DC universes relationship with secret identities

[Tzigone]

Characters with secret identities barely have a personal life nowadays either since the stories still focus on the superhero stuff.

Which is a problem for me.

Besides you could easily still have a personal life even if you're openly a superhero if a writer really wanted to write it. It's just nowadays writers and readers care more about the superhero stuff so that's what gets all the focus.. regardless of whether or not they have a secret

Realistically, it'd be a lot harder for the hero to be treated like an "ordinary person" instead of a celebrity by people who casually know the hero, and a lot of people value that. Might be less likely to be hired if potential employers think they'd be called away. Might have to hire someone to handle all the calls and letters people would know where to send. More personal stuff would end up in tabloids. And, of course, the level of danger to your relatives. Especially those who have aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents (a lot more people).

[Frontier]

Characters with secret identities barely have a personal life nowadays either since the stories still focus on the superhero stuff. Besides you could easily still have a personal life even if you're openly a superhero if a writer really wanted to write it. It's just nowadays writers and readers care more about the superhero stuff so that's what gets all the focus.. regardless of whether or not they have a secret identity

It's true that it's been an issue for a while now that writers have been over-emphasizing or focusing on the Superhero side at the expense of anything else, but I feel like I see a correlation between a lack of a secret identity and a lack of focus on the heroes life outside their costume, because having one actually gave them an excuse to take the costume off and interact with normal people on a more consistent basis.

[Agent Z]

Characters with secret identities barely have a personal life nowadays either since the stories still focus on the superhero stuff. Besides you could easily still have a personal life even if you're openly a superhero if a writer really wanted to write it. It's just nowadays writers and readers care more about the superhero stuff so that's what gets all the focus.. regardless of whether or not they have a secret identity

For instance, Batman barely associates with anyone who isn't a superhero and Grant Morrison's Green Lantern had a story about how difficult it was for Hal to feel at home on Earth after having been in space for so long.

Realistically, it'd be a lot harder for the hero to be treated like an "ordinary person" instead of a celebrity by people who casually know the hero, and a lot of people value that. Might be less likely to be hired if potential employers think they'd be called away. Might have to hire someone to handle all the calls and letters people would know where to send. More personal stuff would end up in tabloids. And, of course, the level of danger to your relatives. Especially those who have aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents (a lot more people).

This assumes that being a superhero would make the person a celebrity. There are plenty of actors in real life who aren't celebrities or even particularly well known. Even being a celebrity hero doesn't preclude being written like a normal person as seen with Wonder Woman and She-Hulk. People just need to not have such a narrow idea of what being an ordinary person entails. Not all experiences are universal and people don't read superhero comics to see the exact same stories.

[Frontier]

For instance, Batman barely associates with anyone who isn't a superhero and Grant Morrison's Green Lantern had a story about how difficult it was for Hal to feel at home on Earth after having been in space for so long.

He has a whole company and employees though. He makes face-time as Bruce Wayne, we just don't really see it that much.

And Morrison's Hal is just one take on Hal.

This assumes that being a superhero would make the person a celebrity. There are plenty of actors in real life who aren't celebrities or even particularly well known. Even being a celebrity hero doesn't preclude being written like a normal person as seen with Wonder Woman and She-Hulk. People just need to not have such a narrow idea of what being an ordinary person entails. Not all experiences are universal and people don't read superhero comics to see the exact same stories.

I think the average Superhero would probably be more well-known than a celebrity considering how active they are and what they do.

Jen makes for a much better argument than Diana does. But even Jen has had identity issues with whether she should be She-Hulk all the time instead of Jennifer Walters.

[Agent Z]

He has a whole company and employees though. He makes face-time as Bruce Wayne, we just don't really see it that much.

My point exactly.

Jen makes for a much better argument than Diana does. But even Jen has had identity issues with whether she should be She-Hulk all the time instead of Jennifer Walters.

Well the average person can certainly relate to having identity issues. And Diana has had a supporting cast of normal people in almost every run even if they aren't always the same. On average, she interacts with normal people far more often than Bruce Wayne.

[The Darknight Detective]

I think the average Superhero would probably be more well-known than a celebrity considering how active they are and what they do.

Agreed. I don't really think it's arguable, either.

[Jon-El]

There was a story in the 70’s where for various reasons, Superman had to decide whether he would be Clark Kent full time or a super hero. If I remember correctly, when he was Superman full time, he could never unwind with Jimmy and the gang. Everyone expected him to be out catching bad guys or saving people. Eventually, he realizes he needs the balance that each identity gives him.

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[SiegePerilous02]

I think the secret ID is essential for three specific characters: Superman, Batman and Spider-Man. The dichotomy for the former is especially important. He's just not as interesting without trying to find the balance between the Super and the Man (for ex: the great scene in "Jungle Line" where his two personas are arguing in his dream). That isn't to say stories cannot be explored where they lose the secret IDs. I think Clark losing it is a natural progression of his story, even if the execution by Bendis may not be the best. But the idea of a major version of Clark not bothering with the secret ID is very unappealing to me, it misses the point of one of the most interesting facets of the character.

Other characters work as well either way or better without the secret. Wonder Woman being the big one, but a lot of the Marvel cast as well. At least the ones who make up the Avengers.

[John Venus]

I'm not a fan of heroes lying, manipulating, gas lighting or outright mind wiping their loved ones for the sake of 'protecting' them. Hated in Robinson's Starman, hated it in Smallville, hated it in Raimi's Spider-man, hated Wally West and later Daredevil mind wiping everyone after revealing his secret identity in the comics, hated Martian Manhunter mind wiping his detective girlfriend in his ongoing run.

Also for characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, it felt like their secret identities were just them paying fealty to comic book tropes. I was so glad that the movies ditched it. IM may have revealed his secret id in 2006 but more people have seen the movie than read the comic. It was really 'I am Iron Man' and the subsequent solo and team up movies ditching the secret id that really created the sea change with secret id's not being viable.

I think ultimately, it comes down to the character. I think Superman, Batman,, Flash and Spider-man need their secret ID's and there are plausible explanations for how they maintain it. There are story lines that could be told with their identities being outed but I don't think it works as a long term fix. Plus I think there is still some power left in the metaphor of having to hide a part of yourself from the rest of the world. That said, trying to give Wonder Woman and Jay Garrick a secret identity has always felt like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It just doesn't fit. I can however, see WW (and Zee) going incognito like many RL celebrities do to avoid being bombarded by mobs and paparazzi.

There are some characters like Daredevil, Wally West, Oliver Queen, Hal Jordan who can temporarily maintain a secret identity but are either outed by a third party or they decide to unmask themselves which can lead to their own interesting story lines. I don't think Ted Grant can maintain a secret identity either, if Mike Tyson decided to put on a mask and start beating people up on the street you would still know that it's Mike Tyson.

Then there are characters who don't need a secret identity at all, like the aforementioned Wonder Woman, Jay Garrick, Zatanna, John Stewart, Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy, Aquaman, Mera, Elongated Man, etc.

[DrNewGod]

I'm not a fan of heroes lying, manipulating, gas lighting or outright mind wiping their loved ones for the sake of 'protecting' them. Hated in Robinson's Starman, hated it in Smallville, hated it in Raimi's Spider-man, hated Wally West and later Daredevil mind wiping everyone after revealing his secret identity in the comics, hated Martian Manhunter mind wiping his detective girlfriend in his ongoing run.

Also for characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Thor, it felt like their secret identities were just them paying fealty to comic book tropes. I was so glad that the movies ditched it. IM may have revealed his secret id in 2006 but more people have seen the movie than read the comic. It was really 'I am Iron Man' and the subsequent solo and team up movies ditching the secret id that really created the sea change with secret id's not being viable.

I think ultimately, it comes down to the character. I think Superman, Batman,, Flash and Spider-man need their secret ID's and there are plausible explanations for how they maintain it. There are story lines that could be told with their identities being outed but I don't think it works as a long term fix. Plus I think there is still some power left in the metaphor of having to hide a part of yourself from the rest of the world. That said, trying to give Wonder Woman and Jay Garrick a secret identity has always felt like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. It just doesn't fit. I can however, see WW (and Zee) going incognito like many RL celebrities do to avoid being bombarded by mobs and paparazzi.

There are some characters like Daredevil, Wally West, Oliver Queen, Hal Jordan who can temporarily maintain a secret identity but are either outed by a third party or they decide to unmask themselves which can lead to their own interesting story lines. I don't think Ted Grant can maintain a secret identity either, if Mike Tyson decided to put on a mask and start beating people up on the street you would still know that it's Mike Tyson.

Then there are characters who don't need a secret identity at all, like the aforementioned Wonder Woman, Jay Garrick, Zatanna, John Stewart, Cyborg, Starfire, Beast Boy, Aquaman, Mera, Elongated Man, etc.

Funny thing about Jay. Early on, whether he was public or not was highly ambiguous. It was in the late '40s (I think) that it became explicit that he had a secret identity.

[The Kid]

It was really 'I am Iron Man' and the subsequent solo and team up movies ditching the secret id that really created the sea change with secret id's not being viable.

Man, that was such a good scene. It's funny because I remember watching that first Iron Man movie with my friends and they were completely mind blown by that ending since a superhero just revealing his identity like that seemed unfathomable based on the superhero movies we had seen before. They were convinced the sequel was going to have Tony trying to convince people he was lying or that he'd try and trick the world into believing he wasn't Iron Man just because the idea of a public hero didn't vibe with them who grew up on Raimi Spider-Man, Superman Returns, Batman Begins etc..

And then Iron Man 2's opening scene is Stark openly showing off for a crowd in his suit and the rest of the MCU basically followed his steps showing that getting rid of the secret identity has zero effect on good stories

[Frontier]

My point exactly.

And fans complain about it. There was just recently a thread about how Bruce has no friends outside the Superhero community or those who become villains.

Well the average person can certainly relate to having identity issues. And Diana has had a supporting cast of normal people in almost every run even if they aren't always the same. On average, she interacts with normal people far more often than Bruce Wayne.

But the kind of identity issues for Superheroes necessitate double identities (at least to some extent).

As a whole Diana's more consistent supporting cast are people in the government who work with her on missions.

Funny thing about Jay. Early on, whether he was public or not was highly ambiguous. It was in the late '40s (I think) that it became explicit that he had a secret identity.

I think that's where they established he vibrated his face so people couldn't see what he looked like.

And then Iron Man 2's opening scene is Stark openly showing off for a crowd in his suit and the rest of the MCU basically followed his steps showing that getting rid of the secret identity has zero effect on good stories

That's not necessarily an indicator that you can't tell good stories with them though, most of the MCU heroes are just heroes full time and don't really have a life outside being Superheroes with few excceptions.

[The Kid]

And fans complain about it. There was just recently a thread about how Bruce has no friends outside the Superhero community or those who become villains.

But the kind of identity issues for Superheroes necessitate double identities (at least to some extent).

As a whole Diana's more consistent supporting cast are people in the government who work with her on missions.

I think that's where they established he vibrated his face so people couldn't see what he looked like.

That's not necessarily an indicator that you can't tell good stories with them though, most of the MCU heroes are just heroes full time and don't really have a life outside being Superheroes with few excceptions.

Yea but you don't need a secret identity to have civilian allies or friends. It's been shown by now that it is extremely easy to write a cast of friends for a superhero if even if their identity is known to them. That's probably one of the biggest reasons why the trope has declined so much: stories play almost the same without them. Diana Prince added nothing to Wonder Woman so they shed it and what do you know.. like Agent Z said, she still interacts with regular people and she honestly interacts with them more than Bruce Wayne does.

I'm not saying secret identities are bad. But I am saying they are mostly irrelevant and superheroes shouldn't stick to them just because that's what tropes say they should do from the beginning. Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil.. they can keep them because they add to their characters and their personalities but if you're only giving a secret identity for the sake of it, you can easily discard it without any problem.

[Frontier]

Yea but you don't need a secret identity to have civilian allies or friends. It's been shown by now that it is extremely easy to write a cast of friends for a superhero if even if their identity is known to them. That's probably one of the biggest reasons why the trope has declined so much: stories play almost the same without them. Diana Prince added nothing to Wonder Woman so they shed it and what do you know.. like Agent Z said, she still interacts with regular people and she honestly interacts with them more than Bruce Wayne does.

I'm not saying secret identities are bad. But I am saying they are mostly irrelevant and superheroes shouldn't stick to them just because that's what tropes say they should do from the beginning. Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, Daredevil.. they can keep them because they add to their characters and their personalities but if you're only giving a secret identity for the sake of it, you can easily discard it without any problem.

Does she though? I think she interacts with them as Wonder Woman as much as Bruce does as Batman when he's on a case that involves people that aren't necessarily criminals or other heroes. And I mean, she's Diana Prince in the movies and it gets brought back in the comics every blue moon, so it's not something they've ever permanently dropped.

Public identity heroes just don't seem to have a wide swath of normal friends outside their Superhero lives, from what I've seen.

[Goldrake]

Which is a problem for me.

Realistically, it'd be a lot harder for the hero to be treated like an "ordinary person" instead of a celebrity by people who casually know the hero, and a lot of people value that. Might be less likely to be hired if potential employers think they'd be called away. Might have to hire someone to handle all the calls and letters people would know where to send. More personal stuff would end up in tabloids. And, of course, the level of danger to your relatives. Especially those who have aunts/uncles/cousins/grandparents (a lot more people).

Aquaman lives in Amnesty and has no problems living as a normal person. So it depends on the character, his/her history.