If superman isn't vigilante,then what is the purpose of the secret identity?

[Alpha]

Nobody here has been arguing for a naive simpleton version of Clark Kent. I completely disagree with everything you wrote there. Clark has no recollection of Krypton, why would his main persona be that of an alien? And you are focussing so hard on examples that implied he didn't always live on a farm despite the overwhelming majority still portraying him as being raised there.

I have no interest in a Superman that sees himself as above the people around him, above humanity itself. Your version of Superman has nothing for us to sympathize with. Your description of Superman is much more similar to Wonder Woman then it is to Superman.

It's okay to have your own personal version of this character, but you keep talking in an imposing manner, as if you have uncovered something extraordinary about Superman, when actually you are just describing one of the least complex interpetations of the character. Your Superman has no layers.

And Moore wrote a story where Superman wanted to know what it was like to live in Krypton. But I don't think a Clark Kent that has married Lois Lane and had a kid with her, and is surrounded by friends would want to change anything about his life.

[Robanker]

Nobody here has been arguing for a naive simpleton version of Clark Kent. I completely disagree with everything you wrote there. Clark has no recollection of Krypton, why would his main persona be that of an alien? And you are focussing so hard on examples that implied he didn't always live on a farm despite the overwhelming majority still portraying him as being raised there.

I have no interest in a Superman that sees himself as above the people around him, above humanity itself. Your version of Superman has nothing for us to sympathize with. Your description of Superman is much more similar to Wonder Woman then it is to Superman.

It's okay to have your own personal version of this character, but you keep talking in an imposing manner, as if you have uncovered something extraordinary about Superman, when actually you are just describing one of the least complex interpetations of the character. Your Superman has no layers.

And Moore wrote a story where Superman wanted to know what it was like to live in Krypton. But I don't think a Clark Kent that has married Lois Lane and had a kid with her, and is surrounded by friends would want to change anything about his life.

I agree, he wouldn't change that at all. The black mercy, if nothing else, let Clark selfishly retreat to a simpler life where he didn't have to be the world's champion. Everyone gets hung up on him being with a Kryptonian wife and child and how that reflects on Lois but I don't think they register that he's not Superman. His deepest desire in that story was to be nobody; some guy with a wife, kid and parents. No powers, no great responsibility and no being the last of a dead race. Krypton was the only way to satisfy that; Above all else, Clark just wanted to be a normal person.

Don't get me wrong, it's pre crisis so Kal was the dominant persona at the time, but I still think that holds true.

[manwhohaseverything]

I have no interest in a Superman that sees himself as above the people around him, above humanity itself. Your version of Superman has nothing for us to sympathize with. Your description of Superman is much more similar to Wonder Woman then it is to Superman.

What are you talking?superman has been to krypton on multiple occassions.One of the best stories from siegel is about that.Have you ever heard of lyla lerrol?.He remember his alien life as a toddler.Wonder woman is a warrior archetype who kills creatures like superman.No,to criticise something you don't need to stand above it.You just need to be different.Superman is an alien.Like the monkey king he is different from us.Heck!an ant can be used to criticise humanity.Superman doesn't need anybodies sympathies.He is the guy that does the right thing.I am not trying to be imposing.All i am putting forward is my opinion,bluntly is all.I don't hold humanity on a pedastal nor do i think superman is about that.eh!the guy that goes bland jesus is the guy that has no layers.Correction, moore wrote a story about clarks memories and innermost desires.As for clark not feeling alienation after marriage(thank you for bringing the disscussion back to the topic).Precisley my point he doesn't need to pretend or hide anymore.He can be his own glorious alien self all the time,humanity has grown to accept that.

I agree, he wouldn't change that at all. The black mercy, if nothing else, let Clark selfishly retreat to a simpler life where he didn't have to be the world's champion. Everyone gets hung up on him being with a Kryptonian wife and child and how that reflects on Lois but I don't think they register that he's not Superman. His deepest desire in that story was to be nobody; some guy with a wife, kid and parents. No powers, no great responsibility and no being the last of a dead race. Krypton was the only way to satisfy that; Above all else, Clark just wanted to be a normal person.

Don't get me wrong, it's pre crisis so Kal was the dominant persona at the time, but I still think that holds true.

Actually,lyla was perfect for clark.She had no prejudices.Lois did.She was terrified of kal,in their first meeting.She looked down on clark kent glasses persona,For good reason.There are frightening things about superman and there are things to criticise about clark kent with glasses as well.Lois had to grow into the role.
Prciesly why i separate the three identities as distinctly as possible.That was kal's dreams.Clark's dream would be of simpler life.Superman's dream would be to have a world where the strong didn't exploit the weak.A world where men,women and others are free to make their own choices.Goldenage was about superman,not kal el nor clark kent.Those two identites where side characters.Silverage was kal focused.Post crisis was clark focused.

[Alpha]

I agree, he wouldn't change that at all. The black mercy, if nothing else, let Clark selfishly retreat to a simpler life where he didn't have to be the world's champion. Everyone gets hung up on him being with a Kryptonian wife and child and how that reflects on Lois but I don't think they register that he's not Superman. His deepest desire in that story was to be nobody; some guy with a wife, kid and parents. No powers, no great responsibility and no being the last of a dead race. Krypton was the only way to satisfy that; Above all else, Clark just wanted to be a normal person.

Don't get me wrong, it's pre crisis so Kal was the dominant persona at the time, but I still think that holds true.

Good point. I never thought of it that way

[Alpha]

Actually,lyla was perfect for clark.She had no prejudices.Lois did.She was terrified of kal,in their first meeting.She looked down on clark kent glasses persona,For good reason.There are frightening things about superman and there are things to criticise about clark kent with glasses as well.Lois had to grow into the role.
Prciesly why i separate the three identities as distinctly as possible.That was kal's dreams.Clark's dream would be of simpler life.Superman's dream would be to have a world where the strong didn't exploit the weak.A world where men,women and others are free to make their own choices.Goldenage was about superman,not kal el nor clark kent.Those two identites where side characters.Silverage was kal focused.Post crisis was clark focused.

Those two paragraphs were actually really interesting. So you even see your own opinion as reflective of a specific era of Supermsn stories and mine as reflective of something else. It's great that you prefer that era, I myself don't. But I'm starting to be interested in your whole view of Superman as an elseworld's version. I still hope the canon version is always Clark focussed.

[manwhohaseverything]

Those two paragraphs were actually really interesting. So you even see your own opinion as reflective of a specific era of Supermsn stories and mine as reflective of something else. It's great that you prefer that era, I myself don't. But I'm starting to be interested in your whole view of Superman as an elseworld's version. I still hope the canon version is always Clark focussed.

For me kal and clark are too personal.Their story is about a guy.An alien guy or a kansas guy.It makes little difference.I need more than that to call someone superman.Superman is this great champion of the common folks.
http://www.adrienvanviersen.com/fan-...he-golden-age/
I think i like stories similar to these,you know.I want real heart in superman.Someone who has gone through **** and still is smiling to make us feel safe.

[Robanker]

What are you talking?superman has been to krypton on multiple occassions.One of the best stories from siegel is about that.Have you ever heard of lyla lerrol?.He remember his alien life as a toddler.Wonder woman is a warrior archetype who kills creatures like superman.No,to criticise something you don't need to stand above it.You just need to be different.Superman is an alien.Like the monkey king he is different from us.Heck!an ant can be used to criticise humanity.Superman doesn't need anybodies sympathies.He is the guy that does the right thing.I am not trying to be imposing.All i am putting forward is my opinion,bluntly is all.I don't hold humanity on a pedastal nor do i think superman is about that.eh!the guy that goes bland jesus is the guy that has no layers.Correction, moore wrote a story about clarks memories and innermost desires.As for clark not feeling alienation after marriage(thank you for bringing the disscussion back to the topic).Precisley my point he doesn't need to pretend or hide anymore.He can be his own glorious alien self all the time,humanity has grown to accept that.

Actually,lyla was perfect for clark.She had no prejudices.Lois did.She was terrified of kal,in their first meeting.She looked down on clark kent glasses persona,For good reason.There are frightening things about superman and there are things to criticise about clark kent with glasses as well.Lois had to grow into the role.
Prciesly why i separate the three identities as distinctly as possible.That was kal's dreams.Clark's dream would be of simpler life.Superman's dream would be to have a world where the strong didn't exploit the weak.A world where men,women and others are free to make their own choices.Goldenage was about superman,not kal el nor clark kent.Those two identites where side characters.Silverage was kal focused.Post crisis was clark focused.

Of course she was perfect. It was a fantasy. People aren't fantasies, but that ultimately makes the progress you make with them and they you more meaningful. Lyla was a fabrication meant to satisfy Clark's needs and have none really of her own. She wasn't a person. No actual Kryptonian woman would have been Lyla either.

[manwhohaseverything]

Of course she was perfect. It was a fantasy. People aren't fantasies, but that ultimately makes the progress you make with them and they you more meaningful. Lyla was a fabrication meant to satisfy Clark's needs and have none really of her own. She wasn't a person. No actual Kryptonian woman would have been Lyla either.

It's why that story is that relatable.Superman has never been that vulnerable.For a non-soap scifi action oriented portrayal of superman.Siegel or moore for that matter really does go full romance when it matters.I think zorro influence in the love triangle is very visible.But,siegel generally gave twist to it.He filtered zorro through the eyes of an alien.
And i wouldn't say there aren't people like lyla.But,it wouldn't be a dream.Clark or anyone in a relatioship with her would just have other challenges.Besides,i am of the view that lyla is too good for clark.Lyla tried to jump into fire for kal el.But,kal never had the guts to do the same for her.She was strong enough to confront huge adversity for him.But,he wasn't.He conveniently left her and decided to go back to earth.He didn't love her.

[Quinlan58]

Of course she was perfect. It was a fantasy. People aren't fantasies, but that ultimately makes the progress you make with them and they you more meaningful. Lyla was a fabrication meant to satisfy Clark's needs and have none really of her own. She wasn't a person. No actual Kryptonian woman would have been Lyla either.

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure manwhohaseverything is referring to the actual Lyla from Siegel's Return to Krypton, not the dream one from the Black Mercy.

[manwhohaseverything]

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure manwhohaseverything is referring to the actual Lyla from Siegel's Return to Krypton, not the dream one from the Black Mercy.

This story is the basis for moore's story.It might be kal's dream.But,given kal's mental capabilites and powers having photographic memory.The black mercy takes in everything from kal's mind to create a very powerful simulation.I would say dream lyla might have been real as well,even in that continuity.It's ambiguous.Kal just didn't meet her through time travel this time.He met a close enough replica/simulated version of lyla.Man! that story is like the matrix.Ofcourse,this is just my theory.

[Frontier]

I remember the DCAU made his Black Mercy dream woman a mix of Lois and Lana.

[manwhohaseverything]

I remember the DCAU made his Black Mercy dream woman a mix of Lois and Lana.

Yeah! it did.It even called her loana.They were going for it being a fantasy in entirety.I feel my theory of it being a simulation of krypton created from kal's aka superman's mind makes it more real.what is real anyways,that was an imaginary story.

[Robanker]

What do you mean? I'm pretty sure manwhohaseverything is referring to the actual Lyla from Siegel's Return to Krypton, not the dream one from the Black Mercy.

Well I'm specifically referring to the Black Mercy so I didn't think I needed to qualify she wasn't the other one.

[Primal Slayer]

No secret identity means that anyone could try to harm his loved ones because of who he is.

He can't really be a reporter, being in public should be a horror with everyone constantly wanting to get a picture/autograph/etc...

[Alpha]

No secret identity means that anyone could try to harm his loved ones because of who he is.

He can't really be a reporter, being in public should be a horror with everyone constantly wanting to get a picture/autograph/etc...

He's just a journalist. Nobody tries to take pictures with journalists.