldier under subjugation to the malevolent and militant First Order needed to learn about the cruelty of subjugation had the monstrous reality of war profiteering. You know cause he left the First Order becasue the DFAC didn't have soft serve. I'm not in the camp that thinks Finn should have died in the attack run during The Battle of Crait, yes if that were to happen it would have given the character who seemed to have no real meaning through out the entire movie a purpose other than chasing a MacGuffin. But if that were to happen he would have been completely absent from the final instalment and that would be a shame. The Rise of Skywalker reopened the door for for Finn to feel the Force, made him a top tier leader in the Resistance and didn't fall back on the "I'm a janitor" shtick that every story involving Finn has included counting The Last Jedi.

[GOLGO 13]

They wanted to push an agenda & got dragged to the outhouse for their efforts. Try as they want, they cannot kill-off Luke. In Favreau We Trust.

[godisawesome]

They wanted to push an agenda & got dragged to the outhouse for their efforts. Try as they want, they cannot kill-off Luke. In Favreau We Trust.

I actually don’t think they had anything like a consistent agenda or execution of it.

Yeah, there was a general “girl power” idea behind Rey and several stabs at venison from a bunch of dudes, and an attempt at inclusion...:

- But Abrams’s approach was a more laid back and conventional “cast the diverse actors and tell the story the same way you would with the ‘conventional’ ones” approach in TFA...

-...While Johnson tried to be more overt and explicit, but his own biases meant he screwed up his messages badly, where the message gets contradicted and you basically have to share his exact biases (or share some and ignore the rest in a shallow skim of the movie) to like the movie.

TFA’s runaway success was not the output of *only* sticking the words Star Wars on a film starring Harrison Ford in a major role again, in spite of what some people said; that sure as hell helped, but it was also a strong entry on its own thanks to smart characterization choices for the leads and excellent casting.

People who complained about “agendas” when TFA came out were pointlessly bitching for suspicious reasons... and they’re opinion ultimately didn’t matter as the film rolled to a $2 Billion box office and launched the new cast as popular characters for two years. Neither Ridley or Boyega is the conventional “ubiquitous white male lead”... but they had stories that could have been played by that type of actor, and that applicability helped see them to a lot of people. Isaac was allowed to basically just pump his charisma into a bit part and make it memorable.Driver, the only true “ubiquitous white male” actor in the bunch, played a very good “imminently despicable” villain... who yes, would have had far more applicability to the political climate only a year later if LFL realized it.

And of course, Harrison Ford knocked it out fot he park as a Han most people could like, even if they regressed the character a bit from ROTJ.

Then TLJ came in a screwed a whole bunch of it up. Johnson clearly struggled with an Action Girl lead, who was supposed to have an almost “sexless” characterization, and accidentally inserted a bunch of bullshit sexism from his own POV even as he made a paltry attempt at keeping her “girl power” elements intact: the result is an inhuman and overpowered plot device for asking Luke and Kylo questions that gets pimped out on trying to make Kylo seem sympathetic. And that general dedication to Kylo meant that the film tried to “put Finn in his proper place”... which has racist connotations that only worsened the issue of taking a promising character and strong male lead actor and demeaning him in a boring-ass story. Johnson also overreacted to Isaac’s charisma and mislabeled Poe as a hot head Ace Pilot stereotype he was determined to deconstruct... which has some also racist connotations given Isaac’s ancestry, and again led to a boring-ass story. Johnson *did* try pushing for inclusiveness with Holdo, Rose, and DJ... but again struggled to not expose some unintentional sexism on his part with the actresses, and joined other directors in basically wasting Del Toro with a lack of imagination.

Oh, and he also got high enough on his own farts in writing a selfish coward as his actual main character, whom he mislabeled “Luke Skywalker.” Then he killed him off.

The ST started strong with TFA, then TLJ derailed it so you could only really stay invested if your central focus was on Kylo. TROS got screwed because it had to honor a bunch of stupidity from TLJ, and because no one was smart enough to embrace the kinds of changes the story needed in the long run.

[Iron_Legion87]

I never really understood the complaint that Rey was a "Mary Sue" or overpowered ( she is part palpatine) . Lets not forget that Luke only had handful of lesson by Yoda and suddenly he was a Jedi master. I guess some fans wanted her to get beat by Kylo similar to Luke when he first fought Vader. That said, I don't care for the Disney trilogy all that much though I do think Force Awakens and Rouge One are pretty good and even Last Jedi has its moments. But Rise of Skywalker single handily ruined the franchise with that weak and nonsensical "finale". Rise of Skywalker is the worst Star Wars movie ever ( it makes Episodes 1 and 2 look Oscar worthy).

[Celestialbeyonder]

TFA’s runaway success was not the output of *only* sticking the words Star Wars on a film starring Harrison Ford in a major role again, in spite of what some people said; that sure as hell helped, but it was also a strong entry on its own thanks to smart characterization choices for the leads and excellent casting.

Absolutely wrong. The sucess of TFA was solely based on the fact that it was the first SW movie in a decade and that it was a continuation of the OT with many people eagre to find out what happened to their beloved characters. It was a very weak entry beeing basically ANH reheated in a microwave and no one really cared about the new cast. Oscar Isaac is basically missing for half the movie - he is nothing more than a secondary character. Gwendoline Christie is a tertiary character as is Gleeson. Driver, Ridley and Boyega were basically no names before TFA and their acting is nothing special. Ridleys acting is actually sub standard.

People who complained about “agendas” when TFA came out were pointlessly bitching for suspicious reasons... and they’re opinion ultimately didn’t matter as the film rolled to a $2 Billion box office and launched the new cast as popular characters for two years.

Again the 2 Billion sucess had nothing to do with the new cast or the movie itself and the new cast was NEVER popular.

The ST started strong with TFA

The ST started weak with TFA, with an unlikable protagonist that was OP as ****. I agree that TLJ could have saved and repaired much - unfortunately it went into the opposite direction. However this should not distract from the fact that in retrospect TFA was an extremely weak entry that started the spiral into failure. Had TFA been a better movie - Johnson would have been unable to **** everything up in TLJ.

[Celestialbeyonder]

I never really understood the complaint that Rey was a "Mary Sue" or overpowered (she is part palpatine)

Talent without training means NOTHING - Luke Skywalker

Lets not forget that Luke only had handful of lesson by Yoda and suddenly he was a Jedi master.

You mean the Luke that had 3 YEARS of self training, then two weeks of training with Yoda and then got slaughtered by a Vader who was at 50%? This "Jedi Master" Luke?

I will never get how people will try to find stupid excuses for Rey beeing OP as **** with 0 or very little training, yet Luke that did much more than her and was weaker than her is considered "OP"...

[Moon Ronin]

Absolutely wrong. The sucess of TFA was solely based on the fact that it was the first SW movie in a decade and that it was a continuation of the OT with many people eagre to find out what happened to their beloved characters. It was a very weak entry beeing basically ANH reheated in a microwave and no one really cared about the new cast. Oscar Isaac is basically missing for half the movie - he is nothing more than a secondary character. Gwendoline Christie is a tertiary character as is Gleeson. Driver, Ridley and Boyega were basically no names before TFA and their acting is nothing special. Ridleys acting is actually sub standard.

I would disagree with the term "solely". It's not like people spent 2 years after comparing theories of who Snoke and Rey were. Or that the second installment of the trilogy didn't make over a billion $$$ becasue people wanted to see where it was going, right?

[Celestialbeyonder]

I would disagree with the term "solely". It's not like people spent 2 years after comparing theories of who Snoke and Rey were. Or that the second installment of the trilogy didn't make over a billion $$$ becasue people wanted to see where it was going, right?

The ST relied heavily on the OT characters for its sucess. People wanted to see TFA because it was the first SW movie in 10 years and they wanted to see where the story of the OT cast went. They wanted to see TLJ to find out what happened to Luke and how he would interact with the new cast. Most of the theories relied on the OT and even PT as well: Is Snoke Mace Windu? Is Rey a Kenobi or Skywalker? Had the ST been set some 70 years after the OT without the OT cast, it would have been far less sucessful.

This is confirmed by the box office:

TFA: 2 Billion
TLJ: 1.4 Billion
TROS 1 Billion

TPM 950 Million (before all the 3d reruns)
AOTC 650 Million
ROTS: 850 Million

While interest into the ST kept declining steadily - corresponding to the treatment of the OT cast - the last installment of the PT trilogy was nearly as sucessfull as the first one, because the people wanted to see how the story ended. Something completely absent from the ST because people didnt care about the new cast/characters.