If superman isn't vigilante,then what is the purpose of the secret identity?

[Frontier]

Then the law enforcement is pretty sloppy.No,state would tolerate a parallel system of law taking shape.Especially,If the state is a corrupt one.I don't view any of these guys as vigilantes.The only time barry struggled with vigilante dynamics is in new frontier.Where he was hunted.he basically,quit because of it.Moreover,batman or guys like that can be friends with gordon or any police or authorities on a personal level.But as an officer, he should be against the concept of "the bat-man".I feel that comes through most of the time.His frustrations,i mean.Which is what i meant by "kicking himself".Superman was friends with a couple of cops who did shake hands off-record.Nolan movies had it as well.Anyways,a state and law enforcement as institution normally wouldn't allow or encourage the growth of vigilantism.Because it breeds lawlessnes essentially.Here,i guess because these guys help the police they are essentially seen as free agents helping out .I suppose,that's why superman is asked to go on missions and answers to the government itself.I do believe with things like registration act stories,these things that are on background get brought forward more.But,it is flimsy.the writing,i mean.

I think Gordon is only initially wary of a concept of Batman before fully accepting and embracing what he can do.

Superheroes aren't realistic enough to where they address too concretely the nature of Superheroes within real world law.

[manwhohaseverything]

I think it's more feasible to term these guys as unofficially state sanctioned free agents,than vigilantes or resistance fighters at the moment.

[Frontier]

I think it's more feasible to term these guys as unofficially state sanctioned free agents,than vigilantes or resistance fighters at the moment.

I guess it depeends on your exact definition of vigilante, but in-universe they usually use vigilante as a short-hand.

[bat39]

Having a double life is not having a personal life.It's essentially faking it.Some would argue it's creepy.Especially,for a flimsy reason as privacy.

How exactly is Clark supposed to have a personal life without a secret identity? How can he go watch a movie or grab a burger? Or go on a date with Lois? Or marry Lois?

Also, how is privacy a 'flimsy' reason for anything?

Regarding the vigilante vs. superhero thing - the New 52 Justice League origin had an interesting take on it. Batman basically suggests that the heroes make the Justice League a formal organization, so that they can be recognized by the government. This would give them a degree of official sanction, which would in turn give them leeway with the authorities in their respective cities/territories (the GCPD for Batman, the Air Force for Green Lantern are the examples given). So maybe the Justice League, which in most iterations enjoys some degree of sanction from the US Government or the UN, gives the heroes some kind of quasi-official status?

Also, another difference between a 'vigilante' like Batman and a 'superhero' like Superman (and I'm using the terms the way DC media tends to use them) is that Superman tends to be more reactive than proactive. He usually swoops in to save someone from jeopardy, or take on some threat that the official authorities can't handle. He's basically the ultimate Good Samaritan. Batman on the other hand actively goes out every night to commit any number of crimes - hacking, breaking & entering, assault etc. - in pursuit of vigilantism which is itself a crime.

[Jim Kelly]

How exactly is Clark supposed to have a personal life without a secret identity? How can he go watch a movie or grab a burger?

If I hadn't gotten off on a tangent, I was going to make this point before that there are plenty of pre-Crisis stories that address Superman losing his Clark Kent identity and/or being out in the open with the public round the clock--and these stories always end up showing that 1) being Superman all the time and being available to the public without restriction makes his life a shambles and 2) Superman needs Clark Kent more than even he realizes. So he always ends up going back to his regular dual identity.

The 80 Page Giant SUPERMAN 197 [G-36]--one of the first Giants I got--reprints "When There Was No Clark Kent" by Jerry Coleman, Curt Swan and Stan Kaye, from SUPERMAN 127 (February 1959)--in which Clark apparently dies and then the Man of Steel decides not to bother with a secret identity and moves in with Jimmy Olsen. This produces a lot of headaches and Superman has Kent show up alive and well.

That story might have been inspired by "The Death of Clark Kent" by Alvin Schwartz, Ira Yarbrough and Stan Kaye, from SUPERMAN 42 (September-October 1946). I read this story first when it was reprinted in the 100 Page Super-Spectacular format SUPERMAN 284. Clark seems to die on an arctic expedition and the Man of Tomorrow creates a new identity for himself and then goes through a revolving door of job opportunities only to fail at each. Meanwhile, Lois is pretty broken up about Clark's death, so the Man of Steel decides to make the reporter return to the living.

And, of course, there's the four issue story of "Who Took the Super Out of Superman?" by Bates, Maggin, Swan and Oksner in SUPERMAN 296 - 299, where the Action Ace tries out living just as Superman and just as Clark Kent. Ultimately he sees that both identities have their perks as well as their disadvantages.

[manwhohaseverything]

How exactly is Clark supposed to have a personal life without a secret identity? How can he go watch a movie or grab a burger? Or go on a date with Lois? Or marry Lois?

everything has a cost.It would just have to be something clark has to bare.he would just need to sign autographs and grab a burger like the fantastic four .

[Jim Kelly]

everything has a cost.It would just have to be something clark has to bare.he would just need to sign autographs and grab a burger like the fantastic four .

But he wouldn't be Clark. He'd be Superman, all the time. And Superman enjoys being Clark Kent. That's one of the few pleasures he allows himself. He sacrifices a lot for the sake of the public good, but let him have this one little thing in his life that lets him feel normal.

[manwhohaseverything]

But he wouldn't be Clark. He'd be Superman, all the time. And Superman enjoys being Clark Kent. That's one of the few pleasures he allows himself. He sacrifices a lot for the sake of the public good, but let him have this one little thing in his life that lets him feel normal.

i believe,lieing and fraud is more hard and more of a sacrifice for a guy like clark than this.This is telling the truth.No lies,No masks,no acts.He would be himself,all the time.Whatever that him maybe,superman or clark or kal It doesn't matter.He would be going out with his family and people would just recognise him.Nobody say he can't do the stuff he normally does.But,he would just be recognised all the time,for better or for worse(paparazzi and all that).That's it.Besides,Normal is overrated,Superman should be super.I fail to see why normal should be empasised.Superman does everything we do but on whole different level.

[bat39]

everything has a cost.It would just have to be something clark has to bare.he would just need to sign autographs and grab a burger like the fantastic four .

But why would he need to bear it?

And if your answer is the "Superman doesn't lie" thing then, no offence, but that's a pretty childish explanation. You're making an argument here for Superman being a full-blown vigilante who uses his powers to take on the authorities and violently take down anyone who stands in his way - but God forbid he lies about his true identity in order to preserve some semblance of a normal life, or protect his friends and family!

[Alpha]

i believe,lieing and fraud is more hard and more of a sacrifice for a guy like clark than this.This is telling the truth.No lies,No masks,no acts.He would be himself,all the time.Whatever that him maybe,superman or clark or kal It doesn't matter.He would be going out with his family and people would just recognise him.Nobody say he can't do the stuff he normally does.But,he would just be recognised all the time,for better or for worse(paparazzi and all that).That's it.Besides,Normal is overrated,Superman should be super.I fail to see why normal should be empasised.Superman does everything we do but on whole different level.

Read Superman: Secret Identity. It's one of the best insights into Clark Kent's perspective on the world.

[manwhohaseverything]

But why would he need to bear it?

And if your answer is the "Superman doesn't lie" thing then, no offence, but that's a pretty childish explanation. You're making an argument here for Superman being a full-blown vigilante who uses his powers to take on the authorities and violently take down anyone who stands in his way - but God forbid he lies about his true identity in order to preserve some semblance of a normal life, or protect his friends and family!

No,it's not superman doesn't lie.It constant lieing.it takes a toll on people.it's not that easy.You are mistaken,I am not arguing for superman being a vigilante(aleast not here).I am saying that was the reasoning.Moreover,the depression was the background for superman's vigilantism.Vigliantism and alienness of clark was background of the secret id.Hence,the reasoning was sound.Now,that reasoning doesn't exist.All that exists is flimsy "I want privacy".He can do the normal stuff while having the recoginition.So,it's no-obrainer that the secret id is of no use.

Read Superman: Secret Identity. It's one of the best insights into Clark Kent's perspective on the world.

I have read it.Clark is sole superpowered individual other than his daughters in the book.The government goes after the dude as well,if i rember(just like original version).He essentially is a outlaw at worst or an anomaly that they need to investigate from goverment's persepective.So,clark is pretty much anomaly in that book.Which he was created to be,i might add.

[Alpha]

I have read it.Clark is sole superpowered individual other than his daughters in the book.The government goes after the dude as well,if i rember(just like original version).He essentially is a outlaw at worst or an anomaly that they need to investigate from goverment's persepective.So,clark is pretty much anomaly in that book.Which he was created to be,i might add.

The reason why I mentioned is because of well it describes Clark's personal life. Him meeting Lois while hanging out with his friends at a bar, him describing his private moments. A lot of these things wouldn't be possible if he was known as Superman. He wouldn't just be a celebrity, he would be the big guy that can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes and lift a whole building with his bare hands. This is why he needs a secret identity, so he can just be a normal person with a normal life.

[Jon Clark]

The reason why I mentioned is because of well it describes Clark's personal life. Him meeting Lois while hanging out with his friends at a bar, him describing his private moments. A lot of these things wouldn't be possible if he was known as Superman. He wouldn't just be a celebrity, he would be the big guy that can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes and lift a whole building with his bare hands. This is why he needs a secret identity, so he can just be a normal person with a normal life.

A favorite moment from the Bronze Age is from "Who took the Super out of Superman". For story reasons Superman is convinced he must decide to be either Clark or Superman fulltime going forward. During a period where he is trying to be Superman 24/7 he does his usual stop by the Planet to regroup between dealing with the "crook-of-the-week". Jim Olsen berates him for not being out actively looking for said crook and says Superman needs to do what he always does to stop these type of guys. Superman thinks to himself that what he always did was spend time as Clark while he worked out a plan.

I can see this on a large scale being a reason for Clark. Clark and Lois have lunch and no one bothers them. Superman has lunch and everyone in the place asks him why he isn't somewhere else dealing with "a job for Superman". It's like the doctor who shows up at a social function and spends all night being asked medical questions ("I have this rash", "Do you think product X really cures condition Y?" ...) who probably wishes no one there knew his profession. Clark's neighbors might wake him up early to borrow a cup of sugar, Superman's wake him up to find their teenager who hasn't called after a night out or to catch the guy who broke into Aunt Esther's car. Poor guy would never have a minute of peace without someone coming to him with a problem- every cancer patient (see Grounded), every government official, every crime victim, ...

[manwhohaseverything]

A favorite moment from the Bronze Age is from "Who took the Super out of Superman". For story reasons Superman is convinced he must decide to be either Clark or Superman fulltime going forward. During a period where he is trying to be Superman 24/7 he does his usual stop by the Planet to regroup between dealing with the "crook-of-the-week". Jim Olsen berates him for not being out actively looking for said crook and says Superman needs to do what he always does to stop these type of guys. Superman thinks to himself that what he always did was spend time as Clark while he worked out a plan.

I can see this on a large scale being a reason for Clark. Clark and Lois have lunch and no one bothers them. Superman has lunch and everyone in the place asks him why he isn't somewhere else dealing with "a job for Superman". It's like the doctor who shows up at a social function and spends all night being asked medical questions ("I have this rash", "Do you think product X really cures condition Y?" ...) who probably wishes no one there knew his profession. Clark's neighbors might wake him up early to borrow a cup of sugar, Superman's wake him up to find their teenager who hasn't called after a night out or to catch the guy who broke into Aunt Esther's car. Poor guy would never have a minute of peace without someone coming to him with a problem- every cancer patient (see Grounded), every government official, every crime victim, ...

Except,he is a doctor.Therefore deals with it.He doesn't create an alias,and sell that to even his friends.He still finds his normal time.Clark is essentially running away from what he is.He is superman.Just like the doctor,it's time we move on to clark dealing with it.I have doctor friends.That's an interesting dynamic than the same old shlock.Clark would have to learn to be normal with all that Noise.I don't know about you,That sounds hella interesting and relatable.Than clark doing same old shtick with reasoning that's poultry,and doesn't even make any sense.

The reason why I mentioned is because of well it describes Clark's personal life. Him meeting Lois while hanging out with his friends at a bar, him describing his private moments. A lot of these things wouldn't be possible if he was known as Superman. He wouldn't just be a celebrity, he would be the big guy that can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes and lift a whole building with his bare hands. This is why he needs a secret identity, so he can just be a normal person with a normal life.

Him meeting lois is inconsequantial,that happened.And it happened decades ago.Nobody would want to keep living a lie for eternity.we are past the third act of the story now.Clark doesn't need to have a double life,people accept him as he is and he isn't an outlaw anymore.I don't think clark ever wanted to live a double life his entire life .I don't know about you but that's fame worthy enough for me.He saves the world by shooting lasers and lifting buildings up.He is just gonna have to learn to be a normal person without the secret identity,now.Like the rest of us.

[Alpha]

Manwhohaseverything
I find you to be a very strange person. Stop giving Superman the "time to grow up" speech. You are obsessed with an outdated version of Clark Kent where he is a caricature and acts overtly cautious and uncoordinated. The version I want is where Clark Kent is just him being himself the humble intelligent and passionate farm boy. Superman is him giving a public speech. Clark Kent is him casually talking to his friends. I think there are a lor of interesting stories that can be told with a public Superman, and I'm not in a hurry to reverse that side of the status quo. But at some point I want an older Clark Kent being able to have discreet conversations with Bibbo without being thought of as a guy that can literally fly and shoot lasers from his eyes, and is simply a journalist or writer.