Page 6 of 15 FirstFirst ... 2345678910 ... LastLast
Results 76 to 90 of 212
  1. #76
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    9,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I really do not understand what you are saying here. Your statement seems self-contradictory, how can viewers have a 'baseline' if that's the first Star Wars movie they see?
    There is somewhere a "not" missing in my sentence. What I meant is that for most viewers the sequels were not their first Star Wars movies.



    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well, by same token Rey's piloting skill demonstration is to maneuver desperately in a ship known for its awesome capabilities in this regard. Without her latent Force abilities she probably would have crashed it quickly. She is never shown to do any combat piloting beyond that. She is never shown flying a starfighter in combat, unlike Luke, Mara Jade, Obi-Wan, Anakin and so on.
    A Starfighter would have been way easier to fly in combat than the Flacon.
    The Falcon is also mostly known for his (hyper space) speed and not for his dog fighting capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Rey's piloting ability seems a product of TFA plot purpose: since Finn and Poe are separated and Finn can't pilot, he needs another pilot to fly him off Jakku.
    That's why they Poe should have been with Finn and Rey.
    Btw. it is really of lazy that Rey's latent Force abilities also manifest in tech and piloting skills, those were specific skills of Anakin (and to some extend Luke) and not how they manifested for every Jedi (at least in the EU).

  2. #77
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    I actually think that criticism of Finn is more an example of TLJ retconning in weaker interpretations and treatments of the characters alongside a refusal to actually advance anyone’s storylines, in a manner similar to what happened to Rey.

    Finn’s actually quite competent in TFA, in spite of being the Patron Saint of the Scrappy Underdog on the films, accomplishing pretty much all of his individual objectives by using some guile, grit, pragmatism, and cooperation: he successfully frees himself and Poe on the fly, successfully evades the FO’s pursuit and secures the escape route he then decides to avoid taking, successfully gets SKBks shields lowered, and successfully ensures Rey’s escape from Kylo Ren and SKB. Yes, he needed help to do all that... but he got that help, and Poe and Rey aren’t successfully flying away without him as a gunner, Han and Chewie aren’t lowering the shields without his guidance, and Rey ain’t escaping Kylo without him holding Kylo off. He’s not physically impressive, but he’s capable enough to do more than, say, Kylo in accomplishing his objectives, and he doesn’t ever make a mistake quite as big as Rey’s when she runs away from Maz’s palace.
    Yes, but this is actually the problem: Finn is the focus character of TFA and pretty much achieves everything one can reasonable expect from such an underdog character rising to the occasion. His character arc is complete at the end of movie. Worse, his character ends TFA in a coma. Even worse, TFA ends in a cliffhanger which whoever writes the next movie has to immediately address. So there is no offscreen time to write his character more powerful. He is still just an average grunt whose only asset for Resistance was that he knew some inside stuff. Compare this to what unique abilities Poe and Rey bring: ace starfighter pilot and Force user, respectively.

    And before you assign too much blame to Rian Johnson, let us not forget what JJ Abrams achieved with Finn once he got the character back, without having the same anchors weighing him down which he had left for Johnson: absolutely nothing. Finn in TRoS is worse than in TLJ.

  3. #78

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Umm, I think you are editing your memories a bit there - Chewbacca and Finn softened up Kylo for her (who didn't even try to kill her)
    Kylo was somewhat wounded, however since his wounds are entirely healed by the next movie which plays around 24 hours after TFA, they could not have been severe. His armour probably absorbed most of the blast. And all Finn did with that one strike was piss Kylo of. Meanwhile Rey was slammed into a tree, lost consciousness, was freezing/suffering from hypothermia and had learned about the force 2 days ago, yet she still managed to defeat a far more experienced force user who, even if he had been at just 10% of his full power, should still have defeated her.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    and they killed Snoke's guards together with Kylo
    She did equally well against the guards as Kylo and when pulling the lightsaber her force pull was equal to Kylo as well. This is quite a problem. Because if one says:

    A) She defeated Kylo in TFA only because he was greatly weakened, it would mean that within 2 days she went from greatly weakened Kylo to as strong as full power Kylo. Which would make her a Marey Sue
    B) She defeated Kylo in TFA because he was somewhat wounded and her powers had allready developed so far that she was a match for him. Which would make her a Marey Sue.

    Not to mention her piloting skills, fighting skills, engeneering skills, language skills, and her total pure goodness - like not killing Kylo/wounding him, despite having the chance to do so when he was unconscious. She is just near perfect in everything she does. Compared to other protagonists, who most of the time are only good at one thing, she is good at nearl everything.

    Neo: Goes through hell before gaining his powers in the Matrix, however outside of the Matrix, he still needs help from everyone and is not really good at anything.
    Thor: Damn powerfull and brilliant warrior, a complete illiterate with technology.
    Hancock: Ridiculously OP - but a complete failure as a human beeing

    Rey: Gets her powers for free without having to actually earn them, ridiculously OP with minimal struggle, pretty good at nearly everything from piloting to technology and a perfectly good human beeing. If she isnt a Marey Sue, she is as close to one as one cant get.

  4. #79
    The King Fears NO ONE! Triniking1234's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,950

    Default

    The Kylo losing to Rey only looks bad cuz they established that he was training since he was a kid. There's also her using the Jedi mind trick without a demonstration like with Obi-Wan in Ep. 4.

    Disney probably thought that Force users are like mutants but with glowing swords.
    "Cable was right!"

  5. #80
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Here, for now.
    Posts
    1,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Rey's non-Force abilities don't seem to be exceptionally unusual compared to Anakin or Luke. It is implied she worked as a mechanic and even pilot for the local crime bosses in-between being a scavenger. Lets not forget that Battle of Yavin was Luke's first gig in an X-Wing, and Anakin was like 10 when he blew up the Droid Command ship, and had NEVER flown any kind of craft either in atmosphere or out of it. His awesome piloting ability came from his Jedi reflexes and few mostly unsuccessful races in 2D-maneuvering racing pods. Oh and he built a whole protocol droid by himself. That's much more impressive than whacking a hyperdrive with a monkey wrench few times.
    I would have to disagree.

    When speaking of his (Luke's) father Obi-Wan said " the best star-pilot in the galaxy" he then notes to Luke that he has "become quite a good pilot yourself" In the Battle of Yavin Luke during the mission briefing, "I used to bullseye womp rats in my T-16 back home. They're not much bigger than two meters." So he can fly and shoot, not in combat, but it's set up that he is no stranger to a cockpit. with Biggs vouching for him as "the best bush pilot in the Outer Rim territories." Maybe as hyperbole but again gives Luke some credentials as a pilot. During the run on the Death Star Luke was saved by Han from being shot down by Vader and would not have used the Force when making the final shot if Obi-Wan had not reached out to him . Luke while hurt had to work to pull his Light Saber from the ice to free himself and escape from the Wampa cave. Here again he would have died if Han hadn't risked freezing to death to find Him. Luke after failing to lift his X-Wing out of the swamp while training with Yoda ran off to save his friends that he knew for years, he failed at doing that too had got his ass handed to him by Vader and is another case were he would have died had Leia who was later reviled to be his sister and therefore a chance to be force sensitive not heard his call for help and came back to him. I think the best scene that best sets up where Luke started out was at Mos Eisley Cantina were Ponda Baba and Dr. Cornelius Evazan try and start a confrontation with him. It shows that Luke as an out of his element farm boy that would have gotten his butt kick at the bar, That to the end of ROTJ where he is a Jedi like his father before him really sets the beginning and end to his journey.

    Anakin was set up that he worked as a repairman in a shop and had a working knowledge of things like Droids to be able to build his own. He is also set up as being a veteran of pod races though he had yet to even finish one, guess to add to the excitement of the race scene. With luck and his "Jedi Reflexes" that Qui-Gon Jinn referred to earlier he was able to win the race by beating that nasty dug Sebulba. During that Battel of Naboo it was shown that he had no clue what did what in the fighter's cockpit and had to have R2's help in doing some things and accidently ended up in the bay of the Droid Command ship and then though sheer luck was able to destroy said ship by hitting a button trying to figure out how to leave. After that He trained as a Jedi so his abilities are easy to explain. Note that Anakin (other than the reflexes thing) does not use the Force in TPM but with the "chosen one" set up and that there was a chance that he was born of the Force to puts some credence to his special abilities and with Luke being his son its a legacy thing.

    Rey is a hot mess. No were in the movies does it say anything about her working as a mechanic or being a pilot for local crime bosses, the best is something about flight simulators and sneaking on to ships in the novelization and companion books. But she is able to out maneuver trained Tie Fighter pilots in a strange ship that in the past required a co-pilot to fly with the only reference is her yelling that she is a pilot before jumping in. Also being a scavenger does not make some one a hyper-drive expert with the ability to repair ships on the fly. She does live somewhere that self defense would be a requirement but she to easily beats stormtroopers that have been trained from a young age in the ways of combat and even go toe to toe with Snoke's
    Elite Praetorian Guard guess the word Elite means something else in a galaxy far far away. She speaks Wookie, Droid, and almost any other language spoken to her to give 3P0 a run for his money. I was almost surprised that she couldn't read the Sith dagger. She escapes her cell on Star Killer Base by using force persuasion, This is the first time she uses the force and it's something that we have only seen people that have trained in the force use, this was horrible. I know they want to go for the "strong independent" lead but they should have let Finn and Han free her. She is the one that saves the day at the Battle of Crete by drawing all of the fighters away and again being a super pilot, then lifting tons of rocks with a few days of hanging out with Luke who didn't seem to teach her anything.

    Rey's fight with Kilo Ren in TFA: This and the death of Han Solo are the best shot scenes in all of Star Wars. I don't see any trouble with Rey standing toe to toe with Ren here. Kilo Ren had just killed his own father from what I saw that was his completion to the dark side but had to have an emotional impact on him as well. On top of that he had just been shoot with Chewie's bowcaster that has been set up through almost the entire movie as a bad ass weapon that has sent stormtroopers flying. So Ren is coming into this fight handicapped and is an easy explanation as to how Rey beat him. The only way that would have made this scene better would have been if this was the first time that Rey used the force. It was already set that the Skywalker Light Saber called out and connected with her so it would have been so much better if she hadn't used force persuasion earlier. Her fight with a "team up" against the Elite Praetorian Guard also takes away from this fight. The fight on the Supremacy only takes place days after her bout with Ren on Star Killer Base and here she is toe to toe with the First Order's most elite hand to hand fighters... not good writing.

    Comparing Rey to Luke and Anakin doesn't work because there was a set up to help explain their abilities and none for Rey. So being over powered is not bad but lack of a reason is. The ball was dropped on her that she can do all of this without explanation, that people have to reach with here being a scrapper so she she can fix everything and fly better than anyone. Last Jedi even made it worst by dubbing her a "nobody" that had to be retconned becasue now legacy couldn't be used as an explanation of her Force prowess. Rey like Finn had great potential after TFA but it was lost for the both of them in TLJ and though it tried TROS could not recover and in ways compounded the trouble with the whole sequel trilogy.

    As to the complaint that she was not "original" is more that she is not a Skywalker in the Skywalker Saga. It goes to the Legacy explanation of ability. Palpatine was a great manipulator but he was never shown to be an "omega" level force user, Windu had him beat if Anakin had not stepped in, yes he beat Yoda but Count Dooku got the best of him too. Rey being a Palpatine really didn't give that Legacy of skill felling as Vader and Luke did. I think that Rey's patrimony of skill was a last ditch effort to both fill in the "Big Bad" that was left void with the death of Snoke and Kilo/Ben's redemption arc and explain Rey's mega abilities in one.. It was a horrible choice but after TLJ's scorched earth of subvert expectations and LFL influence not much else could be done. "But she became a Skywalker at the end!". This too was horrible. Han Solo was what seemed to be the first person to give her an opportunity by offering her 2nd mate on his ship, Leia Organa Solo became her mentor and Jedi instructor, Rey risked her life and the fate of the resistance on Ben Solo who was instrumental in her victory over mean ole grand daddy Palpy so much so she kissed him? (horrible). So she don't go with the name Solo the family she is way more attached to but Skywalker for cheep and again horrible fan service.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 01-04-2021 at 02:52 PM.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  6. #81
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,073

    Default

    Maybe if they had planned the Palpatine thing from the start they could've worked some more clues in, like having her be somewhat gifted with manipulating people somehow (outside the mind trick, that is) rather than the pilot/mechanic skill set that hinted she was either a Skywalker or a Solo (or rather, both, like Ben/Kylo). All we really got was her force lightning and only by the time of ROS. There's some people who have said her theme music has some vague similarities to Palpatine's though....
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  7. #82
    Oni of the Ash Moon Ronin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Here, for now.
    Posts
    1,323

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisIII View Post
    Maybe if they had planned the Palpatine thing from the start they could've worked some more clues in, like having her be somewhat gifted with manipulating people somehow (outside the mind trick, that is) rather than the pilot/mechanic skill set that hinted she was either a Skywalker or a Solo (or rather, both, like Ben/Kylo). All we really got was her force lightning and only by the time of ROS. There's some people who have said her theme music has some vague similarities to Palpatine's though....
    Music can also do Vader/Anakin Luke as a way too.. I really don't think it was a clue there.
    Last edited by Moon Ronin; 01-04-2021 at 01:52 PM.
    Surely not everybody was kung fu fighting

  8. #83
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    5,820

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, but this is actually the problem: Finn is the focus character of TFA and pretty much achieves everything one can reasonable expect from such an underdog character rising to the occasion. His character arc is complete at the end of movie. Worse, his character ends TFA in a coma. Even worse, TFA ends in a cliffhanger which whoever writes the next movie has to immediately address. So there is no offscreen time to write his character more powerful. He is still just an average grunt whose only asset for Resistance was that he knew some inside stuff. Compare this to what unique abilities Poe and Rey bring: ace starfighter pilot and Force user, respectively.

    And before you assign too much blame to Rian Johnson, let us not forget what JJ Abrams achieved with Finn once he got the character back, without having the same anchors weighing him down which he had left for Johnson: absolutely nothing. Finn in TRoS is worse than in TLJ.
    It’s funny how Han can be frozen in carbonite specifically so the actor doesn’t have to come back, but can be thawed out, treated as the main love interest of the heroine, then have an important role in the conflict... but somehow we’re supposed to respect TLJ pretty blatantly trying to use it as an excuse to suddenly pretend Finn caring about Rey is a bad thing, have him lectured on child slavery by a Rose character clearly designed mostly just to be “Not-Rey” that Johnson was apathetic about doing anything more than give theme monologues to, and to shove him into a subplot of a subplot about being useless because Poe is being written as a hot -blooded Hispanic who won’t listen to the badly written white woman.

    I ain’t respecting trash, and I ain’t going to pretend that Johnson’s hand was forced on any damn thing - Kylo was gut shot and cut up on an exploding planet, and Johnson just couldn’t run fast enough to try and remake his entire character as a (pathetic) male lead. If he could determine Finn could be healed off screen in a few hours, which I actually think makes sense given Star Wars’s technology, then he could do something interesting with him, and not display bias against Finn instead.

    Boyega has quite publicly stated he doesn’t blame Abrams for what happened in TROS, which we know for a fact was the only film on the ST that was truly a product of creation by committee... and that an awful lot of evidence seems to show LFL’s decisions in that were about demoting everyone else for Kylo’s sake, including what Abrams originally wanted to be Finn as a Jedi Pirate in that final assault on the Star Destroyer.

    I don’t think LFL would have allowed Abrams to even remotely show what kind of stuff he could do with a Force powered Finn when they were willing to throw Rey’s spine, role in the main conflict, and best villain all under the bus for more Reylo and worshipping Ben Solo.
    Like action, adventure, rogues, and outlaws? Like anti-heroes, femme fatales, mysteries and thrillers?

    I wrote a book with them. Outlaw’s Shadow: A Sherwood Noir. Robin Hood’s evil counterpart, Guy of Gisbourne, is the main character. Feel free to give it a look: https://read.amazon.com/kp/embed?asi...E2PKBNJFH76GQP

  9. #84
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    There is somewhere a "not" missing in my sentence. What I meant is that for most viewers the sequels were not their first Star Wars movies.
    Okay, that makes more sense. I don't really agree though: Anakin in prequels was even more skilled in mundane abilities than Rey. Kylo & Rey had clearly higher level Force abilities than previous protagonists and that was never really properly explored, they just had. Very first Force trick Kylo does is something we have never seen before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    A Starfighter would have been way easier to fly in combat than the Flacon.
    The Falcon is also mostly known for his (hyper space) speed and not for his dog fighting capabilities.
    A starfighter should be much harder to fly than a cargo craft, it just has better abilities once the pilot has mastered them. DC-10 is much easier to fly than F-16. Note how the Rebel commander was worried about Luke's ability to handle an X-Wing before Battle of Yavin. Also, flying a fighter craft in actual combat requires tactical knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    That's why they Poe should have been with Finn and Rey.
    That is a fair point, the trilogy never really required Rey to have piloting skills beyond that scene in TFA - in further storylines she was nearly always partnered with Chewbacca, a super experienced pilot. The writers however probably wanted Finn & Rey meet Han and Chewie without Poe being present, to make the scenes more manageable and have more room to estabilish Finn & Rey's relationship with Han. Three is a crowd sometimes.

    Would the movie had been better that way? Not really, IMO. Biggest problem with Rey's character arc was her unexplained and sudden gain of extremely high Force proficiency and her mundane skills (piloting, tech, fighting) was incidental to that. JJ's attempt for 'mystery box' explanation for that ended up being lame and bush-league and really something which had been done 100 times before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aahz View Post
    Btw. it is really of lazy that Rey's latent Force abilities also manifest in tech and piloting skills, those were specific skills of Anakin (and to some extend Luke) and not how they manifested for every Jedi (at least in the EU).

    I don't think tech proficiency was much if at all linked to Force. It was just something plausible from their backgrounds - Anakin working with Watto, Rey being a tech scavenger. Anakin's podracing and piloting ability was explained partly by his Force reflexes and I think we were supposed to think (in retrospect) that they also explained why Rey was capable of such awesome maneuvering with Falcon. Ditto for Luke, although he was already an experienced bush pilot when we met him and was a big flyboy enthusiast who had probably done plenty of self-studying about starfighter piloting.

    I agree it was lazy that Rey was basically an amalgamate of Anakin and Luke - down-on-her-luck loner on a sand planet with survival skills and secret Force powers. As I said, for some reason writers wanted to bring it out as a surprise that Rey was Force sensitive, and that required that she had a plausible role in the movie before that - that she was useful to Finn and they had motivations sticking with each other. I would have written her as a 'hedge witch', someone similar to Halla in 'Splinter of the Mind's Eye'. Someone with very limited 'parlour trick' level abilities who, after meeting with Han and Kylo and so on, realizes she has much more potential than the petty tricks she had done before.
    Last edited by Ikari; 01-04-2021 at 05:01 PM.

  10. #85
    Spectacular Member Ikari's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Posts
    226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    It’s funny how Han can be frozen in carbonite specifically so the actor doesn’t have to come back, but can be thawed out, treated as the main love interest of the heroine, then have an important role in the conflict... but somehow we’re supposed to respect TLJ pretty blatantly trying to use it as an excuse to suddenly pretend Finn caring about Rey is a bad thing, have him lectured on child slavery by a Rose character clearly designed mostly just to be “Not-Rey” that Johnson was apathetic about doing anything more than give theme monologues to, and to shove him into a subplot of a subplot about being useless because Poe is being written as a hot -blooded Hispanic who won’t listen to the badly written white woman.

    I ain’t respecting trash, and I ain’t going to pretend that Johnson’s hand was forced on any damn thing - Kylo was gut shot and cut up on an exploding planet, and Johnson just couldn’t run fast enough to try and remake his entire character as a (pathetic) male lead. If he could determine Finn could be healed off screen in a few hours, which I actually think makes sense given Star Wars’s technology, then he could do something interesting with him, and not display bias against Finn instead.
    Comparing Han and Finn is a huge misfire. Han was a super capable character right from the beginning and obvious asset for the Rebellion - as plainly stated by Leia in beginning of ESB. Finn was a line grunt whose main asset for the Resistance was that he had been a janitor in Starkiller base. Once that potential was used up, he was little different from hundreds if not thousands of similar mooks Resistance had. When TFA ended we were supposed to think Finn's condition was serious. It would have been felt cheap if he had been just awake at the beginning of the movie "oh I was fine all along". Also, even if he HAD been awake immediately after Rey left, so what? The time jump between Starkiller base fight and the ending of TFA where Rey meets Luke was short - probably like few weeks. What was Finn going to learn in that time?

    By contrast, there WAS a big time jump between TLJ and TRoS, big enough for Rey to learn much about her new abilities, Kylo to track down Palpatine, Resistance to rebuild their combat capabilities...and what they did for Finn? Nothing. He was STILL the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by godisawesome View Post
    Boyega has quite publicly stated he doesn’t blame Abrams for what happened in TROS, which we know for a fact was the only film on the ST that was truly a product of creation by committee... and that an awful lot of evidence seems to show LFL’s decisions in that were about demoting everyone else for Kylo’s sake, including what Abrams originally wanted to be Finn as a Jedi Pirate in that final assault on the Star Destroyer.

    I don’t think LFL would have allowed Abrams to even remotely show what kind of stuff he could do with a Force powered Finn when they were willing to throw Rey’s spine, role in the main conflict, and best villain all under the bus for more Reylo and worshipping Ben Solo.
    So JJ had more bad ideas, no surprise there. I don't know who or what LFL is.
    The reason why they pushed for ReyLo in TRoS was quite simple - their chemistry had been one of the few things in TLJ which most people agreed was good and intriguing. So it's natural they wanted to build on that. Maybe that was a mistake, and maybe they should not have sacrificed everything else to get there. But can't blame them for putting their chips on obvious winning number. Note the completely contrasting treatment of Finn-Rose angle.

    It is amusing that in TRoS, nearly everything Rian Johnson was blamed about - destroying Snoke, ignoring Knights of Ren, keeping Finn useless - was repeated with more gusto. So maybe JJ wasn't lying after all when he said he had read and approved TLJ script!

  11. #86
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,073

    Default

    I don't know, Finn sort of seemed a lot more mature/less comic relief in TROS than in the previous two films, and had some character conflict with Poe who he seemed to almost idolize before. He actually seemed almost a bit out of character.
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

  12. #87
    Astonishing Member dkrook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Posts
    3,347

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yes, but this is actually the problem: Finn is the focus character of TFA and pretty much achieves everything one can reasonable expect from such an underdog character rising to the occasion. His character arc is complete at the end of movie. Worse, his character ends TFA in a coma. Even worse, TFA ends in a cliffhanger which whoever writes the next movie has to immediately address. So there is no offscreen time to write his character more powerful. He is still just an average grunt whose only asset for Resistance was that he knew some inside stuff. Compare this to what unique abilities Poe and Rey bring: ace starfighter pilot and Force user, respectively.

    And before you assign too much blame to Rian Johnson, let us not forget what JJ Abrams achieved with Finn once he got the character back, without having the same anchors weighing him down which he had left for Johnson: absolutely nothing. Finn in TRoS is worse than in TLJ.
    Other than Finn being forced to simp for Rey, dude had way more agency in TROS. Overall KK overlord directives ruined Finn more than either director. She had his romantic opposite lead given to the villain, she killed Finn being a force sensitive ex-stormtrooper. KK wanted to make sure these movies were saccrine clean white princess fantasies. Instead of solidly written sci-fi fantasy.

  13. #88
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    34,011

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dkrook View Post
    Other than Finn being forced to simp for Rey, dude had way more agency in TROS. Overall KK overlord directives ruined Finn more than either director. She had his romantic opposite lead given to the villain, she killed Finn being a force sensitive ex-stormtrooper. KK wanted to make sure these movies were saccrine clean white princess fantasies. Instead of solidly written sci-fi fantasy.
    Was this actually a result of a directive from Kennedy? Kennedy's job is to be producer. She runs Lucasfilm. Her job is to hire creatives and fund their projects. That's it. Little of what she does involves the creative decisions of the movies. If you have a problem with how Finn was used, it is unlikely Kennedy had anything to do with it.

  14. #89
    Extraordinary Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    9,338

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    A starfighter should be much harder to fly than a cargo craft, it just has better abilities once the pilot has mastered them. DC-10 is much easier to fly than F-16.
    Depends how you define fly, if you mean fly from A to B, you are probaly right, if you mean a high speed chase through a wreckage of a Star Destoyer a starfighter is way more suited to that Task than the Falcon.

  15. #90
    Ultimate Member ChrisIII's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    10,073

    Default

    Were Solo's issues (the director switch, mainly) Kathleen Kennedy's call? Not sure if I remember exactly how things played out. There's some fans who think L3 was inspired by her or something like that as well.
    chrism227.wordpress.com Info and opinions on a variety of interests.

    https://twitter.com/chrisprtsmouth

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •