If superman isn't vigilante,then what is the purpose of the secret identity?

[manwhohaseverything]

Superman was concieved as a vigilante akin to zorro.He was also an alien in hiding as well.If he isn't a vigilante running from the state.If his alien background doesn't frighten people.What is the need for the secret identity in the first place?wanting a private life as celebrity hero is one thing.Would anyone jump through this much hoops for that purpose other than hannah montana.The secret id was a way to cope with that and to make people ease into superman figure.

[Steel Inquisitor]

Zorro hid his identity because he and his loved ones would be hunted down by his enemies, and he wasn't the only pulp hero who did this. Not very pulp hero was openly doing things like Doc Savage.The fact Superman is an alien is an integral part of his mythos, and he needs to blend in to not be hunted by down psychopaths or be harassing by the media for not being human as a child, which is reason enough. His secret identity is vital, and something he inherited from the pulp heroes, because he wanted to have a life and the being a super-hero meant it was open season on his loved ones if they knew about them and since he cares about his friends, families and co-workers not being tortured and murdered by people like Lex Luthor to get to him. Most people will do those things for those reasons, yes. It's part of what makes him human, he's not an alien who can't conceive of protecting his loved ones from harm and likes being able to go shipping without being harrassed by strangers or assassins.

[manwhohaseverything]

Zorro hid his identity because he and his loved ones would be hunted down by his enemies, and he wasn't the only pulp hero who did this.

He was essentially hunted by corrupt burrocrats that were more powerful than him,that could not only kill him.But,anyone who he knew.It made sense.for doc savage and clark as well.Clark was fight a corrupt system itself which can kill even a superman.Now,Superman is very much not doing that.Lex luthor isn't more powerful.Never was.

If superman is just fighting supernatural foe.Everyone of his supernatural villains can easily findout who clark is if they cared enough.These guys are twelveth level intellects and stuff like that.His villains are gods and monsters.for brainiac,lois lane or jimmy olsen is less than a cochroach.Using a secret id to hide from humans is one thing.Superman should need more than that to protect his loved ones from that. Conquering dirty player villains like Mongul should show up at daily planet and take lois to warworld as a bargaining chip any day.why? otherwise you are selling these god tier villains short.Doomsday should be able sniff out superman and his scent,smash the dailyplanet for having the scent he hates.

[Jim Kelly]

It's not Zorro, it's the Scarlet Pimpernel. The Pimpernel created in 1905, Zorro created in 1919. Zorro was copying the Primpernel. And Sir Percy Blakeney wasn't so much a vigilante as he was a political activist/secret soldier/spy. Nor was Don Diego really a vigilante--he was a resistance fighter.

[manwhohaseverything]

It's not Zorro, it's the Scarlet Pimpernel. The Pimpernel created in 1905, Zorro created in 1919. Zorro was copying the Primpernel. And Sir Percy Blakeney wasn't so much a vigilante as he was a political activist/secret soldier/spy. Nor was Don Diego really a vigilante--he was a resistance fighter.

what i meant was superman, was inspired by zorro.Isn't that abit of splitting straws?A resistance fighter is more than likely on the run from the system.Essentially,for the system you are a vigilante.Trying to take law into your own hands.

[Kuwagaton]

I meant to say this in the thread about how Clark is viewed, but it's a problem I have with the idea that Clark is supposed to be invisible and forgettable: it totally makes sense but in operation Clark is incredibly visible. He goes around talking to people all day pretty much if he's relevant yo the story we're reading, and he spent a good decade and a half on tv to low ball it. Clark is his ear to the ground no matter how productive he is as Superman.

And at some point whatever that life provided for him became important to the mythos, to the point of being his "real identity" in modern times. It's his peace amd quiet, his roving fortress.

What does that say about his operations as Superman? Eh well, I think Superman being a vigilante is as important culturally and within comics as the Ninja turtles all having the same mask color

[SecretWarrior]

Power invites challenge

[The World]

I don't really get the "but think of his loved ones" thing. The Kent's just got resurrected from nothingness because Manhattan felt Superman had enough goodboy points saved up, Jason Todd is alive after decades dead because of a reality punch, Damian Wayne is alive because Batman felt like it. There's no such thing as life and death in the DCU, the writers destroyed it. His loved ones aren't in danger and given the floated idea that "Superman doesn't kill because he's borderline all powerful and doesn't need to resort to that sort of thing" you'd think he'd be able to keep the people close to him safe given that's his job.

For all intents and purposes there is no real concept of life and death in the DCU anymore. Years of the writers both want high stakes and no real consequences to the characters if the get in a tight spot. You're only in danger if you end up in situation like poor Alfred where you're neither anyone's vicarious fantasy nor are you the object of someone's lust, e.g. Jack Drake. It's why everything in the modern DCU is so meaningless, sure there's a lot of shouting and drama but what does any of it really mean?

[manwhohaseverything]

I meant to say this in the thread about how Clark is viewed, but it's a problem I have with the idea that Clark is supposed to be invisible and forgettable: it totally makes sense but in operation Clark is incredibly visible. He goes around talking to people all day pretty much if he's relevant yo the story we're reading, and he spent a good decade and a half on tv to low ball it. Clark is his ear to the ground no matter how productive he is as Superman.

And at some point whatever that life provided for him became important to the mythos, to the point of being his "real identity" in modern times. It's his peace amd quiet, his roving fortress.

i got a bit side tracked.what i am saying is,I don't think secret id was supposed to be this ever persistant part of clark's life.I mean,who would want to live a double life till death.Maybe the story of superman might have had secret id till the third act.But,we are essentially past the third act now.Clark is married.He's got a kid.American people accepted the superman figure alien or otherwise.Heck!he has become their savior now,gone past champion mode.So,is there a reason to hang on to superman secret id?So,in that regard.Isn't bendis's idea progressing the narrative?

[Jim Kelly]

what i meant was superman, was inspired by zorro.Isn't that abit of splitting straws?A resistance fighter is more than likely on the run from the system.Essentially,for the system you are a vigilante.Trying to take law into your own hands.

The reason the Scarlet Pimpernel stands out for me is that I remember in the early 1970s reading somewhere (not sure where) that Superman/Clark Kent had been inspired by (among others) the Scarlet Pimpernel. And I took out the book from the school library and read THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL and saw what they meant. Because the Clark Kent identity and his relationship to Lois Lane is so strongly similar to Percy and his sad relationship with his wife. To be sure there's some of that with Don Diego also, but it's much more obvious with Percy. And Baroness Orczy created the Scarlet Pimpernel--women get so little credit, I wanted to be sure that another woman wasn't being passed over for recognition.

Vigilantes are people that take the law into their own hands to go after criminals. I don't see the Pimpernel or Zorro doing that. They are both fighting against the legitimate forces of the state--they might not agree that those people should be in power, but they aren't really acting as crimefighters.

If Americans hadn't so thoroughly abused the term to make it unusable, I'd say the early Superman was less a vigilante and more a "social justice warrior." He's fighting the corrupt system to make life better for the average Joe.

Anyway, whether he's a vigilante or something else, that's just the device for Superman to have a secret identity. The real thematic concern is the dual identity--how Superman humiliates himself as Clark Kent (like the Pimpernel humiliates himself in his public persona as Sir Percy) and the derision that this attracts from Lois and others. Siegel and Shuster are getting at their own personal psycho-trauma as Jewish men who have been put down and abused all their lives. They want to show the Superman that everyone feels they are inside yet also the Clark Kent role they are forced to play in public.

[Cyberstrike]

It can also be used to create stories that doesn't require Superman to punch a bad guy. Say Clark looses his pay check as Superman while fighting an enemy. Clark's rent is due and he lost his pay check and his rent is due. Lois is out of town covering another story and she doesn't have the money to pay the rent anyway, Perry are out of town on business and he's busy so he can't cut him a new check and Bruce Wayne is busy as Batman (and is sick and tied of everybody hitting him up for money). He can't go to any of the other JLA members because they don't know his secret ID and he doesn't want to put anyone else risk, the ones that do know his secret identity they're either busy and/or don't have the money to loan him. So now Clark has to work as a bouncer at a seedy nightclub in Metropolis that has some people that are up to no good but Clark can't bust them because he needs the money as a bouncer to cover the rent for his and Lois' apartment.

Now tell me that isn't interesting storyline for a Superman comic.

[bat39]

The purpose of Superman's secret identity is simply for him to be able to have a personal life beyond being the savior of mankind.

Also, he was raised as Clark Kent and, in most continuities, spent a chunk of his life (at least his formative years), believing that he is Clark Kent and no one else. So it makes sense that he self-identifies as Clark and would want to preserve that identity in some form - even if it requires putting on glasses and acting 'mild-mannered'.

Frankly, most superheroes are on reasonably good terms with the authorities anyway. Hell, the Silver Age was the height of secret identities being sacrosanct, and that was also the era where the superheroes were basically super-cops. So the idea that superheroes at odds with authority are the only ones who need to hide their identities makes little sense.

[Alpha]

I actually don't mind the current status quo of the world knowing his identity (but I hate that they aged up Jon Kent). There are several interesting and fun moments that can come from him being public and I think it's okay to leave it like that a while longer. But Clark being both Clark and Superman without most people knowing is a fantastic thing. I would recommend you "Superman: Secret Identity", a 4 issue mini series by Kurt Busiek that among other things really gets you into the mindset of Clark.

If I were to write a Superman origin story the first thing I would make clear is that Clark would have a life in Metropolis before he became Superman. He would be trying to meet people, create a friendships specially with Jimmy Olsen who would teach him how to live in a city, and he would have long conversations with Lois Lane over his fundamental values. His first year in Metropolis Clark would spend New Year's Eve in a bar with his co workers exausted from work. He would walk back home deep into the night with Lois and Jimmy and then sleep in Jimmy's couch and when they woke up Jimmy would share a weird breakfast with him like Chocolate chip cookies dipped in cheese.

I think Clark should over the years grow a deep relationship with his coworkers even after he stops working at the Daily Planet. Twice a year he would visit each of them and talk about one thing or another. And these relationships are more interesting if they only see him as Clark Kent. He should have the same thing with Bibbo and his neighbours, and maybe a local bookshop owner. These are the types of relationships that Bruce Wayne, Hal Jordan and Arthur Curry don't have.

[manwhohaseverything]

It can also be used to create stories that doesn't require Superman to punch a bad guy. Say Clark looses his pay check as Superman while fighting an enemy.

while,clark might needs the job to pay the bill.He needs to eat.He doesn't do it for the pay check.He does it because he likes to write.Even if he looses the daily planet job,he has a pen and paper or the internet.It wouldn't be much of a problem.As for getting a paycheck.The guy is multitalented.But,Getting rich is not part of his agenda.He could have amassed money,anytime he wanted.Even if he did,he would have had to give it all away other than what he needs to survive.So,he sees no point in being rich.with that,i could see clark opting for some blue collar job.

The purpose of Superman's secret identity is simply for him to be able to have a personal life beyond being the savior of mankind.

Having a double life is not having a personal life.It's essentially faking it.Some would argue it's creepy.Especially,for a flimsy reason as privacy.

[Robanker]

Minor thing, but it speaks a lot to the immigrant experience in the United States. I'm first generation, so it touches on my experiences less, but it plays to the idea that Clark is the "American" face he puts on in public whereas Superman is his "Kryptonian" face. A lot of people, in order to assimilate and moreso back in the 30s, needed to shave off everything about them that seemed foreign so they could be accepted by the general populace. You'll see this with a lot of people who have very ethnic names also having their "American" name, so Huang may go by David at work.

It plays into the core thematic about Superman's heritage being so alien that he compartmentalizes it to fit in, to feel like one of us because while he was raised here and thinks of himself as a citizen of Earth, if he comes across too foreign he gets rejected and labeled "foreign visitor" instead of "resident." I think removing it does hurt the character long-term, though it can make for interesting stories in the immediate timescale.

Finally, I think Clark is his off-time, so to speak. Of course, he uses that time to go-to-work (probably the most alien thing about him lol) but it really is just that the guy needs a minute to power down. He's a person too! I know we like to remember/think of him as our champion endlessly trying to save us from ourselves, but he grew up Clark Kent of Smallville and is also Kal-El of Krypton-- he's a person with wants, needs and goals for his life. He's fictional, of course, but I'd hope anyone who devotes that much time to others finds some time for themselves as well to just fulfill their needs. You'll find a lot of critics of him asking why we have problems at all and why he bothers with the newspaper if he can keep saving lives and it comes down to "why isn't Superman our slave, working until he dies?"

He's a man. Clark gives him the opportunity to return to society as one of us, see things from our level and just live a life he wants to live when he's not busy being our champion. He's very important. I dislike how much he gets pushed over Kal (which again, comes across as second+ generation Americans forgetting he has an entire other side to him) but I also favor nurture to nature, so in some level I probably think of him as 60% Clark/ 40% Kal. I'd split more evenly, but most of his foundational years were 100% human and he only discovered his heritage later in life, so I imagine that had an effect.

But "I'm a guy from Kansas" is always going to carry a huge asterisk as far as I'm concerned.