If superman isn't vigilante,then what is the purpose of the secret identity?

[Digifiend]

I don't really get the "but think of his loved ones" thing. The Kent's just got resurrected from nothingness because Manhattan felt Superman had enough goodboy points saved up, Jason Todd is alive after decades dead because of a reality punch,

I thought Jason was a Lazarus Pit resurrection? His death was post-Crisis, so there was no reality reboot before he came back.

[The World]

Manwhohaseverything
I find you to be a very strange person. Stop giving Superman the "time to grow up" speech. You are obsessed with an outdated version of Clark Kent where he is a caricature and acts overtly cautious and uncoordinated. The version I want is where Clark Kent is just him being himself the humble intelligent and passionate farm boy. Superman is him giving a public speech. Clark Kent is him casually talking to his friends. I think there are a lor of interesting stories that can be told with a public Superman, and I'm not in a hurry to reverse that side of the status quo. But at some point I want an older Clark Kent being able to have discreet conversations with Bibbo without being thought of as a guy that can literally fly and shoot lasers from his eyes, and is simply a journalist or writer.

Jeez the farmer thing again? He wasn't a farmer until Byrne tried to beat him into one and even then he left the farm at 17 under Byrne by the time he'd be in his mid-30's he'd have been Superman longer than he'd been on Ma and Pa's farm.

I thought Jason was a Lazarus Pit resurrection? His death was post-Crisis, so there was no reality reboot before he came back.

He was, the punch shifted events of what occured following DITF making it so either Ra's or Talia resurrected him shortly after his death via lazarus. But either way it just proves my point there's no concept of death in DC. Hell Jor-El alive recently and he was dead for nearly a century.

[Adekis]

Both Clark and Superman are an authentic side of who he is as a person. I think Clark, the reporter, is in some ways a form of self-care and self-actualization. There are versions of Superman who lived for years as a vagrant, using false identities to disguise himself as he moved from job to job, but that always seems pretty miserable to me. Clark allows Superman to be, basically, the version of himself that he would be if he was settled down for a normal life: he's polite, passionate, intellectual, and does the kind of work devoted to improving his community and the larger world.

But... that said, I do think there's an element of the vigilante to Superman. He doesn't ask for permission from entrenched power structures to pitch in. He just goes out there and does it. Whether or not he gets accolades and support from the public, which he largely does, is not actually crucial to his never-ending battle for justice. However... well, I think he could support himself just as Superman, honestly. So I still think that Clark is more a form of self-actualization and self-care than anything else.

[Alpha]

Jeez the farmer thing again? He wasn't a farmer until Byrne tried to beat him into one and even then he left the farm at 17 under Byrne by the time he'd be in his mid-30's he'd have been Superman longer than he'd been on Ma and Pa's farm.

What do you mean he wasn't a farmer until John Byrne?

And him being raised on a farm is very informative of who he becomes. It's there that he learns the hard work of a normal human being and sees how people need to be autonomous and yet still need help. He should also see how even a farmer that lives far away from everything struggles with things like healthcare and etc, but that's just my opinion.

He also learns to care for other lifeforms like animals, but understands that the world he lives in is one where a farmer has to kill a cow, if not for food than at least when they get too old. He can't have a naive view of the saintity of life. I think he had many moments growing where he used hia x ray vision on the cows and studied the inner workings of their body, coming to understand the differences between different animal kingdoms and species but also the similarities.

Plus it's a way for him to have a safe enviroment away from prying eyes and it's where he turns into a fundamentally lonely individual that tries to open up to others both as Clark and as Superman.

These are the fundamental lessons of the Farm for Clark and why you should always mention it when describing who he is.

[manwhohaseverything]

Manwhohaseverything
I find you to be a very strange person. Stop giving Superman the "time to grow up" speech. You are obsessed with an outdated version of Clark Kent where he is a caricature and acts overtly cautious and uncoordinated. The version I want is where Clark Kent is just him being himself the humble intelligent and passionate farm boy. Superman is him giving a public speech. Clark Kent is him casually talking to his friends. I think there are a lor of interesting stories that can be told with a public Superman, and I'm not in a hurry to reverse that side of the status quo. But at some point I want an older Clark Kent being able to have discreet conversations with Bibbo without being thought of as a guy that can literally fly and shoot lasers from his eyes, and is simply a journalist or writer.

Because the outdated version atleast makes sense.Superman was genuine badass.Clark kent was a hidden badass.Which i can't say for your status quo.Really?Superman isn't man of speeches.He is man of action.Remember?Even the version you talk about has superman being a fakery,an act.Which also comes under lieing and fraud.Therefore won't be sustainable for one man's entire life.If bibbo can't look past clark shooting lasers or flying,he is not really a good friend.I am hundred percent sure bibbo is damn good friend.Heck!the guy is more superman for me than clark in postcrisis continuity.The working class dude fight a never ending battle for truth and justice.

What do you mean he wasn't a farmer until John Byrne?

silverage was ambivalent at best.Smallville was suburban part of metropolis.That's silverage version.Clark was'nt farmer from kansas untill donner.Byrne took that and ran with it.
For goldenage,clark was found by motorcyclist in one origin who took him to an orphanage.in the second origin,clark was found by the couple jonathan and mary who took him to an orphanage and later adopted him .Max fleischer superman wasn't raised by kents at all.It was based on the first origin.

[llozymandias]

Because the outdated version atleast makes sense.Superman was genuine badass.Clark kent was a hidden badass.Which i can't say for your status quo.Really?Superman isn't man of speeches.He is man of action.Remember?Even the version you talk about has superman being a fakery,an act.Which also comes under lieing and fraud.Therefore won't be sustainable for one man's entire life.If bibbo can't look past clark shooting lasers or flying,he is not really a good friend.I am hundred percent sure bibbo is damn good friend.Heck!the guy is more superman for me than clark in postcrisis continuity.The working class dude fight a never ending battle for truth and justice.

silverage was ambivalent at best.Smallville was suburban part of metropolis.That's silverage version.Clark was'nt farmer from kansas untill donner.Byrne took that and ran with it.
For goldenage,clark was found by motorcyclist in one origin who took him to an orphanage.in the second origin,clark was found by the couple jonathan and mary who took him to an orphanage and later adopted him .Max fleischer superman wasn't raised by kents at all.It was based on the first origin.

In the first version of his origin it was said that he was found by a passing MOTORIST. Not motorcyclist.

[Alpha]

Read Superman 53 (1948). It tells his origin story and there are two panels where he is working in the farm with Jonathan Kent, using a rake in the farming field. He seems to be a teenager and he gets hit by a tractor. So clearly his parents were farmers at least as far back as 1948 and he helped around the farm. You are twisting history.

What is Clark lying about exactly when he is just having a conversation with his friends? The only person that usually gets manipulated by Clark is maybe Lois, and I think everyone agrees that she should be one of the few people who knows his secret identity by now, specially if they are in a relationship. Superman isn't a fakery either. He doesn't manipulate people as Superman, all he literally does is go to a place, save someone, maybe try to reason with a powerful figure or someone in distress and so on. At no point is he taking advantage of people either as Clark or as Superman. Are you trolling me?

And superman is both a man of action and speeches, read any story by him aside from the Man of Steel movie and it's filled with moments of him talking about morality and the desire to create a better world. I doubt you really forgot all the big speeches Superman has given over the years. But I was using a metaphor for how he acts as Superman versus how he acts as Clark Kent. Superman is formal, unless he is with people he trusts or that know him, and Clark is casual and more personal, aside from maybe calling people mister and miss.

[manwhohaseverything]

In the first version of his origin it was said that he was found by a passing MOTORIST. Not motorcyclist.

you are right.My bad.

Read Superman 53 (1948). It tells his origin story and there are two panels where he is working in the farm with Jonathan Kent, using a rake in the

I have read it.The bill finger origin,right?Yeah!didn't like it at all.As said,silverage was very ambivalent about it.There were other stories from my memory where smallville wasn't much countryside at all(legion superboy stories).

[Alpha]

you are right.My bad.


I have read it.The bill finger origin,right?Yeah!didn't like it at all.As said,silverage was very ambivalent about it.There were other stories from my memory where smallville wasn't much countryside at all(legion superboy stories).

I always thought Smallville and the Kent Farm were distinct places. Smallville is the closest town to the Kent Farm, but it's probably a few miles away and it's a whole different landscape and community.

[Superfamily]

It can also be used to create stories that doesn't require Superman to punch a bad guy. Say Clark looses his pay check as Superman while fighting an enemy. Clark's rent is due and he lost his pay check and his rent is due. Lois is out of town covering another story and she doesn't have the money to pay the rent anyway, Perry are out of town on business and he's busy so he can't cut him a new check and Bruce Wayne is busy as Batman (and is sick and tied of everybody hitting him up for money). He can't go to any of the other JLA members because they don't know his secret ID and he doesn't want to put anyone else risk, the ones that do know his secret identity they're either busy and/or don't have the money to loan him. So now Clark has to work as a bouncer at a seedy nightclub in Metropolis that has some people that are up to no good but Clark can't bust them because he needs the money as a bouncer to cover the rent for his and Lois' apartment.

Now tell me that isn't interesting storyline for a Superman comic.

I loved this plot too much .. I need more lol

[ironman2978]

What do you mean he wasn't a farmer until John Byrne?

And him being raised on a farm is very informative of who he becomes. It's there that he learns the hard work of a normal human being and sees how people need to be autonomous and yet still need help. He should also see how even a farmer that lives far away from everything struggles with things like healthcare and etc, but that's just my opinion.

He also learns to care for other lifeforms like animals, but understands that the world he lives in is one where a farmer has to kill a cow, if not for food than at least when they get too old. He can't have a naive view of the saintity of life. I think he had many moments growing where he used hia x ray vision on the cows and studied the inner workings of their body, coming to understand the differences between different animal kingdoms and species but also the similarities.

Plus it's a way for him to have a safe enviroment away from prying eyes and it's where he turns into a fundamentally lonely individual that tries to open up to others both as Clark and as Superman.

These are the fundamental lessons of the Farm for Clark and why you should always mention it when describing who he is.

Well there were stories in the silver age that had Clark move into Smallville and Pa Kent opening up a convenience store which allowed Clark to interact with school students and live a “normal life” while being Superboy:




But it wasn’t until Donner Superman and the Byrne reboot where the farmers from Kansas element becomes more solidified as part of Clark’s story.

I think while he does grow up on a farm, his mentality shouldn’t solely be that of a farm boy/farmer’s son bc a lot of writers fall into that trap and it kind of hampers on his character more than it helps. I agree Clark is a form of self-care/self-actualization. Even without keeping the Kents past when Clark becomes Superman, Clark allows Superman to actually live and get to interact with people without that added pressure. I feel like that is more interesting that he is not hampered. Action Comics#1 had an moment that I think speaks a lot to Clark’s character: after taking down the actual killer and confronting the governor, he was glad Superman wasn’t mentioned in the newspapers. Despite being a public hero and a man of action, he is someone who enjoys his privacy and some level of secrecy (why keep a fortress of solitude or apartment as Clark). Despite being a hero, Clark is someone who enjoys a level of introverted and being a reporter.

As for Superman, I think even though some versions wouldn’t define him as such (especially when you get to the ideas of him reacting instead of being proactive or deputized by the government or police), he is a vigilante, even though he sometimes work alongside the law, he still works outside of it in many ways to stop crime and help people. The mode of how he does it might vary especially for the public, but I think he tries to carry an look of public defender/champion of the oppressed visual more than say Batman or Daredevil who is more active in the fighting part of “crime-fighting”.

[Alpha]

Well there were stories in the silver age that had Clark move into Smallville and Pa Kent opening up a convenience store which allowed Clark to interact with school students and live a “normal life” while being Superboy:




But it wasn’t until Donner Superman and the Byrne reboot where the farmers from Kansas element becomes more solidified as part of Clark’s story.

I think while he does grow up on a farm, his mentality shouldn’t solely be that of a farm boy/farmer’s son bc a lot of writers fall into that trap and it kind of hampers on his character more than it helps. I agree Clark is a form of self-care/self-actualization. Even without keeping the Kents past when Clark becomes Superman, Clark allows Superman to actually live and get to interact with people without that added pressure. I feel like that is more interesting that he is not hampered. Action Comics#1 had an moment that I think speaks a lot to Clark’s character: after taking down the actual killer and confronting the governor, he was glad Superman wasn’t mentioned in the newspapers. Despite being a public hero and a man of action, he is someone who enjoys his privacy and some level of secrecy (why keep a fortress of solitude or apartment as Clark). Despite being a hero, Clark is someone who enjoys a level of introverted and being a reporter.

As for Superman, I think even though some versions wouldn’t define him as such (especially when you get to the ideas of him reacting instead of being proactive or deputized by the government or police), he is a vigilante, even though he sometimes work alongside the law, he still works outside of it in many ways to stop crime and help people. The mode of how he does it might vary especially for the public, but I think he tries to carry an look of public defender/champion of the oppressed visual more than say Batman or Daredevil who is more active in the fighting part of “crime-fighting”.

I don't think Clark is a "simple man" and if that's what you mean by the mentality of a farmer's son then I see why it bothers you. I think the fact that he can fly and has super eharing and super vision and x-ray vision means that he always had an interest in the world outside the farm, and I think he would've tried to learn as much as possible about the world through literature and maybe through the internet. To me this is the reason why he became a reporter. Not to be on top of every crisis, but because it provided a more informed way for him to contemplate the world. I think he read a lot of philosophy and history in his teenage years, because he wasn't sure what his responsability as Superman should be. So yes, he is more than a farm boy, but I think the way he looks at the world is fueled by how he grew up. And I definitely think him growing up in a farm is the best possible origin for him.

[ironman2978]

I don't think Clark is a "simple man" and if that's what you mean by the mentality of a farmer's son then I see why it bothers you. I think the fact that he can fly and has super eharing and super vision and x-ray vision means that he always had an interest in the world outside the farm, and I think he would've tried to learn as much as possible about the world through literature and maybe through the internet. To me this is the reason why he became a reporter. Not to be on top of every crisis, but because it provided a more informed way for him to contemplate the world. I think he read a lot of philosophy and history in his teenage years, because he wasn't sure what his responsability as Superman should be. So yes, he is more than a farm boy, but I think the way he looks at the world is fueled by how he grew up. And I definitely think him growing up in a farm is the best possible origin for him.

I do agree.

A few of my favorite takes of Superman (Superman: Birthright, American Alien, Last Family of Krypton and It's Superman by Tom DeHaven, even Superman Year One for all its flaws) were depictions that handled Clark like that. A boy who is trying to figure out his place in the world and know he is meant for more but he travels and meets people who help him place the puzzle together That's why Clark the reporter

I think that's why my frustration lies. I do agree Humanity and how Superman is brought up is a big part of his heroic mentality. But it's frustrating when writers who overuses the idea that Clark is more a "human with superpowers and who just happen to be an alien" or Superman is just "Clark in longjohns" when I feel like the Superman identity and personality and also his Kryptonian heritage is more important that that. (or the idea that being a farmer/farm boy implies he is more simplistic and optimistic to the point of near naivety and leads him to be treated to almost joke like proportions). Same with the journalism and reporting is such an important part of Clark, but it seems glossed over and not many writers know how to properly write it other than a place for Clark not to be Superman, interact with Lois and Jimmy and make a lame excuse to run off to become Superman (With the exception of comics like Superman Earth One, Grant Morrison New 52 and Kurt Busiek's take).
Honestly Martin Pasko, one of the Bronze Age Superman writers, brought interesting insight into Clark’s character:

“Superman related most closely to my personal experience. I was adopted from another country at a very young age. My adoptive parents were much older than those of most of my contemporaries. And whether through dotage or any reality, my parents invested upon me from a very early age that I was different -- in a positive sense. At least they tried to spin it as positive. Today, we'd say I was a geek. I was precocious. I had an IQ that I won't quote, but it was very high. I was constantly getting this message that I had to use my gifts for something positive and understand that I was a little different from other kids. That was all subliminal, but you can see the direct parallels to the character, obviously.

Mark Waid and I have talked about this -- I really think it came down to that very personal connection. Where I think it helped me as a comic book writer was in understanding that it is possible to get inside the heads of these fantastic characters and find objective corollaries that you can see in the characters that make them real.

Most of the writers think of Clark Kent as the real person and Superman as this construct. From my point of view, both Clark and Superman are constructs. The real person is Kal-El of Krypton, and whether he knows who that person is depends upon which incarnation of the character you're looking at.

In the very early incarnations of the character, it was similar to what we've seen in the movies where he had this very vague knowledge of where he came from, and at the very beginning of course he had no idea. This knowledge he had was developed over time as they developed the back story on Krypton. I don't think it was until the late '40s that through whatever science fictional device there was, Superman learned about his life of Krypton. Then of course by the late '60s because of all the debris and characters who had somehow coinkydinkily escaped the destruction of Krypton to show up on earth and the bottle city of Kandor and the memory chair he had...as they started to develop these devices for Krypton to be an interesting story setting with all these different places to go, it opened up the stories. He then became totally possessed of a sense [of] this identity of Ka-El of Krypton. You're talking about a universe in which he's got this bottle in his fortress featuring miniaturized extended family members, nevermind Supergirl and Alura and Zor-El and the rest of it. What else could he be?”

https://www.cbr.com/superman-at-75-m...-man-of-steel/
Most stories (New 52, Earth One, Birthright, Superman the movie, Smallville, Superman TAS, etc) fall in the middle of these two ideas of who the real identity and who is the mask between Kal-el/Superman and Clark Kent.

Personally I feel both have gems of truth in the lie Superman puts on to the world. While Clark the reporter is a chance for Superman to save and help people with emphasis on his writing as opposed to his physicality, not to mention the friends and allies he made in his human identity, and the fact that he cares about his career and choosing to help people as a reporter and not just as a means to an end. Where as Superman he can be himself, he doesn’t need to wear a mask, he can say proudly he is an alien and shows off the powers, he uses to do what he loves. It's not only his childhood but his worldly experiences, learning about Krypton and what being a Kryptonian means (especially when Krypton isn’t portrayed as a cold, sterile world). These multiple influences is what influences Clark's mentality and his actions. He is a son of two worlds and both are equal importance to him, especially considering most origins have him having to grow up learning to come to terms with having super powers and being an alien.

He goes by Kal, Clark or Superman. He shouldn’t have to prefer one or another. They all feel real to Clark even when they are a front to keep an image for others.

[Alpha]

I do agree.

A few of my favorite takes of Superman (Superman: Birthright, American Alien, Last Family of Krypton and It's Superman by Tom DeHaven, even Superman Year One for all its flaws) were depictions that handled Clark like that. A boy who is trying to figure out his place in the world and know he is meant for more but he travels and meets people who help him place the puzzle together That's why Clark the reporter

I think that's why my frustration lies. I do agree Humanity and how Superman is brought up is a big part of his heroic mentality. But it's frustrating when writers who overuses the idea that Clark is more a "human with superpowers and who just happen to be an alien" or Superman is just "Clark in longjohns" when I feel like the Superman identity and personality and also his Kryptonian heritage is more important that that. (or the idea that being a farmer/farm boy implies he is more simplistic and optimistic to the point of near naivety and leads him to be treated to almost joke like proportions). Same with the journalism and reporting is such an important part of Clark, but it seems glossed over and not many writers know how to properly write it other than a place for Clark not to be Superman, interact with Lois and Jimmy and make a lame excuse to run off to become Superman (With the exception of comics like Superman Earth One, Grant Morrison New 52 and Kurt Busiek's take).
Honestly Martin Pasko, one of the Bronze Age Superman writers, brought interesting insight into Clark’s character:


https://www.cbr.com/superman-at-75-m...-man-of-steel/
Most stories (New 52, Earth One, Birthright, Superman the movie, Smallville, Superman TAS, etc) fall in the middle of these two ideas of who the real identity and who is the mask between Kal-el/Superman and Clark Kent.

Personally I feel both have gems of truth in the lie Superman puts on to the world. While Clark the reporter is a chance for Superman to save and help people with emphasis on his writing as opposed to his physicality, not to mention the friends and allies he made in his human identity, and the fact that he cares about his career and choosing to help people as a reporter and not just as a means to an end. Where as Superman he can be himself, he doesn’t need to wear a mask, he can say proudly he is an alien and shows off the powers, he uses to do what he loves. It's not only his childhood but his worldly experiences, learning about Krypton and what being a Kryptonian means (especially when Krypton isn’t portrayed as a cold, sterile world). These multiple influences is what influences Clark's mentality and his actions. He is a son of two worlds and both are equal importance to him, especially considering most origins have him having to grow up learning to come to terms with having super powers and being an alien.

He goes by Kal, Clark or Superman. He shouldn’t have to prefer one or another. They all feel real to Clark even when they are a front to keep an image for others.

I suppose I am one of those people who kind of undersells the Krypton aspect because usually people use it to describe Clark as a fundamentaly less comfortable on earth than most people, when I actually feel like it's the opposite. I think it's fascinating that he has all these other senses that we don't have, that allow him to really appreciate on the deepest scale, the infinitesimal nuances of how human beings carry themselves in the world as well as the complex ecosystem in a landscape. He probably has the most wonderous walks any of us could ever had because he can sense nature in so many more layers than us. And I like to think that many times in his life he has used X-ray vision while looking at someone's head and saw the physical phenomena of joy or fear manifesting in the human brain, which is probably what makes him be so fascinated by the experience of others (and I imagine he would write great interviews due to this).

For at least his first 20 years I think this would be all he understood of the world. And by the point he started learning about Krypton he already had experienced so much of life that Krypton could only be a secondary phase of his development as an adult. Even by the point he is 30, I doubt Krypton has much influence on him. But I can understand that when he reaches 40 it would probably have a more intimate value, as he has experienced various aspects of it. I think Krypton would probably have a heavy influence on how he starts to envision the future of the world by the point he is 40, but his moral values were entirely determined by Earth.

[manwhohaseverything]

I always thought Smallville and the Kent Farm were distinct places. Smallville is the closest town to the Kent Farm, but it's probably a few miles away and it's a whole different landscape and community.

Clark's housing wasn't that away either,in the many issues i have read as well.Someone mentioned the store and many stories had clark actually living in metropolis as a superboy and studying.Anways.goldenage didn't emphasise on the parents at all.Why should it?i don't read wonder woman to get a long drawn speech about how the parents made her.heck!i would much prefer strongman circus origin,than rockwellian farmlife nostalgia take.Which is blah!People aren't taking farmer from kansas thing as working man origin which is at the core of superman.He is dude fighting on behalf of common folks.He wasn't an "aw!shucks!" personality.Clark is an alien.No beating around the bush.if kal el wasn't inherently good or if he didn't have certain instincts,ma and pa would be ashes.Moreover,supeman in silverage had photographic memory,he was kal el.That was his all encompassing identity .His stories had criticised humanity as a collective for certain things which it should.The monkey king does it.Humanity can't grow without understanding it's own faults.Superman becoming human has killed his inherent nature and spawned nonesense where superman can't tie his shoes without his ma,pa,lois..etc like injustice.Let's be clear,He looks like us.He is one of us,as he becomes champion of the weak.But,he is not gonna be us.He is moses,not jesus.He is not the framework.He creates the framework.this idea that humanity made him heroic is nonsense.Clark imagined and dreamed of a life back on krypton.Not on earth.Siegel and moore's stories attest to that.Superman if had identify between a human warrior/knight,the gods,the demons and a mythical creature.He would see himself as mythical creature.He would feel a kinship with dragons,centaurs,...etc..It's one of the reason why superman and swamp thing stories are so cool.This white knight boyscout thing is seriously just bad.Why do people want superman to be a captain marvel ripoff is beyond me.