If superman isn't vigilante,then what is the purpose of the secret identity?

[Frontier]

Is Superman not a vigilante?

[Robanker]

Is Superman not a vigilante?

Technically until he's deputized, but most think of vigilantes as being hunted by the law as well and the cops like Superman, so he doesn't qualify in most's mind.

"Vigilante" in DC tends to mean "Batman," not "Superman" or "Black Canary."

All superheroes are vigilantes. Even Barry, because he's not acting as a member of the CCPD when operating as The Flash.

[Frontier]

Technically until he's deputized, but most think of vigilantes as being hunted by the law as well and the cops like Superman, so he doesn't qualify in most's mind.

"Vigilante" in DC tends to mean "Batman," not "Superman" or "Black Canary."

All superheroes are vigilantes. Even Barry, because he's not acting as a member of the CCPD when operating as The Flash.

Personally I think of vigilante's as people who fight crime without being duly authorized to do so and as such are not obligated to follow the law to the letter, so basically every Superhero, it just doesn't get brought up as much because most law enforcement in Superhero settings are fine with Superheroes doing things the way they do.

Black Canary is totally a vigilante, especially since Green Arrow is.

[Robanker]

Personally I think of vigilante's as people who fight crime without being duly authorized to do so and as such are not obligated to follow the law to the letter, so basically every Superhero, it just doesn't get brought up as much because most law enforcement in Superhero settings are fine with Superheroes doing things the way they do.

Black Canary is totally a vigilante, especially since Green Arrow is.

I agree entirely, but I'm just saying that cognitive dissonance is strong. Think of it as a roundabout. Lots of people see them in movies and how they're to be driven but when they come up on one they just drive right through them because "derp it's road."

"Vigilante" to the layman means Batman, Charlie Bronson in Death Wish, or The Punisher. They don't think Spider-Man.

[manwhohaseverything]

Is Superman not a vigilante?

well,if he is working with the government and police.Then i would have to assume he isn't breaking any law or taking the law into his own hands.He certainly isn't running from the police or pissing them off with a big s on his chest.@jim kelly calls the likes of superman and zorro as resistance fighters.I guess,that's true as well.Even in that regard, he would need to be resisting some sort of tyranny.Metropolis doesn't feel like it's under any.I feel superman is some sort of santioned free agent.I mean,he does get the key to the city all the time.I feel Superman is seen as essentially honorary law enforcement.Even the president and state asks the guy to go on missions and stuff.Legality of that i have no clue about.I feel superman is more akin to allmight .The superheroes are santioned entities.

with batman,it feels more pronounced.Sometimes he's working with the just gordan in secret.Sometimes he becomes this hero,they summon with signal.Then he goes right back to being hunted by the police.Spiderman has the same tense dynamic.Heck!spidey gets shitty treatment by the media as well.With superman,there isn't any dynamic.He is pretty much treated like celeb by the police.Maggie and dan implicitly trusts superman as well.Gordan on the other hand,kicks himself for trusting batman.

[Alpha]

Having a double life is not having a personal life.It's essentially faking it.Some would argue it's creepy.Especially,for a flimsy reason as privacy.

What the hell are you talking about? If Clark has to dramtically change his personality then sure, it's soemthing else. But if he is just being himself than how is it something other than a personal life?

[Alpha]

Minor thing, but it speaks a lot to the immigrant experience in the United States. I'm first generation, so it touches on my experiences less, but it plays to the idea that Clark is the "American" face he puts on in public whereas Superman is his "Kryptonian" face. A lot of people, in order to assimilate and moreso back in the 30s, needed to shave off everything about them that seemed foreign so they could be accepted by the general populace. You'll see this with a lot of people who have very ethnic names also having their "American" name, so Huang may go by David at work.

It plays into the core thematic about Superman's heritage being so alien that he compartmentalizes it to fit in, to feel like one of us because while he was raised here and thinks of himself as a citizen of Earth, if he comes across too foreign he gets rejected and labeled "foreign visitor" instead of "resident." I think removing it does hurt the character long-term, though it can make for interesting stories in the immediate timescale.

Finally, I think Clark is his off-time, so to speak. Of course, he uses that time to go-to-work (probably the most alien thing about him lol) but it really is just that the guy needs a minute to power down. He's a person too! I know we like to remember/think of him as our champion endlessly trying to save us from ourselves, but he grew up Clark Kent of Smallville and is also Kal-El of Krypton-- he's a person with wants, needs and goals for his life. He's fictional, of course, but I'd hope anyone who devotes that much time to others finds some time for themselves as well to just fulfill their needs. You'll find a lot of critics of him asking why we have problems at all and why he bothers with the newspaper if he can keep saving lives and it comes down to "why isn't Superman our slave, working until he dies?"

He's a man. Clark gives him the opportunity to return to society as one of us, see things from our level and just live a life he wants to live when he's not busy being our champion. He's very important. I dislike how much he gets pushed over Kal (which again, comes across as second+ generation Americans forgetting he has an entire other side to him) but I also favor nurture to nature, so in some level I probably think of him as 60% Clark/ 40% Kal. I'd split more evenly, but most of his foundational years were 100% human and he only discovered his heritage later in life, so I imagine that had an effect.

But "I'm a guy from Kansas" is always going to carry a huge asterisk as far as I'm concerned.

The thing is that Clark isn't really the typical first generation immigrat. He only learned anything about his world in his twenties. Before that he grew up as the son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. That's all. He resembles much more a second generation immigrant.

[manwhohaseverything]

What the hell are you talking about? If Clark has to dramtically change his personality then sure, it's soemthing else. But if he is just being himself than how is it something other than a personal life?

Even with the most non-exaggerated version of clark kent glasses persona.It's not exactly being himself.He is essentially lieing to everyone's face.

The thing is that Clark isn't really the typical first generation immigrat. He only learned anything about his world in his twenties. Before that he grew up as the son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. That's all. He resembles much more a second generation immigrant.

is superman the son of jonathan and mary or jonathan and martha?is clark an orphan found by a passing motocyclist?was clark a grown man when he landed who was taken around the town by jimmy olsen?is he kal el with photographic memory of his world as a toddler?Regardless,the name is just a label.if he was'nt an alien,jonathan wouldn't have asked the guy to hide himself.Clark wouldn't have been racing locomotives.Clark wouldn't be assembling alien or advanced tech.so on and so forth.One does not need to know he is something,to act out the traits of that something.A bird doesn't know it is called a bird by humans .does it?We call it a bird,because it shows certain attributes that we have classified and associated with that term,normally.Clark is an alien,that might looks like us and has certain similarities to us.He might not know what he is.But,he does act out being an alien.

[Robanker]

The thing is that Clark isn't really the typical first generation immigrat. He only learned anything about his world in his twenties. Before that he grew up as the son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. That's all. He resembles much more a second generation immigrant.

He learns he's different at puberty in most takes, so even if he doesn't know where his other culture is from, he know's he's different and has to hide it. That alone speaks to it.

[Frontier]

well,if he is working with the government and police.Then i would have to assume he isn't breaking any law or taking the law into his own hands.He certainly isn't running from the police or pissing them off with a big s on his chest.@jim kelly calls the likes of superman and zorro as resistance fighters.I guess,that's true as well.Even in that regard, he would need to be resisting some sort of tyranny.Metropolis doesn't feel like it's under any.I feel superman is some sort of santioned free agent.I mean,he does get the key to the city all the time.I feel Superman is seen as essentially honorary law enforcement.Even the president and state asks the guy to go on missions and stuff.Legality of that i have no clue about.I feel superman is more akin to allmight .The superheroes are santioned entities.

with batman,it feels more pronounced.Sometimes he's working with the just gordan in secret.Sometimes he becomes this hero,they summon with signal.Then he goes right back to being hunted by the police.Spiderman has the same tense dynamic.Heck!spidey gets shitty treatment by the media as well.With superman,there isn't any dynamic.He is pretty much treated like celeb by the police.Maggie and dan implicitly trusts superman as well.Gordan on the other hand,kicks himself for trusting batman.

Neither is The Flash, who has his own museum and statue in Central City, but I would still classify him as a vigilante.

Ms. Marvel gets along with the Jersey City police. Would still classify her as a vigilante because she's an unlicensed Superhero fighting crime on her own terms who hides her identity from the public.

When Green Lantern fights crime in Coast City, I view him as a vigilante, even if in space he is basically a duly authorized police officer.

Gordon's trust in Batman is usually pretty validated. There is an immense trust and faith between Bruce and Gordon.

[Alpha]

Even with the most non-exaggerated version of clark kent glasses persona.It's not exactly being himself.He is essentially lieing to everyone's face.


is superman the son of jonathan and mary or jonathan and martha?is clark an orphan found by a passing motocyclist?was clark a grown man when he landed who was taken around the town by jimmy olsen?is he kal el with photographic memory of his world as a toddler?Regardless,the name is just a label.if he was'nt an alien,jonathan wouldn't have asked the guy to hide himself.Clark wouldn't have been racing locomotives.Clark wouldn't be assembling alien or advanced tech.so on and so forth.One does not need to know he is something,to act out the traits of that something.A bird doesn't know it is called a bird by humans .does it?We call it a bird,because it shows certain attributes that we have classified and associated with that term,normally.Clark is an alien,that might looks like us and has certain similarities to us.He might not know what he is.But,he does act out being an alien.

The thing is that in my view Jonathan and Martha were the most humane parents he could have had. They taught him the difficulties of running your own farm, and he in turn understood that by having those powers he would never have the same exaustion as them, and wouldn't need a machine to do the things his parents do. But he still learned to do things as they do. His oarents didn't want him to become an hermit. I imagine that they were very kind people that taught him hoe to be kind, but also taught him the physicsl toll of the human body. And his powers like X-ray vision and Super hearing help him understand others in a way they themselves can't. He can see the brain synapses in people's head when they have a surge of creativity or inspiration, or fear. Yes he is different, but it has nothing to do with Kryptonian Culture.

[Jim Kelly]

Given that Greg Saunders took the name Vigilante and always seemed to be working with law enforcement, I think the name Vigilante has a softer meaning within the comic book reality. It could just be equivalent to mystery man or crimefighter.

[Robanker]

Neither is The Flash, who has his own museum and statue in Central City, but I would still classify him as a vigilante.

Ms. Marvel gets along with the Jersey City police. Would still classify her as a vigilante because she's an unlicensed Superhero fighting crime on her own terms who hides her identity from the public.

When Green Lantern fights crime in Coast City, I view him as a vigilante, even if in space he is basically a duly authorized police officer.

Gordon's trust in Batman is usually pretty validated. There is an immense trust and faith between Bruce and Gordon.

This right here. No DC heroes are hunted by their local law enforcement agencies except a very select few. They break so many laws and criminal justice procedures it feels very silly to draw the line at "but the cops like them so they can't be vigilantes!"

Like bro, Superman throwing a guy at the police and saying "caught this guy robbing a bank" would end with cops legally having to let him go. But they lock him up because the DC Universe operates as a place where **** works around them. Always has been.

Given that Greg Saunders took the name Vigilante and always seemed to be working with law enforcement, I think the name Vigilante has a softer meaning within the comic book reality. It could just be equivalent to mystery man or crimefighter.

It is exactly that, but it sounds edgier so they use it instead. Kind of why comics use "dark knight" instead of "caped crusader."

[manwhohaseverything]

Neither is The Flash, who has his own museum and statue in Central City, but I would still classify him as a vigilante.

Ms. Marvel gets along with the Jersey City police. Would still classify her as a vigilante because she's an unlicensed Superhero fighting crime on her own terms who hides her identity from the public.

When Green Lantern fights crime in Coast City, I view him as a vigilante, even if in space he is basically a duly authorized police officer.

Gordon's trust in Batman is usually pretty validated. There is an immense trust and faith between Bruce and Gordon.

Then the law enforcement is pretty sloppy.No,state would tolerate a parallel system of law taking shape.Especially,If the state is a corrupt one.I don't view any of these guys as vigilantes.The only time barry struggled with vigilante dynamics is in new frontier.Where he was hunted.he basically,quit because of it.Moreover,batman or guys like that can be friends with gordon or any police or authorities on a personal level.But as an officer, he should be against the concept of "the bat-man".I feel that comes through most of the time.His frustrations,i mean.Which is what i meant by "kicking himself".Superman was friends with a couple of cops who did shake hands off-record.Nolan movies had it as well.Anyways,a state and law enforcement as institution normally wouldn't allow or encourage the growth of vigilantism.Because it breeds lawlessnes essentially.Here,i guess because these guys help keep law they are essentially seen as free agents helping out by authorities .I suppose,that's why superman is asked to go on missions and answers to the government itself.I do believe with things like registration act stories,these things that are on background get brought forward more.But,it is flimsy.the writing,i mean.

Yes he is different, but it has nothing to do with Kryptonian Culture.

A fish doesn't need to be taught to swim.Working on a farm or a circus might have solidified clark's conviction.But,that doesn't inform what he is.Clark is humane because kryptonians are humane.They are just like us in many ways.If kryptonians were some sort of predators,clark would have tried to eat jonathan and martha.Jon and martha just gave him a home,love and a family.A thing all children want.

[Robanker]

Then the law enforcement is pretty sloppy.No,state would tolerate a parallel system of law taking shape.Especially,If the state is a corrupt one.I don't view any of these guys as vigilantes.The only time barry struggled with vigilante dynamics is in new frontier.Where he was hunted.he basically,quit because of it.Moreover,batman or guys like that can be friends with gordon or any police or authorities on a personal level.But as an officer, he should be against the concept of "the bat-man".I feel that comes through most of the time.His frustrations,i mean.Which is what i meant by "kicking himself".Superman was friends with a couple of cops who did shake hands off-record.Nolan movies had it as well.Anyways,a state and law enforcement as institution normally wouldn't allow or encourage the growth of vigilantism.Because it breeds lawlessnes essentially.Here,i guess because these guys help the police they are essentially seen as free agents helping out.I do believe with things like registration act stories,these things get brought forward more .I suppose,that's why superman is asked to go on missions and answers to the government.But,it is flimsy.the writing,i mean.

No state would tolerate any of the crap that goes down in superhero comics. Bro. This isn't supposed to be air-tight, it just has to make sense for the world they set up. In this world, the police realize they're out of their depth and let the superheroes help them. That's how it works. If you think that's stupid, may I remind you a man flies while negating Newton's third law and is best friends with a dude who puts on a ring that lets him fly into the sun because he really really wants to. And both of them went to Hell once for sport.

Do you have any idea how long the list of "in the real world it would be like" is? These are science-fantasy mythological stories in a generally contemporary setting based on ideas from the 40s. They never have nor ever will reconcile with the world we live in. Are you kidding me? lol